Heinkel 219 Recovered Off Denmark.

[Stuart Galbraith]

This happened about 5 years ago, but first decent photographs ive seen of it. After the example being restored in the US, this is the only surviving example known. Clearly it needs a bit of work.

http://www.danas-have.dk/He219.htm

Edited October 1, 2017 by Stuart Galbraith

[Stuart Galbraith]

Whilst im at it, here are some user manuals for it. The one describing the 'jazz music' installation is particularly interesting.

http://www.germanluftwaffe.com/archiv/Dokumente/ABC/h/Heinkel/Heinkel%20AG.htm

[Markus Becker]

"Clearly it needs a bit of work."

 

A bit of necromancy here and there and she's good to go again.

[Dawes]

Is something in that condition even capable of being restored?

[Stuart Galbraith]

It depends how you define restoration. I mean you could clean that up and put it in a museum as it is. Or you could do as some British warbird restorers did with the Dunkirk Spitfire, take the original wreckage, measure and remake it, and reuse any components as appropriate.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3057575/Spitfire-shot-Dunkirk-discovered-buried-Calais-beach-40-years-later-auctioned-2-5million-fully-restored.html

 

Its getting to the stage where what you have is effectively a replica. But its not, because its can display continuity with the original. Its mushy ground, and perhaps a court case one day will upset the applecart as it did with car restoration.

 

I posted this on the Lufthansa 737 thread, and it just goes to show what you can do. If anything, the Condor was seemingly in even worse condition than this, now look at what they have done with it.

https://www.dlbs.de/en/Projects/Focke-Wulf-Condor/

[DougRichards]

It depends how you define restoration. I mean you could clean that up and put it in a museum as it is. Or you could do as some British warbird restorers did with the Dunkirk Spitfire, take the original wreckage, measure and remake it, and reuse any components as appropriate.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3057575/Spitfire-shot-Dunkirk-discovered-buried-Calais-beach-40-years-later-auctioned-2-5million-fully-restored.html

 

Its getting to the stage where what you have is effectively a replica. But its not, because its can display continuity with the original. Its mushy ground, and perhaps a court case one day will upset the applecart as it did with car restoration.

 

I posted this on the Lufthansa 737 thread, and it just goes to show what you can do. If anything, the Condor was seemingly in even worse condition than this, now look at what they have done with it.

https://www.dlbs.de/en/Projects/Focke-Wulf-Condor/

 

Sounds like the HMS Victory

[Stuart Galbraith]

Kinda. There is quite a lot of HMS Victory left that is original. Or at least, original, to the rebuild in 1814. According to one book on her, most of the Trafalgar victory disappeared then during a refit, mainly because she had been shot to bits in 1805 and they just patched her up. She was after all something like 35 years old before she even went to Trafalgar.

 

You go below decks and you can feel that its REALLY old. And at least one of her sails from 1805, shot full of holes, still exists. So there isnt much, but what there is you can make a case for it being the same ship just from the longevity of it.

 

 

Looked at another way, Im told that every cell in the human body supposedly changes every 7 years. But its still the same you, if you see what I mean.

[DougRichards]

Kinda. There is quite a lot of HMS Victory left that is original. Or at least, original, to the rebuild in 1814. According to one book on her, most of the Trafalgar victory disappeared then during a refit, mainly because she had been shot to bits in 1805 and they just patched her up. She was after all something like 35 years old before she even went to Trafalgar.

 

You go below decks and you can feel that its REALLY old. And at least one of her sails from 1805, shot full of holes, still exists. So there isnt much, but what there is you can make a case for it being the same ship just from the longevity of it.

 

 

Looked at another way, Im told that every cell in the human body supposedly changes every 7 years. But its still the same you, if you see what I mean.

 

Except brain cells, so I am zero age at the moment......

[Stuart Galbraith]

[Stuart Galbraith]

This was pretty good too. Amazingly this aircraft has now been restored to flight.

[MiloMorai]

If this is the same a/c, it was found in 2011, http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=27318&highlight=he219+found

[mattblack]

The He-219 at the Udvar Hazy Center outside of DC had its wings rolled out recently. It's a great looking plane.

[Stuart Galbraith]

If this is the same a/c, it was found in 2011, http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=27318&highlight=he219+found

 

Thats the one. I just posted this up because its the first time I found decent photos of the wreck, and I figured you all might find it interesting.

 

Would have done better to have given it to the Norwegians on evidence of this. Mind you, they had a good aircraft to start with.

 

http://www.ju88.net/

[klahtinen]

I was looking this Spitfire two weeks ago. A very beautfilully restored aircraft.

[Stuart Galbraith]

Yeah, you can pretty much build Spitfires from scratch these days. The only reason people dont is that they cost more to built than the value of them, so they need a historical basis, no matter how minor. There is a Hawker Hurricane that was restored form a wreck in Mumbai, that is at best about 30 percent original. But its still near priceless because its an aircraft they could prove flew in the Battle of Britain.

 

There are several Commonwealth nations that can also build Mosquitos nearly from scratch. They need original undercarriage and powerplans, but as far as fuselages and wings they can build it entirely from scratch. They had to build replica jigs from measurements and drawings, but there is no real limit to building them, as long as you have money to spare.

[MiloMorai]

The Mosquito has been built from scratch lately.

[Stuart Galbraith]

I think that was just the wooden structure. Most of the sub components (undercart, engines, radiator) I think they had from a donor aircraft, or so the Haynes book on the Mosquito (which is actually particularly good) has suggested. I dont doubt you COULD make it entirely from scratch, sans the engines. But im not sure the unit price would be worth it minus an actual history.

 

Maybe thats why the Flugwerke FW190s dont seem to have been a financial success, lacking a combat history they lack the value that make production of them viable. Dont know.

[Panzermann]

If you really wanted to, you could build the engines and gear boxes from scratch too. Would be bloody expensive of course for the castings and machine work etc. and who says that the archived drawings and blueprints are going to produce a reliable engine?

[mattblack]

Not that many American "warbirds" saw actual combat. The majority of survivors were conversion training aircraft,never delivered and so forth.

[Stuart Galbraith]

One day it will be economic to build new Merlins, because the existing supply is going to get used up, or there will be internal components difficult to source.

 

I was interested to note that Peter Jackson owns and maintains a collection of replica WW1 aircraft in New Zealand. The point is that they are about as accurate as you are going to get, including working replica's of the original RAF (Royal Aircraft Factory) engines. It only took a hundred years....

Edited October 4, 2017 by Stuart Galbraith

[DB]

Try the Shuttleworth collection, Stuart.

 

http://www.shuttleworth.org/the-collection/

[Stuart Galbraith]

Do they got as far as building entirely new engines? Id not heard that.

 

Here is the Jackson website. They build a variety of WW1 RAF engines, as well building an Oberursel, the engine that powered the Fokker Triplane. Wonderful engineering to look at.

http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/projects/oberursel-engine/oberursel-ur-ii-rotary-engine-build-history

[DougRichards]

I think that was just the wooden structure. Most of the sub components (undercart, engines, radiator) I think they had from a donor aircraft, or so the Haynes book on the Mosquito (which is actually particularly good) has suggested. I dont doubt you COULD make it entirely from scratch, sans the engines. But im not sure the unit price would be worth it minus an actual history.

 

Maybe thats why the Flugwerke FW190s dont seem to have been a financial success, lacking a combat history they lack the value that make production of them viable. Dont know.

 

 

And sometimes more radical (or should that be 'radial') solutions are found:

 

https://daniel-wales-images.deviantart.com/art/The-Wrong-Radial-705788457

 

The Fighter Collection's Hawker Sea Fury T.20 has been grounded for around half a decade now due to problems with the Bristol Centaurus powerplant, an engine very well known for being temperamental. Clearly frustrated with these issues and wanting their beautiful machine back in the skies, it seems the collection have decided to opt for the instalment of a Pratt & Whitney R-2800, a conversion that many Sea Fury operators around the globe have chosen for continued reliability. A good reliable solution and one that has kept many Furies and Sea Furies operating successfully. However for those of us that truly love this mighty Hawker built monster, the conversion comes at the price of loosing something quintessential to the machine, it's truly wonderful silky smooth grumble as it rips the sky apart, and that fantastically potent looking five blade prop that just screams power.

 

I am lead to believe that the conversion is only a temporary measure, and once a solution to their Centaurus issues is found, she will once again become the machine she should be. However I cannot deny that even a Pratt and Whitney Fury is better than a grounded Fury. After all, there's nothing particularly wrong with the converted Furies, they are beautiful machines as are their British powered counterparts. It's just that once you've seen and heard a Centaurus Fury, you understand entirely why some operators are willing to go through the hassle to operating on them.

[Stuart Galbraith]

There is something about a Bristol designed power-plant. Capricious they might have been, but they just have a sound all of their own.

Edited October 6, 2017 by Stuart Galbraith

[Stuart Galbraith]

Speaking of Hawker aircraft, the Hawker Typhoon might yet return to British skies too.

http://hawkertyphoon.com/the-project/background/