Little Flying Dragons Of China

[JasonJ]

A new thread for Chinese aircraft. The other "China's peaceful rise" can still be used, but I figure to leave it for just more specifically military related activities since activities can more easily attract geopolitical discussion than just straight tech of some items.

 

Some recent pictures of a J-20 numbered 2021 that is said by observers to have different engines called WS-10B installed.

 

 

 

[JasonJ]

A formation of 5 J-20s in June 2017.

 

 

As of January 2017, said to be the 5th production model.

 

 

Pictures of the first 4 production models, 78274, 78273, 78272, and 78271 from generally late 2016 in the spoiler.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 23, 2017 by JasonJ

[JasonJ]

With fuel tanks in late 2016.

 

 

First airshow with J-20 in November 2016.

 

Weapons bay open, maybe photo is from October 2016.

[JasonJ]

Going further back in the J-20s development history, this photo shows the number 2102 which was thought at the time of this webpage to mean aircraft with numbers 20xx are prototypes and aircraft with numbers 21xx are production models.

 

Also from the same webpage is this photo speculating that it was J-20s (either real or mock-up) having its stealth levels being tested.

 

And some eariler prototypes of J-20 which the aircraft may extend back a few years depending on the prototype numbered aircraft. 2017 being a late prototype and 2001 likely being the first prototype. In the spoiler

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 23, 2017 by JasonJ

[Mr King]

I wonder what they are flying we have not seen.

[shep854]

Hope nothing happens to them...

[Luckyorwhat]

Yea, somethings will happens, like making money.

 

It's a sounds business model. You hack the Russian Mig corp servers, steal ALL the plans for the Mig 1.44, Stealth it up, and Voila J20. Nice range btw, seriously big fuel capacity.

 

Also fun, and something Americans really don't talk about enough, how China hacked Lockheed Fucking Martin and stole ALL THE FUCKING BLUEPRINTS to build the F35. Jason man, why not post pics of the J31 or whatever they calling it now. It's the F35 with twin engines. Lockheed admitted the hack. And China turned it into a flying product in very fast time. As far as I've heard no-one is being held accountable for what might be the second largest espionage act against America in modern history, biggest of this century.

 

This breach explains *some of the delays the F35 is experiencing. Hopefully(truly) the Chinese spys only took data, and didn't insert anything into the uncountable lines of code. But they probably did. Brits were putting back-doors into the products made in Hong Kong, why wouldn't the Chinese follow suit? ​​I'm reasonably confident that the F35 will still work for colonial type ops, like Italy vs Ethiopia, as long as China doesn't side with the underdog and provide weapons tailored to the F35.

 

 

 

The Byzantine Hades hacks – the code name given to the attacks by U.S. investigators who traced the hacks back to a specific unit of the Chinese People’s Liberation Army first revealed by Wikileaks – have also targeted other programs and “cause serious damage to DoD interests,” according to a top secret power point presentation. The Chinese hackers were also successful in obtaining data on the B-2 stealth bomber, the F-22 jet, space-based lasers, missile navigation and tracking systems, as well as nuclear submarine/anti-air missile designs.

[JasonJ]

why not post pics of the J31 or whatever they calling it now.

There are many aircraft to put up. I just went with J-20 first since the new engines was a recent development. There were some new pictures of the version 2 of of J-31 but seems less affirmative as to the nature. But they'll get posted in time.

[Josh]

Its a very large a/c. I wouldn't expect it to win any races in energy or cornering, even with new engines. But I bet it has a long range. Looks like it has some kind of internal laser designator in the nose? I never noticed that before.

[JasonJ]

Its a very large a/c. I wouldn't expect it to win any races in energy or cornering, even with new engines. But I bet it has a long range. Looks like it has some kind of internal laser designator in the nose? I never noticed that before.

 

It looks like the same kind of prism on the F-35 or are you referring to something else? ISTR asking about that very same thing to which you actually responded saying that it was an internal laser guidance sort of thing and you went on saying that something to the effect like regular aircraft having the guidance pod outside the aircraft, like on the wing or something, but it is internal on the F-35 for the sake of making it stealthy. Well that's what I recall

[Josh]

Yeah, the prism. The v shape is pretty common in EO/IR window glass that has to be stealthy; SLAM-ER, NSM, etc also use that shape. I assume the optics need a flat continuous surface so a two dimensional wedge is the only shape that works to still reflect radar radiation away from a hostile emitter.

 

If you asked me about the F-35, then yes I probably did say that. On the F-35 its basically an internalized Sniper pod and I expect that's what we're looking at here. But that's notable in that it implies PLA expects this platform to be a fighter bomber and not an F-22 analog.

[Luckyorwhat]

Probably a ship killer too. If the F22 can go 3000km on 26000lb J-20 could possibly do 4,500 - 5000km, putting Australia in range of the mainland, and if you station some in Djibouti you control the African Continent.

 

f35 Internal fuel capacity: 18,498 lb

 

f22

• Fuel capacity: 18,000 lb (8,200 kg) internally, or 26,000 lb (12,000 kg) with two external fuel tank

 

J-20

• Fuel capacity: 11,340 kg (25,000 lb) internally, or 19,340 kg (42,600 lb) with 4×2,400L external fuel tanks^[98]

[shep854]

 

Probably a ship killer too. If the F22 can go 3000km on 26000lb J-20 could possibly do 4,500 - 5000km, putting Australia in range of the mainland, and if you station some in Djibouti you control the African Continent.

 

f35 Internal fuel capacity: 18,498 lb

 

f22

• Fuel capacity: 18,000 lb (8,200 kg) internally, or 26,000 lb (12,000 kg) with two external fuel tank

 

J-20

• Fuel capacity: 11,340 kg (25,000 lb) internally, or 19,340 kg (42,600 lb) with 4×2,400L external fuel tanks^[98]

 

That size pushes it toward a bomber (or, 'strike') category. A '21st century Canberra' perhaps?

Edited September 27, 2017 by shep854

[Josh]

Well its absolute range will be driven somewhat by fuel efficiency as well. The F-22 and F-35 have similar fuel numbers listed above, but while the F-22 can super cruise the 35 actually has a significantly longer combat radius (I suspect this is one engine vs two and total size/weight of the a/c).

 

So I'd be pretty careful with range estimates for the J-20, but it clearly is intended to be a fighter bomber with a possible interceptor secondary role. Its not going to be turning and burning with that size and weight.

[JasonJ]

What anti-ship missile could fit inside J-20's bays? China has a new large and heavy anti-ship missile called the YJ-12 but its meant for the H-6 and maybe JH-7. Don't think J-20 will be able to externally mount YJ-12. Also, not sure if YJ-12 is in full operation yet.

[Josh]

Pretty sure the YJ-12 has been operational for some time, but I think its limited to surface launches and H-6K. I believe the JH-7B will have the payload to carry two, but I think the JH-7A can't take the load.

 

I'm not very familiar with PLAN missiles; perhaps their version of the Klub would fold up enough to fit in there?

[JasonJ]

I guess that would be the YJ-18. Looks like they have only a naval and maybe a ground version for it.

[Josh]

I was just thinking that one might be easy to work into a bay because it already folds up into a torp tube, but it is a long weapon that might not fit in that dimension. I'm not aware of an operational AShM that folds actually.

[Luckyorwhat]

Hadn't thought of the weapons bay dimensions. Would be useful in the attack if the ships had less warning time due to the lower aircraft RCS. Could have changed the Falklands.

 

Looks like J20 can carry PL-21, an 18 foot 600lb AAM, but YJ-12 is 21 feet & 5500lb. If I were China I'd make an AShM that'll fit the plane we're going to fly for the foreseeable future.

[JasonJ]

If I'm not mistaken, they also have smaller AShM (still a bit bigger and heavier than Harpoon) that is the YJ-8 series. YJ-8 and YJ-81 (air version) are older with rather short ranges (40km and 80km respectively). The export version is called C-801. The YJ-82 being a submarine launched version. A development based on those is the YJ-83 (some places seem to be calling this the YJ-82 by mistake) which has a longer range. Export version is the C-802. So the YJ-83 could probably be put on hardpoints on J-20 if they really wanted to.

[Josh]

Oh they definitely have a lot of stuff that would fit outside the plane, no doubt. Just the YJ-12 specifically is a very large weapon - you don't get super sonic and long range for free. And the other weapons they have for air launch don't fold up such that they could be fit in a bay (and I think that the YJ-8 series is still too large anyway). I assume they are developing a slimmed down weapon for internal carriage.

[Luckyorwhat]

Why not stealth the missile?

[Garth]

 

Also fun, and something Americans really don't talk about enough, how China hacked Lockheed Fucking Martin and stole ALL THE FUCKING BLUEPRINTS to build the F35. Jason man, why not post pics of the J31 or whatever they calling it now. It's the F35 with twin engines. Lockheed admitted the hack. And China turned it into a flying product in very fast time ....

Actually the J31 is MUCH closer to the YF-22 than the F-35. The only part that seems to be lifted from the F-35 is the intake design.

[Luckyorwhat]

Interesting. So they have both designs, and know them well enough to combine features. Truly a masterpiece. They were so good at reverse engineering and the world just accepted it, then espionage provides drawings WITH all specs - gravy work. What an engineering foundation their school system has developed. These people are national resources.

 

Funny how Boeing can ground UK military craft, cut the UK off from support if they push this Northern Ireland/Bombardier C-series protest, since Boeing isn't releasing data on the planes they're selling. But the top secret Lockheed Martin Stealth fighters that have been 3 decades in development, costing more than the space program, that the mightiest country in the world will come to depend on as their big stick of international policy...

 

Think about the policy implications - if you're American Diplomat you need to have confidence in your weapons, little wiggle worries like F35's going into 'safe mode' while flying and China demonstrating they know all about your planes - that's going to make you less belligerent than when you thought you were literally untouchable. What a move! They don't have to destroy a weapon system, if they compromise it so it is not used against them - they have succeeded just the same. And unlike various Soviet leaders being aware of their weakness but playing their cards well and bluffing, it's all out there. Did Kruschev have full confidence in his rocket forces? Seems not, but we didn't know. Does America have full confidence in their 'Day 1 Stealth Strike ability vs China? Seems not, and they know.

 

Just like Battlestar Galactica, it's going to be legacy aircraft still flying when China sends a command shutting down Lockheed planes. It's possible some of the airplane's computer code teething problems could have been due to malicious scripts and not incompetence.

 

Ppl hear NATO and think Air Power. Take that away, what's left? 'Advisors'? China really found a way to make a strength into a weakness, God Fucking Damn em, what a move. It's not quite war, but Chinese strategy is always (try) to win the battle before the fighting ever begins, so the outcome is not in doubt. Know thy enemy - check. Russia must be soo relieved China's attention is focused in directions away from them, that'd be my main strategy - that and protect my jet engine designs.

 

 

Looking at Chinese cell phone tech - they use 900mhz. In Canada that band has been reallocated away from civilian. But it's useful for detecting stealth bombers, and if wikileaks is true the B2 is compromised as well. And the Chinese have displayed multi-spectral passive scanning vehicles, which notably use reflected cell phone waves as radar. You can't destroy all their emitters, they're distributed and dispersed. US air power may not work against, or in proximity to China.

[JasonJ]

The FC-31 V2 is the second version of what was called the J-31.

 

The first image came out within last couple of months. The next two and video are a little older, maybe April 2017. There are other pictures which are late 2016 would be my guess.