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Because Trump 2.0


Mr King

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I don't understand why anybody would want Trump to concede now.  Either the process plays out and there is no or minimal fraud and Trump and his team look like idiots and are then cast aside while the votes of the American people are upheld (which is the whole point of the exercise) or the process plays out and a great deal of fraud and incompetence is documented and displayed.  If there is not enough to flip the election it documents a major voting rights issue and puts it front and center for being addressed.  If it's enough to flip the election than the votes of the American people are upheld which is the whole point of the exercise.  Already we are seeing a fair amount of small but worrisome trends in unentered votes and issues with voting counts and oversight.  Quite probably incompetence but worth isolating and fixing.  

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The missing ballots to the tune of several thousand are a worry to me. 
The fact that absentee ballots are insecure and confirmed by signature only is a conern to me. 
The fact that I KNOW of one case of absentee ballot fraud when people say it can't happen is a concern to me. 
The shenanigans at the Phillips Arena counting location worry me. 

I want to see this stuff addressed and I don't feel that the Secretary of State sufficiently did so in this instance. 


But it's ok, some cartoon dude in the UK is telling me what to think of my own local and state election system because of things he read on the internet just today. It would only be more ironic and fitting with the usual schema on this if it was a transgender, pink, furry cartoon dude. 

Edited by rmgill
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Just now, rmgill said:

Stuart, on this particular point:

"On October 16, 2020, Jones spoke at a Trump rally in Macon, Georgia and crowd surfed afterwords, which drew criticism as it occurred in the middle of a pandemic with a mostly maskless crowd."

I have to ask, why are the same folks criticizing Jones NOT cricizing Democrats for the same faltering of protocol vis a vis COVID? Did ya miss the Pro Biden Celebration with leading democrats swigging champaign from the same bottle? 

I know, it's hard for you to understand with your rose colored BBC talking head filters on, but the standards are different for a politician depending on how they lean. 

Because those Democrats are not being held up as an example of the electoral system not working. If you are going to raise them as evidence the system isnt working by delivering idiots, I would agree with you. Although as they are in the end only following the Presidents lead, its curious to be censured for it by yourself, whom never seem to have endorsed maskwearing previously on the pandemic thread.

Here is what you need to get in your head Ryan. I might by a lilly livered Liberal of the British sense, with a distinct Leftist lean and a pro BBC bia's, all quite true and Ill give you that. But equally, and you will never accept this, I dont have to like the Democrats to loathe and despise Donald Trump. Not necessarily all that he believes in,  because some of his policies are good. But the man. It doesnt matter a damn what the party is, or his policies are, if the man is devoid of any moral core whatsovever. Or any apparent intelligence whatsoever for that matter. If he was the man he is and his name was George Washington or Alexander Hamiton, I would still think him a prize twat. And so like as not would they.

I said long ago, you should have nominated Ted Cruz. I stand by that. I dont support Biden other than he seems to be one of the few people in Government today who can see that the Kabuki theatre  both sides of the house are delivering to their adoring public is tearing the country apart. And your President does nothing but pour petrol on the flames and fiddle like Nero.

You dont get my position, and thats entirely understandable. Your political system demands you are binary whether you want to be or not.  im not. There isnt a political party in your nation or mine that fully underwrites what I believe in. Which kind of supports the idea that I am indeed a contrary bastard. Its daresay its the Irish side coming out. :)

 

 

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4 minutes ago, nitflegal said:

I don't understand why anybody would want Trump to concede now.  Either the process plays out and there is no or minimal fraud and Trump and his team look like idiots and are then cast aside while the votes of the American people are upheld (which is the whole point of the exercise) or the process plays out and a great deal of fraud and incompetence is documented and displayed.  If there is not enough to flip the election it documents a major voting rights issue and puts it front and center for being addressed.  If it's enough to flip the election than the votes of the American people are upheld which is the whole point of the exercise.  Already we are seeing a fair amount of small but worrisome trends in unentered votes and issues with voting counts and oversight.  Quite probably incompetence but worth isolating and fixing.  

The system needs to run to the end, I quite agree. What I dont agree with is the underlying narrative all through the process, even before the election started 'Its a fraud, its all lies, if I lose its been stolen!'. Not only does it insult the American peoples intelligence, its talking a long, methodical slash all over the American political system.

The damage is not whether Trump wins or loses. Its what damage as he flails around trying vainly after the fact to get the result he wants. Whether he won or lost, its done, and no amount of lawyers is going to change the physical reality of it.

Id have much more sympathy for there being electoral issues, if he didnt raise exactly the same issues in 2016, when he won.

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22 minutes ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

How many electoral college votes would Georgia deliver to Trump if they proved fraud?

16, maximum.

How many electoral college votes is Trump behind?

74.

If Trump can prove fraud (probably in the mail in ballots or not at all), then the GOP will have the ammunition to ban mail in ballots altogether if not imposing severe security restrictions on them next time.  So it's not quite just about whether Trump can add 16 to his total while subtracting 16 from Joe's.

 

 

 

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If they ban mail in ballots, then they are basically saying to the US Military deployed overseas 'FUCK YOU! YOU DONT COUNT!' At which point the consequences are considerably further reaching that whether or not Trump wins the election.

Good idea or not? Discuss.

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Just now, Stuart Galbraith said:

Because those Democrats are not being held up as an example of the electoral system not working.

Yeah. Because they run the corrupt political systems in their SINGLE PARTY locales. So why hold them up as an example.

Also, Vernon Jones calling out corruption could be valid as he was swimming in that pond for decades. You can't say someone is corrupt in a system that is observably corrupt across a range of levels and then say that he can't be correct about that corruption. 

 

Just now, Stuart Galbraith said:

If you are going to raise them as evidence the system isnt working by delivering idiots, I would agree with you. Although as they are in the end only following the Presidents lead, its curious to be censured for it by yourself, whom never seem to have endorsed maskwearing previously on the pandemic thread.

The left is treating mask wearing like it's a holy rite. If you fail to perform it  then you are sinful. If you pay money to the right people you're absolved of your sins. Jones isn't paying money to the right people. California Governor Newsom IS. 

That's why, for the media, Newsome having dinner in close proximity with folks not from his family isn't a problem. That's why, for the media, Leading New York Politicians swigging champaign isn't a problem. 
But, for Jones it IS a problem because COVID. 

Here's the thing. I don't subscribe to the holy mask wearing. I comply where I'm forced to by property owners. 

Just now, Stuart Galbraith said:

 

Here is what you need to get in your head Ryan. I might by a lilly livered Liberal of the British sense, with a distinct Leftist lean and a pro BBC bia's, all quite true and Ill give you that. But equally, and you will never accept this, I dont have to like the Democrats to loathe and despise Donald Trump. Not necessarily all that he believes in,  because some of his policies are good. But the man. It doesnt matter a damn what the party is, or his policies are, if the man is devoid of any moral core whatsovever. Or any apparent intelligence whatsoever for that matter. If he was the man he is and his name was George Washington or Alexander Hamiton, I would still think him a prize twat. And so like as not would they.

What ever he is as a TWAT he's better for things here because he's a complete outsider from the system. Anyone complaining about what ever influence Trump might be wielding are bloody mindedly ignoring the influence peddling that Biden has done for 40 fucking years. Trump is an outsider who shakes things up, that's a good thing. We've needed that. 

Kindly stop telling us what we don't need. You can't even figure out how to get your own nation to be an independent sovereignty again and you don't WANT it to be either. 

Just now, Stuart Galbraith said:

I said long ago, you should have nominated Ted Cruz. I stand by that. I dont support Biden other than he seems to be one of the few people in Government today who can see that the Kabuki theatre  both sides of the house are delivering to their adoring public is tearing the country apart. And your President does nothing but pour petrol on the flames and fiddle like Nero.

That's fucking dumb and you know it. 

Mid east peace deal remember that? 
SCOTUS Judges
Reduced Regulations
Shake up the system
two vaccines for COVID (how many of those in the UK)
Brakes on the Immigration train
Best economy for the US in 50 years. 
 

 

Just now, Stuart Galbraith said:

You dont get my position, and thats entirely understandable. Your political system demands you are binary whether you want to be or not.  im not. There isnt a political party in your nation or mine that fully underwrites what I believe in. Which kind of supports the idea that I am indeed a contrary bastard. Its daresay its the Irish side coming out. :)

 

At this point, I expect the Biden Administration, if that's, what we have, to fuck EVERYTHING up. From middle east peace issues to issues with China and with Russia. And we have a California Democrat waiting in the wings to follow on.  

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5 minutes ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

The system needs to run to the end, I quite agree. What I dont agree with is the underlying narrative all through the process, even before the election started 'Its a fraud, its all lies, if I lose its been stolen!'. Not only does it insult the American peoples intelligence, its talking a long, methodical slash all over the American political system.

The damage is not whether Trump wins or loses. Its what damage as he flails around trying vainly after the fact to get the result he wants. Whether he won or lost, its done, and no amount of lawyers is going to change the physical reality of it.

Id have much more sympathy for there being electoral issues, if he didnt raise exactly the same issues in 2016, when he won.

The bargain might be something along the lines of Trump agreeing to concede the election after a forensic audit of the mail in ballots in a few key counties in Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Atlanta.  By "forensic audit", I mean, every voter being contacted for an interview, every vote checked, all signatures reviewed by a committee.  All officials and workers in the election stations will turn in their iphones for audit, and any can and will be subject to lie detector tests.

Do that, and the election result passes with flying colors in these key suspect city districts, and I think that the bulk of the GOP voting base will come around to accepting the results.  Don't do that, and you're setting up for a massive showdown on mail in and absentee voting practices.

There is even a small danger of a foreign actor (rhymes with 'tutin') publishing stolen election files and results in cases where this information will increase tensions.

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7 minutes ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

If they ban mail in ballots, then they are basically saying to the US Military deployed overseas 'FUCK YOU! YOU DONT COUNT!' At which point the consequences are considerably further reaching that whether or not Trump wins the election.

Good idea or not? Discuss.

Now the US military is too stupid to figure out how to set up voting booths at their overseas bases?  This is what you are telling me?  That the same guys that invented a bomber that can fly undetected past an SA-12 radar are too stupid to figure out how to print and distribute, tabulate and return electronically to the various counties across the country, the varied and required down ballot information for overseas troops?

Edited by glenn239
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4 minutes ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

If they ban mail in ballots, then they are basically saying to the US Military deployed overseas 'FUCK YOU! YOU DONT COUNT!' At which point the consequences are considerably further reaching that whether or not Trump wins the election.

Good idea or not? Discuss.

No. Because you can implement a few more clear checks with military ballots that are, as far as I understand already a bit different. If they' weren't the Gore Campaign wouldn't have made an issue of them. And, again, with military ballots the folks over seas are serving their country. Of course they're a special case and of course they should have a bit of latitude if say a war makes the ballots getting back a bit delayed. 

Again, for the hard of reading. There are several types of mail in ballots. 

1. Absentee ballots that you request, and has a level of cross checking. This is suspect in some respects due to the singular requirement for cross checking a signature from a voter registration card. The issue of ballot harvesting is also a grave issue here. It's trivial for a group to collect a bunch of ballots, make new copies of the ballots and deliver them in altered form. There's no useful chain of custody. 

2. Mail out and back in ballots. This is is bad for a variety of reasons. They were mailed out without request. There's no cross checking of voters even being at a given address. If the voter rolls are not accurate, free ballots for whom ever receives them are now in play. And there's the issue of ballot harvesting again. 

3. Military Absentee Ballots. These are alredy obviously separate. How they have cross checking is a question, but I don't see a very useful logistical path for an organization trying to rig an election by having people go down range to say Afghanistan and somehow swing a race because you're not going to have useful folks from the same area in a given locale to coordinate. There's also the whole issue of other cross checks on someone being in the military and the APO postal addresses, etc. 
 

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I will also observe that the tabulation system, if it allows the same ballot to be counted multiple times if the election folks are being sketchy, that presents a serious issue. They should be machine readable with unique serial numbers applied and readable when cast and/or received. Perhaps a mathematical hash of the VOTER ID issued when the ballot is cast. This is to make it harder for stuffing to occur. 

Edited by rmgill
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American citizens need to be very concerned now. Look at those Republican governors and if they will fall in line with the obvious election fraud or not. If they do not stand behind Trump, they must never be elected again. And you should make it very clear to them.

But in the end, I think this coup will work and the left swamp will make America a vassal of China. 

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1 minute ago, seahawk said:

American citizens need to be very concerned now. Look at those Republican governors and if they will fall in line with the obvious election fraud or not. If they do not stand behind Trump, they must never be elected again. And you should make it very clear to them.

But in the end, I think this coup will work and the left swamp will make America a vassal of China. 

You are way too nice. The traitors should face firing-squads. Or at least life, preferably in work-camps.

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35 minutes ago, Stefan Fredriksson said:

You are way too nice. The traitors should face firing-squads. Or at least life, preferably in work-camps.

Oh, the Democrats are already asking for these. 

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2 hours ago, nitflegal said:

Already we are seeing a fair amount of small but worrisome trends in unentered votes and issues with voting counts and oversight.  Quite probably incompetence but worth isolating and fixing.  

I think it's certain what little has been shown to be legit (which isn't enough to change the outcome and certainly doesn't indicate any sort of wide scale level of fraud) is the result of the bolded bit.  Look at the process - highly decentralized (so more bureaucracy), run by folks who aren't necessarily your best and brightest, and in many places doesn't have a whole lot of money behind the system.

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5 hours ago, Mikel2 said:

True. But the pressure and harassment his legal team is subject to are scaring away the best talent. Not something you expect in a democratic republic.

I think if there was something there worth staying and fighting for the best talent would do it. 

In our history as a nation, sadly, there have been countless examples (notably during the Civil Rights movement) where legal professionals, themselves directly and/or their families, have been threatened for doing what was right.  They still did it.

I think it's more some of these individuals are using the pressure and harassment as an excuse to bow out without having to say there's no case to be made.

Edited by Skywalkre
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2 hours ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

The damage is not whether Trump wins or loses. Its what damage as he flails around trying vainly after the fact to get the result he wants. 

Isn’t that exactly what his opponents were doing after Trump win last elections? Endless complains, "not my President", stories of Russian meddling etc.,  US embassies abroad telling unofficially to their  dependent local politicians to “weather Trump” and so on. Not surprising next (recent) elections became even worse, and now even Ukrainian political experts say Ukraine-2019 Presidential elections were more clear and transparent than USA-2020 one.

   Again, both Trump and Biden (as well as Hillary before him) are not illness - but symthoms.

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No, it's nothing at all like it.

Democracy allows discourse, complaints, displeasure. People don't HAVE to accept him as president, but the system does, and did. That in itself is nothing comparable to what Trump is trying to do, bend the system to his will, and change the result of a national election. Let's call it what it is, it's a attempted coup.

I'm sure you would then bring up the impeachment. If Trump had been successfully impeached, there would still have been a Republican President in the White House who would have stuck by his policies and, in my opinion at least, probably carried them out much better. If Trump succeeds, the same is not true for the Democrats.

No, the only reason he is doing what he is doing is petty vindictiveness. It is not in anyway comparable to what happened to him, a good 80 percent of which he brought upon himself.

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11 hours ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

There are closer similarities than that. We probably all know well the 'Political Technology' method Putin has used to remain in power, its to fund candidates that are similar in opinion to his most likely opponents and split their vote. They have used that time and again down the past 2 decades.

How short is human memory, especially when it comes to events that goes against ones narrative…. Do you remember General Lebed and his role in  Russian presidential elections in 1996, when (with heavy support of USA-provided “Political Technologists” who were just non-existent in Russia before that) President Eltsin “won” the race. Putin was just 3rd rate official back than (aid to Presidential administration head) Now this CIA guys and their civil analogues rose to the top of US politics and bring their experience to domestic use. Wait for secret jails, torture tours abroad and drone bombings (and, again, you will call it Putin's methods)

original.jpg

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1 hour ago, Stefan Fredriksson said:

You are way too nice. The traitors should face firing-squads. Or at least life, preferably in work-camps.

I am no communist and do not want to kill people because they have a different opinion, but that is what coming if Bidden wins.

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16 minutes ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

No, it's nothing at all like it.

Democracy allows discourse, complaints, displeasure. People don't HAVE to accept him as president, but the system does, and did. That in itself is nothing comparable to what Trump is trying to do, bend the system to his will, and change the result of a national election. Let's call it what it is, it's a attempted coup.

Sorry Stuart but me, cynical Russian, is too well aware of what kind of discourse Western sort of democracy is about. I was standing under this bridge when tanks were firing on Parliament (and Vice-president) who went against the rule of other gang of “democrats”. For long time West was able to capitalize on this type of events abroad – but nothing is firever and it is only question of time we will see this type of discussions in Moral Highgrounds.

 scale_1200

I got news for you: “system” is not some kind of machine, it is just group(s) of people with own interests (not always in line with public or state interests, and not even always legal). And if this people in quantity significant enough prefer to follow own interests – the “system” will follow.

 

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