When Defending Cops Becomes Impossible

[sunday]

[Skywalkre]

DOJ finds a plethora of issues with Phoenix PD after three year investigation.

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-finds-civil-rights-violations-phoenix-police-department-and-city-phoenix

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• PhxPD uses excessive force, including unjustified deadly force and other types of force.
• PhxPD and the City unlawfully detain, cite, and arrest people experiencing homelessness and unlawfully dispose of their belongings. This is the first time the Department has found a pattern or practice of conduct that focuses on the rights of people experiencing homelessness.
• PhxPD discriminates against Black, Hispanic, and Native American people when enforcing the law.
• PhxPD violates the rights of people engaged in protected speech and expression.
• PhxPD and the City discriminate against people with behavioral health disabilities when dispatching calls for assistance and responding to people in crisis.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/phoenix-police-routinely-used-excessive-force-and-violated-civil-rights-doj-says

[rmgill]

Ok. How much of that is the Obama style DOJ complaining about necessary aspects of crime suppression? The same DOJ was upset that there was disparity in misbehavior and thus punishment in schools. 

The DOJ has made it a mission to suppress local PD effectiveness across the country. 

[Ivanhoe]

Geniuses on parade;

Typical stupid fucks.

https://www.dailymoth.com/blog/deaf-austin-man-sues-police-after-tasing-incident
 

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Alex: What happened prior to the incident? Kelley and his wife, Mary, and their three children had just gone to a restaurant and were driving when Kelley and his wife had an argument. They pulled the car over and argued outside. John then walked away to a parking lot while Mary followed in a car. A neighbor called the police because they thought the intense argument in ASL was some kind of domestic disturbance.

I asked Kelley in an interview to explain what happened that night.

John Kelley: I was signing and someone in a house called the cops. They dialed 911. The person misunderstood the situation between me and my wife. We were signing wildly. She went away and I walked away. I got frustrated again but decided to calm myself down by walking away. Then it was unexpected. The police cruiser came up very quickly and shined its bright lights on me. The officers ran to me. I said, “I’m deaf.” They tased me. It felt like, it’s hard to say, it was like a surge of shock and I collapsed. They tased me three times very quickly. They also kicked me twice on my side. I tried yelling. The officers then backed away. I was out of breath and it was the first time I’ve ever experienced this.

 

 

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Alex: KSAT News reported that there was no kind of discipline given out to the officers. Their names are Andrew Wisener, Basil Pierce and John Dehkordi.

Kelley sued the city of San Marcos and the three officers alleging violations of his civil rights and that he was discriminated against in violation of the ADA. The suit also accuses the officers of using excessive force. He is being represented by attorneys Rebecca Webber and Scott Hendler. The suit, filed in the U.S. District Court for the Western District of Texas, is asking the court to provide recovery for damages inflicted on the Kelleys in an amount to be determined by the jury.

 

Kelley dropped his federal civil rights suit in exchange for a $125k settlement.

 

[Skywalkre]

15 hours ago, rmgill said:

Ok. How much of that is the Obama style DOJ complaining about necessary aspects of crime suppression? The same DOJ was upset that there was disparity in misbehavior and thus punishment in schools. 

The DOJ has made it a mission to suppress local PD effectiveness across the country. 

There's one complaint where I'm actually sympathetic towards Phoenix PD and that's the one in regards to how they handle individuals with mental breakdowns.  That's an issue that many police departments struggle with because there is no one else out there that can be brought in and such matters default to police who have no training.

Otherwise, the rest of the report is just Phoenix PD being bad at what they do.  For years they've been either at the top or near the top in officer-involved shootings.  Some of those incidents and Phoenix PD's poor handling have been highlighted in this very thread. 

I linked the PBS discussion because they touch on some other blatant issues facing Phoenix PD.  For example Phoenix police have for years apparently been given a lot of leeway and freedom with how they handle traffic violations... and that resulted in police discriminating against minorities (in particular Blacks living in Phoenix which is kind of weird... the Black population in Phoenix is way lower than the national average).  This is a problem of police agencies across the country and some civil rights leaders are now calling for police to no longer handle traffic violations because there's a repeated pattern of harassment and discrimination against minorities.

The bullet points highlight unlawful actions by the department and the PBS discussion touches on more (in particular their treatment of minors where apparently the department is overly rough and routinely fails to read minors their Miranda rights).

All in all... it's not good and Phoenix PD has a lot to be ashamed of.  I'm not holding my breath that they have the decency and professionalism to look at themselves and address the problems.

[rmgill]

Considering the DOJ's stance on the Texas Case with the child sex change operations, I'm a bit skeptical of the DOJ's even-handedness in this. 

I'm open to convincing, but frankly, given the number of very clear case that the DOJ has taken up on the liberal side that were not in fact bad shoots, while ignoring their own (J6 shooting) I'm exceedingly skeptical. And that comes, again I'll note, from seeing decades of the DOJ not policing their own, like the FBI's method of 'recording' statements OR dealing with their own attorneys who violate the canon of ethics. 

[Ivanhoe]

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/justice/3062558/former-uvalde-school-police-chief-indicted-charges-child-endangerment/
 

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The former chief of the school district police for Uvalde, Texas, was indicted over his actions during the Robb Elementary School shooting.

Pete Arredondo was arrested on Thursday and charged with 10 felony counts of abandoning or endangering a child. His arrest is the culmination of two years of intense scrutiny toward the police response to the mass shooting that killed 19 students and two teachers.

“Mr. Arredondo is currently in our custody,” Uvalde County Sheriff Ruben Nolasco told the New York Times.

 

 

[Skywalkre]

5 minutes ago, Ivanhoe said:

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/justice/3062558/former-uvalde-school-police-chief-indicted-charges-child-endangerment/

Given SCOTUS' history of ruling that police don't have an obligation to protect I don't see how this will go anywhere.

[rmgill]

Given that, I don’t know how any democrat can remotely argue for gun control and victim disarmament zones, let alone state level or city level controls that they have stood behind for decades. 

[sunday]

3 hours ago, rmgill said:

Given that, I don’t know how any democrat can remotely argue for gun control and victim disarmament zones, let alone state level or city level controls that they have stood behind for decades. 

Well, they do. That should say something about their reasoning.

[Wobbly Head]

11 hours ago, rmgill said:

Given that, I don’t know how any democrat can remotely argue for gun control and victim disarmament zones, let alone state level or city level controls that they have stood behind for decades. 

 The main aim of gun control is not to control the gun, but to control the people with the gun.

[rmgill]

Well obviously. But they still make noises about 'safety'. 
 

[sunday]

The same way the greenies try to curb CO2 emissions by closing nuclear power plants...

[Murph]

On 6/18/2024 at 11:51 PM, rmgill said:

Considering the DOJ's stance on the Texas Case with the child sex change operations, I'm a bit skeptical of the DOJ's even-handedness in this. 

I'm open to convincing, but frankly, given the number of very clear case that the DOJ has taken up on the liberal side that were not in fact bad shoots, while ignoring their own (J6 shooting) I'm exceedingly skeptical. And that comes, again I'll note, from seeing decades of the DOJ not policing their own, like the FBI's method of 'recording' statements OR dealing with their own attorneys who violate the canon of ethics. 

Agreed here.  I have no tolerance for bad cops, but the DOJ does not have a track record that inspires hope.

[Ivanhoe]

13 hours ago, Wobbly Head said:

 The main aim of gun control is not to control the gun, but to control the people with the gun.

The left is perfectly fine with criminals having guns. They are not fine with regular folks having guns. The 1960s showed that the left is totally fine with political violence, and will deploy criminals to create a climate of fear, reprised in 2020. 

 

[JWB]

 

[Ivanhoe]

8 hours ago, JWB said:

 

Amusingly, the national press and social media are making this case out to be proof of "rural racism." So of course I did a little digging. Results of an exhausting 3 minute googling;

Board of Supervisors:

Sheriff;

Judge Marcus Fisher, the judge who convicted and then overturned her convictions;

County Prosecuting Attorney;

 

 

[NickM]

3 hours ago, Ivanhoe said:

Amusingly, the national press and social media are making this case out to be proof of "rural racism." So of course I did a little digging. Results of an exhausting 3 minute googling;

Board of Supervisors:

Sheriff;

Judge Marcus Fisher, the judge who convicted and then overturned her convictions;

County Prosecuting Attorney;

 

 

by some miracle, I got linked to the WaPo site for the story==I lost IQ points reading all the comments.

[rmgill]

Never read the comments…

[sunday]

[Murph]

Sadly, that is pretty accurate.  I have had armed citizens stop to help me before when I was rolling around in a bar ditch with an ol' boy that did not want to go to jail for kidnapping.  I LOVE armed citizens.  It makes them citizens.  I also love it when we got a call from a homeowner telling us a bad guy broke into their house, please send an ambulance (for the bad guy).  

[rmgill]

1 hour ago, Murph said:

Sadly, that is pretty accurate.  I have had armed citizens stop to help me before when I was rolling around in a bar ditch with an ol' boy that did not want to go to jail for kidnapping.  I LOVE armed citizens.  It makes them citizens.  I also love it when we got a call from a homeowner telling us a bad guy broke into their house, please send an ambulance (for the bad guy).  

A conversation with a GSP officer decades ago on the fact that for him, his nearest backup was a citizen with a gun was what clinched my changing perspective on gun control. Back when I was 20 and still thought as do many liberals. After much contemplation, I realized that there was little positive good any gun control would effect and much wrong, so I adamantly oppose it in all forms. 

 

Edited July 12, 2024 by rmgill

[Ivanhoe]

I'll put this here, though it is about prosecutorial misconduct and not LEO misconduct;

https://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2024/07/12/alec-baldwin-manslaughter-trial-rust/1891720803841/
 

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July 12 (UPI) -- In a surprise development, the judge in Alec Baldwin's manslaughter trial dismissed the case Friday, siding with his lawyers who argued the prosecution failed to turn over vital evidence to the case.

Baldwin's attorneys earlier on Friday filed a surprise motion to have the case thrown out because the state failed to turn over a box of ammunition to the defense that they argued could have been linked to the killing of cinematographer Halyna Hutchins.

Judge Mary Marlowe Sommer then dismissed the jury for the day to allow further review of the defense motion. By 4 p.m., Sommer threw out the case with prejudice, meaning it cannot be brought forward again.

"There is no way for the court to right this wrong," Sommer said. "The sanction of dismissal is the only warranted remedy."

 

 

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A prevailing mystery in the case was how live rounds got mixed up with blanks on the movie set.

Former police officer Troy Teske turned in the batch of rounds the defense accused prosecutors of hiding to the Santa Fe County Sheriff's Office in March.

Teske claimed the rounds came from movie prop supplier Seth Kenney, owner of PDQ Props, and that they could match the bullet that killed Hutchins.

Prosecutor Kari Morrissey argued the rounds Teske turned over did not match the rounds found on set because the primers were different colors.

 

The above statement pretty much convicts the prosecutor of trying to frame Baldwin. The prop supplier could easily have used an assortment of primers in manufacturing real ammo as well as blanks.

 

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Poppell on Thursday also testified live rounds were found in several other places on the movie set, including in another actor's bandolier, the prop cart for the film, an ammo box and two gun holsters, one of which was Baldwin's.

 

[bojan]

3 hours ago, Stefan Fredriksson said:

I think I know the answer, but - do not actors have any responsability at all concerning handling firearms/weapons on set?

I can only say locally - Unless they did something intentionally with a firearm (like, changing ammo loaded etc) - no. It  is up the armorer. how firearms scenes are done (from 15y/o memory, so some things might be missed):

- director discusses scene with armorer including how it can be done in the safe manner

- armorer and director brief actors, then rehearse scene with them using non-guns (dedicated props previously, mostly airsoft nowadays). Props are in general used whenever it is possible, like guns in holsters that will not be used etc.

- armorer prepares weapons, checks them multiple times for any dangerous things (like crud in the barrel that can become projectile), hands them to actors. In case of actors needing to reload he also gives them magazines/rounds etc.

- scene is shot, armorer takes guns from actors.

- neither actors nor extras are allowed to carry real guns off set or wherever they go. They are only "issued" real guns for a specific scene.

[Murph]

While I do not like it, I can absolutely applaud this judge for not letting the Proscutors act like the DOJ/FBI and lie, and hide evidence.  It was the only right call the judge could make.  

 

My buddy who is a long term cameraman on such things as NCIS: New Orleans, etc, says that actors are generally trusting of the armorer and directors about guns, but Baldwin was jacking around and not using safe gun handling.  Plus he has other culpability.  

But as I said it was the only right call that could be made.  Cops and Prosecutors HAVE to play by the rules, as much as that sucks at times.