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Ambush In Niger


Burncycle360
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Regarding the events in Niger, I'm sure most info is still unavailable due to OPSEC, a few things struck me from the news articles I've been looking at.

 

According to one CNN Article, the Niger government does not permit airstrikes in it's territory, and per Lemonde, "Des avions de chasse Mirage 2000 ont décollé mais n’ont pas tiré « en raison de l’imbrication au sol », a précisé Patrick Steiger." but I'm not sure what that translates to specifically. Difficulty telling friend from foe due to the terrain?

A couple of articles mentioned that these sorts of patrols occur routinely and contact was not expected, but regardless as a matter of protocol (and protecting valuable assets) I'm surprised that US Special Forces do not ALWAYS have some sort of higher supporting arms on call (and I don't mean the French) even if it means they have to bring their own.

Edited by Burncycle360
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A couple of articles mentioned that these sorts of patrols occur routinely and contact was not expected, but regardless as a matter of protocol (and protecting valuable assets) I'm surprised that US Special Forces do not ALWAYS have some sort of higher supporting arms on call (and I don't mean the French) even if it means they have to bring their own.

One interview I caught regarding this the retired General that they had on said these teams are now all over the world and implied they're stretched pretty thin. My question after seeing what he had to say coupled to your question is is it feasible to always have something in the wings for these guys just in case?

 

During said interview they mentioned drones but I'm not up to date on what the latest ones carry. How useful would a drone with a few hellfires be in a situation like what (given we don't know much) happened to this team?

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According to one CNN Article, the Niger government does not permit airstrikes in it's territory,

Since when US&Co are asking for permission to bomb something somewhere? When was permission given by Syrian Gov for US airstrikes (and troops) on Syria territory?

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According to one CNN Article, the Niger government does not permit airstrikes in it's territory,

Since when US&Co are asking for permission to bomb something somewhere? When was permission given by Syrian Gov for US airstrikes (and troops) on Syria territory?

 

It might have something to do with France wanting to exercise control in IT's sphere of influence.

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A couple of articles mentioned that these sorts of patrols occur routinely and contact was not expected, but regardless as a matter of protocol (and protecting valuable assets) I'm surprised that US Special Forces do not ALWAYS have some sort of higher supporting arms on call (and I don't mean the French) even if it means they have to bring their own.

One interview I caught regarding this the retired General that they had on said these teams are now all over the world and implied they're stretched pretty thin. My question after seeing what he had to say coupled to your question is is it feasible to always have something in the wings for these guys just in case?

 

During said interview they mentioned drones but I'm not up to date on what the latest ones carry. How useful would a drone with a few hellfires be in a situation like what (given we don't know much) happened to this team?

 

A drone on the scene could have provided eyes in the sky to eliminate the surprise.

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According to one CNN Article, the Niger government does not permit airstrikes in it's territory,

Since when US&Co are asking for permission to bomb something somewhere? When was permission given by Syrian Gov for US airstrikes (and troops) on Syria territory?

 

 

The US acts differently when we actually want to keep the approval of the government in whose nation we are operating. In Syria, by contrast, the government will never like the US because of American support for Israel.

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A couple of articles mentioned that these sorts of patrols occur routinely and contact was not expected, but regardless as a matter of protocol (and protecting valuable assets) I'm surprised that US Special Forces do not ALWAYS have some sort of higher supporting arms on call (and I don't mean the French) even if it means they have to bring their own.

One interview I caught regarding this the retired General that they had on said these teams are now all over the world and implied they're stretched pretty thin. My question after seeing what he had to say coupled to your question is is it feasible to always have something in the wings for these guys just in case?

 

During said interview they mentioned drones but I'm not up to date on what the latest ones carry. How useful would a drone with a few hellfires be in a situation like what (given we don't know much) happened to this team?

 

A drone on the scene could have provided eyes in the sky to eliminate the surprise.

 

 

It would probably depend on how expansive / far their AO is. Scaneagle is trailer launch and recovery, can get out to 55+ miles from the GCS, and has a loiter time of 20-24 hours. In addition to thermals some variants even include a laser designator and commo relay. Even a single 120mm tube with PGMs wouldn't be outside of the relm of SOCOM I would think, though the range would be limited. EXACTOR (Trailer mounted Spike NLOS) would reach out to 25km. Any of these would have a relatively small footprint (politically and literally), but of course you'd have to protect these assets as well. Not that a technological solution is going to be a cure-all at all, but as we're not privy to operational procedure it's easy to focus on a tangible asset even if not a panacea it's another tool in the toolbox.

 

Of course there's the practical side of it -- a lot of time and resources have been spent training and maintaining these guys after all, but even relatively low risk operations should have some sort of organic, on call support just on principle IMO. And maybe they do, I'm sure we're just getting a glimpse of the story.

Edited by Burncycle360
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Regarding the events in Niger, I'm sure most info is still unavailable due to OPSEC, a few things struck me from the news articles I've been looking at.

 

According to one CNN Article, the Niger government does not permit airstrikes in it's territory, and per Lemonde, "Des avions de chasse Mirage 2000 ont décollé mais n’ont pas tiré « en raison de l’imbrication au sol », a précisé Patrick Steiger." but I'm not sure what that translates to specifically. Difficulty telling friend from foe due to the terrain?

 

A couple of articles mentioned that these sorts of patrols occur routinely and contact was not expected, but regardless as a matter of protocol (and protecting valuable assets) I'm surprised that US Special Forces do not ALWAYS have some sort of higher supporting arms on call (and I don't mean the French) even if it means they have to bring their own.

From what I heard the other day on one news broadcaster, the French couldn't bomb, because they couldn't identify which were Jihadis and which were American soldiers.

 

Sounds like a command and control fuckup to me.

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A couple of articles mentioned that these sorts of patrols occur routinely and contact was not expected, but regardless as a matter of protocol (and protecting valuable assets) I'm surprised that US Special Forces do not ALWAYS have some sort of higher supporting arms on call (and I don't mean the French) even if it means they have to bring their own.

One interview I caught regarding this the retired General that they had on said these teams are now all over the world and implied they're stretched pretty thin. My question after seeing what he had to say coupled to your question is is it feasible to always have something in the wings for these guys just in case?

 

During said interview they mentioned drones but I'm not up to date on what the latest ones carry. How useful would a drone with a few hellfires be in a situation like what (given we don't know much) happened to this team?

A drone on the scene could have provided eyes in the sky to eliminate the surprise.

Only if you had the support structure in country, unless you are talking about the backpack UAVs. Would still need permission to operate them from the host nation.

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More info:

 

During the Pentagon briefing Monday, Dunford clarified that the US troops requested additional support about an hour after the firefight began.

Remotely piloted aircraft arrived overhead within minutes of the request for help. French Mirage jets arrived on the scene approximately one hour later -- two hours after the troops made initial contact with enemy forces.
"It's important to note when they didn't ask for support for that first hour, my judgment would be that that unit thought they could handle the situation without additional support," Dunford said. "And so well we'll find out in the investigation exactly why it took an hour for them to call."

http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/23/politics/dunford-niger-ambush-briefing/index.html

 

So there was a drone but the team did not keep it over head during the operation.

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Well, NPR had a reporter weigh in with a bunch of clueless questions. One of which was why do we have troops there at all? Seriously does NPR keep it's reporters hidden away in large boxes under the building?

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Well, NPR had a reporter weigh in with a bunch of clueless questions. One of which was why do we have troops there at all? Seriously does NPR keep it's reporters hidden away in large boxes under the building?

Must be the same box we keep our congresscritters. Many of them claim not to have known.

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Was it an armed drone able to do more than bear witness?

Does it really matter? The only reason for a drone to carry ordnance is if it is the only platform that can do so. The Greenies were armed to the teeth and would have ambushed the ambush themselves if they were warned in time.

 

BTW the Niger campaign was started by Obama.

https://www.strategypage.com/on_point/20171024222112.aspx
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  • 4 months later...

 

ISIS video that include footage from killed US servicemen headcams of their last stand

18+

 

This video has been removed for violating YouTube's policy on violent or graphic content.

 

Yes, seems like it was removed

Here is shorter version

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=13&v=-EkGYJFegjo

Ignore "urban combat" soundtrack - it is not original (original ISIS was with arabic spiritual thong as background). Some parts are cut off - as far as i remember the very begining (with photos from operatives posing for camera) and very end where it looks like ISIS shooting on dead bodies , and corpses itself

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Should be required viewing for Team leaders, senior Commanders and the politicians that suggest these types of missions.

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Actually not clear for me what happened.
It is not classic road ambush as we see two vehicle convoy-Toyota LC-105 (?) and Toyota LC-78 (?)- stopped while traveling cross-country, with no road. There is no intensive enemy fire initially (no single window in the car broken), operatives seems like not particularly worried by it (one driving the car back and forward, two others covering behind the car on foot) - were they unwilling to abandon the car since it was long-range communication station on it and without the car they will loose ability to communicate to HQ? After some time one operative is shot (by sniper?) two others were trying to help him but after finding him dead decided to move out by foot (told by HQ air support will not come soon enough and they are on their own?) but seems like shot in process....
As for me it looks like best option for them was not standing on the open under fire, but speeding away.

 

P.S. Another version of this video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=300&v=MQmtn3IlDqE

Edited by Roman Alymov
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