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7 hours ago, nitflegal said:

I don't understand why anybody would want Trump to concede now.  Either the process plays out and there is no or minimal fraud and Trump and his team look like idiots and are then cast aside while the votes of the American people are upheld (which is the whole point of the exercise) or the process plays out and a great deal of fraud and incompetence is documented and displayed.  If there is not enough to flip the election it documents a major voting rights issue and puts it front and center for being addressed.  If it's enough to flip the election than the votes of the American people are upheld which is the whole point of the exercise.  Already we are seeing a fair amount of small but worrisome trends in unentered votes and issues with voting counts and oversight.  Quite probably incompetence but worth isolating and fixing.  

I mean, I agree with you in principle but 1) Team Trump seems to be largely abandoning the individual lawsuits in favor of the new Big Lie theory and 2) I think it’s naive to assume that most people change their opinions once they’re proven wrong. (Case in point, that German server bullshit — I really doubt any posters here who immediately jumped on it have engaged in the slightest bit of soul-searching afterwards ). As Mark Twain said (except he  didn’t!) a lie travels the world a thousand times... and this means I’ll walk into a bar ten years from now and meet some idiot who thinks that Biden and Hugo Chavez teamed up to rig the voting machines and steal the election. 

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33 minutes ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

Roman, go take your 'we are so fortunate in mother Russia' bullshit to another thread. I told you before, im not your Walter Duranty and im not buying.

Wiki tells me following: “Walter Duranty (25 May 1884 – 3 October 1957) was a Liverpool-born Anglo-American journalist who served as Moscow bureau chief of The New York Times for fourteen years (1922–1936) following the Bolshevik victory in the Russian Civil War.” So I see that Walter Duranty, whatever was his political views, was eyewitness of at least two epochs of Russia/USSR history.  For how many years you are stationed in Russia, Stuart?

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34 minutes ago, Roman Alymov said:

Wiki tells me following: “Walter Duranty (25 May 1884 – 3 October 1957) was a Liverpool-born Anglo-American journalist who served as Moscow bureau chief of The New York Times for fourteen years (1922–1936) following the Bolshevik victory in the Russian Civil War.” So I see that Walter Duranty, whatever was his political views, was eyewitness of at least two epochs of Russia/USSR history.  For how many years you are stationed in Russia, Stuart?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Duranty

The Ukrainian Famine (1932-1933) and the 1938 Moscow Show Trials

Duranty has been criticized for deferring to Stalin and the Soviet Union's official propaganda rather than reporting news, both when he was living in Moscow and later. For example, he later defended Stalin's Moscow Trials of 1938, which were staged to eliminate potential challengers to Stalin's authority.[20]

The major controversy regarding his work remains his reporting on the great famine of 1932–33 that struck certain parts of the USSR after agriculture was forcibly and rapidly "collectivised". He published reports stating "there is no famine or actual starvation nor is there likely to be" and "any report of a famine in Russia is today an exaggeration or malignant propaganda".[21] In Ukraine, the region most affected, this man-made disaster is today known as the Holodomor.

Since the late 1960s, Duranty's work has come increasingly under fire for failing to report the famine. Robert Conquest was critical of Duranty's reporting in The Great Terror (1968), The Harvest of Sorrow (1986) and, most recently, in Reflections on a Ravaged Century (1990). Joseph Alsop and Andrew Stuttaford spoke out against Duranty during the Pulitzer Prize controversy.[22] "Lying was Duranty's stock in trade," commented Alsop. In his memoirs British journalist Malcolm Muggeridge, then The Manchester Guardian's correspondent in Moscow, talked of Duranty's "persistent lying"[23] and elsewhere called him "the greatest liar I ever knew.".[24]

 

Like I said, im not your Walter Duranty. Go sell your unwholesome agitprop to someone who gives a damn.

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8 hours ago, Brian Kennedy said:

I mean, I agree with you in principle but 1) Team Trump seems to be largely abandoning the individual lawsuits in favor of the new Big Lie theory and 2) I think it’s naive to assume that most people change their opinions once they’re proven wrong. (Case in point, that German server bullshit — I really doubt any posters here who immediately jumped on it have engaged in the slightest bit of soul-searching afterwards ). As Mark Twain said (except he  didn’t!) a lie travels the world a thousand times... and this means I’ll walk into a bar ten years from now and meet some idiot who thinks that Biden and Hugo Chavez teamed up to rig the voting machines and steal the election. 

Its the lie that will continue to shred this site.  The people who see what it is, a tissue of lies, and those that cannot bear to part with it. Christ knows what it will do to America, but its easy to see what its doing right here.

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11 minutes ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

Like I said, im not your Walter Duranty. Go sell your unwholesome agitprop to someone who gives a damn.

As I have pointed out earlier, you are obviously not “Walter Duranty” – just another Forum member, with your judgment on Russia based on what your media tells you (not sure you can even read Russian to use local sources).  So your attempts to tell me, also Forum member, to do or not to do something are charming :)

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22 minutes ago, Simon Tan said:

It is little surprise that Kasparov does not understand elections. He has only seen them in the news.

His main problem is he is not good in winning elections  - as his political talent is not even the shade of his chess one

https://www.chess.com/news/view/breaking-ilyumzhinov-beats-kasparov-110-61-at-fide-presidential-elections-4528

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11 hours ago, Brian Kennedy said:

I mean, I agree with you in principle but 1) Team Trump seems to be largely abandoning the individual lawsuits in favor of the new Big Lie theory and 2) I think it’s naive to assume that most people change their opinions once they’re proven wrong. (Case in point, that German server bullshit — I really doubt any posters here who immediately jumped on it have engaged in the slightest bit of soul-searching afterwards ). As Mark Twain said (except he  didn’t!) a lie travels the world a thousand times... and this means I’ll walk into a bar ten years from now and meet some idiot who thinks that Biden and Hugo Chavez teamed up to rig the voting machines and steal the election. 

12th Amendment?

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2 hours ago, John T said:

The European experience of a leader who comes to power through political election and then discredit the democratic system to a degree they no longer needed elections is'nt a very very nice experience.

As for me it is major simplification – since the initial stage of situation in particular country turning so bad that citizens start looking for political force/leader who promise them quick relief of that pain, even if this quick relief will demand dismantling discredited bourgeois democracy.  

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On 11/20/2020 at 1:12 AM, BansheeOne said:

Actually that explanation (with aforementioned benevolent undertones) was linked to on another board, I just pulled up a more original source. I was dimly aware of the Zwickau event, but had it mixed up myself with the September raid on the former Bundeswehr bunker in Rhineland-Palatinate that had been turned into a Darknet server farm as possible inspiration for the story. 

Per Sidney Powell at the press conference: "That is true, it’s somehow related to this but I do not know whether good guys got it or bad guys got it.” But... you think she would know?

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It's notable that any official figure affirming this in person is qualifying it with some sort of "but I don't know". Saw some faithful comment that Powell looked unusually distressed, the information must really have gotten to her, so it must be true. Of course I'd look distressed if I had to say stuff like that at a press conference, too.

I think what's happened is that it has already become an article of faith with the hardcore Trumpists, and going against the overall conspiracy narrative is risking to get added to their exponentially growing list of traitors in a New York minute, as happened to Tucker Carlson. I've already seen first displeased noises about all of Trump's Supreme Court appointees for failing him in some decisions, including Amy Coney Barrett for not participating in the ruling on the Pennsylvania voting deadline, a mere day after she was sworn in. That may not involve actual physical danger, but ultimately in this hypercharged atmosphere with both camps in a feeding frenzy, as a champion for the cause you're all in for any practical purpose of your existence. Which explains why Giuliani is clearly losing his shit for anybody to see. 

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2 hours ago, BansheeOne said:

It's notable that any official figure affirming this in person is qualifying it with some sort of "but I don't know". Saw some faithful comment that Powell looked unusually distressed, the information must really have gotten to her, so it must be true. Of course I'd look distressed if I had to say stuff like that at a press conference, too.

It only takes one look at her Twitter feed to, well... It's quite a meltdown over there in Trumperland.

 

Edited by Der Zeitgeist
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15 hours ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

Its the lie that will continue to shred this site.  The people who see what it is, a tissue of lies, and those that cannot bear to part with it. Christ knows what it will do to America, but its easy to see what its doing right here.

"Shredding the site"? After 4 years of the Russia crap we're still here.

I think we can give Trump at least the same amount of time they gave Gore to contest one county in one state. 

What are people afraid of? There are a huge number of powerful people who have a vested interest in this whole thing going away including plenty of Republicans.

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6 hours ago, Jeff said:

"Shredding the site"? After 4 years of the Russia crap we're still here.


 

shred•ding

  • n.
    The act of tearing or cutting into shreds; also, the act of pruning or clipping.
  • n.
    That which is shred; a ragged strip; a fragment; a scrap.
  • n.
    plural In carpentry, short, light pieces of timber fixed as bearers below a roof, forming a straight line with the upper side of the rafters. Also called furrings.
 
Perhaps it means something in Welsh?   🤨
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7 hours ago, Jeff said:

"Shredding the site"? After 4 years of the Russia crap we're still here.

I think we can give Trump at least the same amount of time they gave Gore to contest one county in one state. 

What are people afraid of? There are a huge number of powerful people who have a vested interest in this whole thing going away including plenty of Republicans.

Have you stopped to think how many posters have left? Go take a look on the AFV thread, its near dead. There is very little happening on any of the other threads.

What am I afraid of? Im afraid that if its conclusively found that Trump was lying through his teeth, many of you wont accept it, and we are in for another decade of infighting, backbiting, and running people off the site that dont agree. That is what im afraid of.

This used to be a military site that dabbled in politics. Now its a politics site that dabbles in military discussion, if at all.

 

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Well the site having issues didn't help. Also when new people show up and ask the same questions that were asked years ago, the older posters do need to show patience with them. I been sending invites out to get some new blood. We need more than just Canadian-US and Brits posters. Some new folks from other places would be nice.

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