When Defending Cops Becomes Impossible

[rmgill]

I am beginning to think there's a use of force training issue in thayt county. This is the same one with the squirrelly officer who 'shot at the drop of an acorn'. 

This case looks like some form of flavor of manslaughter at least. 

[Murph]

Words from my first Sheriff that were so accurate:  "Use your common sense, it will keep you out of trouble".  

[Murph]

Perhaps there might be a second side to this story other than the "EVIL COP MURDERS POOR BLACK MAN".   It is probably better to wait a bit.   Oh crap, as soon as Ben Crump shows up, he is an attention whore who has an agenda.  Anything coming out of him is about as credible as Al Sharpton.

 

 

[rmgill]

Do we have clarification as to what the nature of the call really was? With the weapon not presented/aimed, is that a lawful use of deadly force? 

[Ivanhoe]

Apparently the po-po was responding to a 911 call about a domestic, and went to the wrong apartment. Victim was home alone and was facetiming with his GF when he got shot.

 

If we lived in a sane world, the responding officers would be up for either voluntary manslaughter or 2nd degree murder, but we don't live in a sane world.

[Ivanhoe]

https://baynews9.com/fl/tampa/ap-online/2024/05/11/experts-say-gun-alone-doesnt-justify-deadly-force-in-fatal-shooting-of-florida-airman

Quote

The deputy, whose name and race haven't been released, bangs on Fortson’s door, pauses, then knocks again, yelling that he’s from the sheriff’s office. Fortson eventually answers the door while holding what appears to be a gun by his side pointed at the ground. Within a few seconds, the deputy shoots Fortson six times, only then yelling for him to drop his weapon.

 

[Ivanhoe]

 

[Skywalkre]

Got some doozies this week!

Quote

An officer was called to help a blind, deaf dog. He shot him instead.

Teddy, a 13-pound pet, had escaped his outdoor kennel and was found by a neighbor. Residents are furious with the city, which found no wrongdoing.

Teddy, a fluffy, 13-pound white Shih Tzu mix, stumbled around a stranger’s yard. Deaf and blind, he used his nose as a guide, eventually lying down in the grass.

 

He was lost. But the stranger gave him water. He licked her hand and leg, spending the next 45 minutes of the sunny Sunday lolling in the expansive Sturgeon, Mo., yard.

 

Then a police officer pulled up. Within minutes, he had fired two shots. Teddy, a beloved 5-year-old pet, was left lifeless. His owner, 35-year-old Nick Hunter, found out through a phone call that his playful, sock-eating dog had been killed.

...

The officer’s actions — shooting a pet after being summoned to help locate its owner — have led to outrage in the 900-person town 20 miles north of Columbia, Mo. Hunter said he is contemplating legal action, while other angered residents have pledged to pack an upcoming city meeting.

...

The city said Thursday that after reviewing the incident, it determined Woodson acted appropriately. Neither the city nor the police department responded to The Washington Post’s questions about why the officer used deadly force.

...

a resident came home to find Teddy in her unfenced yard that backs into a large field — by then the two dogs had separated. The woman, who has not been publicly identified and declined an interview request from The Post, said in a letter to the city she noticed the dog was at least partially blind and confused.

 

That’s when she got him water and coaxed him to lie on the ground next to her. She tried searching on Facebook for his owner but nothing turned up. So she called the police for help. She was worried Teddy could wander off or be hit by a car.

The dispatcher asked if the dog was aggressive.

 

“No, not at all,” she told them, according to the letter.

 

Then she went inside as the police department — which has just a handful of officers — sent Woodson to help. Body-cam footage obtained by local news outlet ABC 17 shows the officer attempting to corral Teddy with a catch pole for several minutes. The dog does not appear to try to bite the officer.

Five minutes into the video, Woodson opens fire.

 

The woman came outside to confront the officer about why he would shoot the dog — especially without warning, especially in a quiet neighborhood with children playing nearby.

“I cannot stress enough that this animal was in no way a threat to others!” the letter said.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2024/05/24/missouri-police-kill-blind-dog/

It gets even better when you read the ham-fisted responses the town posted on their FB page to justify the actions (you can see them here and here).  The second one is particularly comical as they point out he made the right call... and then after pointed out he didn't have the training to make the call but everyone in the force will be getting that soon!

I hope the owner follows through with legal action... but all that means is the taxpayers (including him) foot the bill while the cop (and town leadership) would likely face no real punishment.

[Skywalkre]

And the other one...

Man does the reasonable thing and reports his father missing.  Police put him through 17h interrogation, threaten to kill his dog, all to get him to confess to a crime that never happened.  Again, the city (taxpayers) will be shelving out money for this clusterfuck... but what punishment for these garbage detectives?

Quote

Police pressured him to confess to a murder that never happened. Now, Fontana will pay him $900,000

The city of Fontana has agreed to pay nearly $900,000 to settle a federal lawsuit filed by a man who said police pressured him to falsely confess to a murder that never happened.

During a 17-hour interrogation in August 2018, Fontana Police Department officers questioned Thomas Perez Jr. about the disappearance of his father, whom Perez had reported missing. Officers alleged Perez had murdered his father and, when Perez denied the accusation, officers tried to convince him that he had forgotten the crime, according to a federal lawsuit, court records and video of the interrogation.

Throughout their lengthy questioning of Perez, officers used a variety of tactics aimed at goading him into confessing. They brought his dog into the interrogation room, told him the dog had walked through blood and would be sent away to be euthanized. They drove Perez to a dirt lot and asked him to walk around in search of his dad’s body. They told him that his father’s body was in a morgue.

“You murdered your dad,” one of the officers said, according to video of the interrogation. “Daddy’s dead because of you.”

The officers told Perez that he would have “closure” if he told them what happened. Perez repeatedly told them that he didn’t know.

“Stop lying to yourself,” officers told Perez.

Perez, who was distressed, visibly sleep-deprived and later testified that he had been denied medication for depression and other mental disorders, sobbed during the interview. At one point he tore out his hair and ripped open his shirt. When officers stepped out of the room, he tied his shoestrings around his neck in an attempt to hang himself, records and video show.

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2024-05-24/police-pressured-him-to-confess-to-a-murder-that-never-happened-now-fontana-will-pay-him-900-000

[Murph]

The should be fired, and prosecuted for civil rights violations.  But it is California, so they were probably card carrying democrats, so nothing will happen.

[rmgill]

Now do Bryan Malinowski. 

[Skywalkre]

Hadn't heard of that case.  Why didn't you post it?

Quote

What Set the A.T.F. and an Airport Leader on the Path to a Deadly Encounter?

Bryan Malinowski was the executive director of the airport in Little Rock, Ark., and sold firearms at gun shows. Federal agents believed he was breaking the law.

The loud noises outside their bedroom door woke them before dawn. Bryan Malinowski bolted up and looked at his wife, Maer. “Stay back,” she remembers him saying after he reached into a drawer for his gun and loaded it.

He crept into a hallway in their home in Little Rock, Ark., and saw figures in the darkness. He started shooting, and was met with return fire.

The people shooting back at him were agents with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, executing a search warrant on suspicion that Mr. Malinowski had repeatedly sold guns without a license. What made this different from many such confrontations was that Mr. Malinowski was a respected official in the community, the director of Little Rock’s airport.

Mr. Malinowski shot an agent in the foot. As the agents fired back, a bullet struck Mr. Malinowski, 53, in the head, and two days later, he died in a hospital. His death has been met with outrage by his family, friends and gun rights supporters in Arkansas and beyond, who say the raid on March 19 was ill-conceived, unnecessary and a shocking case of government overreach.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/24/us/bryan-malinowski-arkansas-atf-guns.html

Looks like another clear example of law enforcement relying on tactical teams using forced entry when such methods are not necessary.  As a result this man died taking reasonable and legal measures to defend his family.  We're long past the point where folks up in DC need to address this.

[Ivanhoe]

Nothing more honest and above-board than Fed assault troops covering a doorbell camera before a dynamic entry.

 

[Skywalkre]

12 hours ago, Ivanhoe said:

Nothing more honest and above-board than Fed assault troops covering a doorbell camera before a dynamic entry.

 

Local police banging on a door/ringing the doorbell and then moving out of sight of a peephole are no better.  That can end up with confused and concerned residents showing up at the door armed and poorly trained police killing them.  That got the Airman killed in FL recently and there was a similar case here in the Valley with the same result.

Btw, that incident here in the Valley resulted in no charges against the cops.  If I were a betting man I would say the cop in FL has nothing to worry about as well...

[JWB]

 

[Skywalkre]

We have our own issues here in the States with LEOs sexually assaulting children.  WaPo did a piece weeks ago where they highlight their own investigation discovered over 1800 LEOs were accused of sexually assaulting minors in the US in the last two decades.  It was behind a paywall for the longest time but now appears to be accessible to everyone.

All this focus on sites like TN about the dangers of the LGBTQ+ community towards kids... and the whole time the biggest concern might have been police (and religious leaders from what a friend is telling me).

[rmgill]

6 hours ago, Skywalkre said:

Local police banging on a door/ringing the doorbell and then moving out of sight of a peephole are no better.  That can end up with confused and concerned residents showing up at the door armed and poorly trained police killing them.  That got the Airman killed in FL recently and there was a similar case here in the Valley with the same result.

Btw, that incident here in the Valley resulted in no charges against the cops.  If I were a betting man I would say the cop in FL has nothing to worry about as well...

So you grasp that police serving warrants should be obvious and overt. 

Ok. So why should the FBI not adhere to this concept? 

[Skywalkre]

1 hour ago, rmgill said:

So you grasp that police serving warrants should be obvious and overt. 

Ok. So why should the FBI not adhere to this concept? 

I think I've been pretty consistent over the years that all law enforcement use tac teams and procedures like no-knocks far too much.  That everyday police behavior is aimed to protect themselves against the 0.0001% happening while putting average Americans responding appropriately in far more danger and that that shouldn't be because they're not above us.

And before you try... what happened in Mar-a-Lago doesn't fit into any of this (and we already have a thread for that).

Edited May 27, 2024 by Skywalkre

[rmgill]

36 minutes ago, Skywalkre said:

I think I've been pretty consistent over the years that all law enforcement use tac teams and procedures like no-knocks far too much.  That everyday police behavior is aimed to protect themselves against the 0.0001% happening while putting average Americans responding appropriately in far more danger and that that shouldn't be because they're not above us.

Sorry. Federal agents don't get a pass and aren't special. They should be held to a higher standard. They're held to a LOWER standard. 

The ATF has a habit of going after EASY cases but doing so in a very HEAVY hand. FBI is even more lax. 

As Emily says, in this day and age, federal agents should not be executing no knock warrants without body cams. 

ATF, FBI, Customs, IRS, etc. 
 

36 minutes ago, Skywalkre said:

And before you try... what happened in Mar-a-Lago doesn't fit into any of this (and we already have a thread for that).

Yes. Because the federal and state level charges of Trump have been VERY even handed. The wiretaps and investigation was all predicated upon lawfully found evidence right? Right? 

Edited May 27, 2024 by rmgill

[Skywalkre]

44 minutes ago, rmgill said:

Sorry. Federal agents don't get a pass and aren't special.

Never said they did.  🙄

[rmgill]

17 minutes ago, Skywalkre said:

Never said they did.  🙄

So when are we going to see the DOJ prosecutions for the wrongful wiretaps of Trump and the falsely articulated criminal investigation? 

You say they aren't yet, the current pattern of political prosecutions and protections of certain people indicates that they ARE. 


 

Edited May 28, 2024 by rmgill

[R011]

So did the FBI sneak up to the main building under cover then suddenly rush forth and batter down the front door, guns drawn and shouting incoherently or did they just walk up to the door, knock, and identify themselves with weapons holstered?

[rmgill]

If they had not coordinated with the Secret Service if they’d walked up and bulled through it would have been bad. 

[R011]

1 hour ago, rmgill said:

If they had not coordinated with the Secret Service if they’d walked up and bulled through it would have been bad. 

Because Secret Service or Trump's private security would have started a gun fight with FBI agents knocking at the door and then just coming in?  Are his security that stupid or suicidal?

And I'm taking this as a tacit acknowledgment that the FBI did, in fact, knock on the door rather then try some more kinetic approach.

Edited May 28, 2024 by R011

[rmgill]

4 minutes ago, R011 said:

Because Secret Service or Trump's private security would have started a gun fight with FBI agents knocking at the door and then just coming in?  Are his security that stupid or suicidal?

Yes. Police have NEVER been confused and shot at people in plain clothes who asserted authority without clear declarations. 

Within the same department, where they KNOW they have an under cover. 
 

4 minutes ago, R011 said:

And I'm taking this as a tacit acknowledgment that the FBI did, in fact, knock on the door rather then try some more kinetic approach.

Probably because someone had a brainwave and a moment of sanity. The FBI is NOT noted for informing local police.