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8 hours ago, Brian Kennedy said:

It’s Steve Bannon’s “flood the zone with shit” strategy (which he either copied from Russian disinformation ops or was serendipitous). It takes much more effort to address and refute bullshit than to spout bullshit. The strategy only works if you have no sense of shame and your audience continues to have faith in you no matter how many times you’re proven wrong. Basically same dynamic as terrorists vs governments — one side only has to be right once, other side has to be right every time. 

There are closer similarities than that. We probably all know well the 'Political Technology' method Putin has used to remain in power, its to fund candidates that are similar in opinion to his most likely opponents and split their vote. They have used that time and again down the past 2 decades. Well it seems someone was paying attention, because there seems to have been some meetings between the Trump campaign and Kanye West in the lead up to the election, essentially to do exactly the same thing.

https://www.tmz.com/2020/08/12/kanye-west-met-with-jared-kushner-colorado-campaign-trump/

I cant say they were funding him, it certainly does seem they were going all out to encourage him.

 

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4 hours ago, Der Zeitgeist said:

Oooh, nice job tracking that down! I was always wondering how that entire story came into the world.

Actually that explanation (with aforementioned benevolent undertones) was linked to on another board, I just pulled up a more original source. I was dimly aware of the Zwickau event, but had it mixed up myself with the September raid on the former Bundeswehr bunker in Rhineland-Palatinate that had been turned into a Darknet server farm as possible inspiration for the story. 

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https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8968699/Two-inquiries-Trumps-taxes-expand-include-write-offs-Ivankas-consulting-fees.html

New York’s Attorney General subpoenas the Trump Organization for records related to consulting fees including a $748k 'write-off' Ivanka received - as she slams probe for being 'motivated by raging NYC Democrats'

  • Two New York investigations into Donald Trump's taxes have expanded to probe tax write-offs made on millions of dollars of consulting fees
  • According to a Thursday report, Ivanka Trump received some of those payments
  • The Manhattan District Attorney’s office and the New York Attorney General’s office have issued subpoenas to the Trump Organization in recent weeks  
  • There’s no indication that Ivanka is the focus of either probe but she slammed the development as an attack 'motivated by politics and rage by NYC Democrats'
  • Donald Trump's tax filings show the Trump Organization once paid $747,622 to a consultant for hotel projects that was claimed as tax deductions
  • In Ivanka’s own public disclose forms filed when she joined White House in 2017 she reported receiving that exact sum for consulting fees    
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https://meaninginhistory.blogspot.com/2020/11/the-mcinerney-theory.html

 

Quote

A big H/T to commenter BoxTop, who linked to a fascinating 20 minute interview with retired USAF General Thomas McInerney (see below--from my perspective a riveting listen).

McInerney explains how the election was stolen--but you've heard about that. He also has a theory about what he thinks is going to happen.

McInerny's theory is that the Trump team is going to go straight to the SCOTUS to seek relief. The reason is simple enough: Because the fraud that took place took place on such an enormous scale--essentially nationwide--that it's impossible to challenge the theft and aggregate the evidence state by state. Yet, what happened is so egregious and so unprecedented that there must be action taken. Only the SCOTUS can adequately address this threat to our constitutional order in a timely manner.

(...)

 

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10 hours ago, sunday said:

As a bonus, Wikileaks on Smartmatic. Nice overview of the origins of the company.

I do not read the Bezos Blog, sorry.

Smartmatic accuses Venezuelan government from election fraud

Yep, they're good goons of the Chavezian regime...

Also, Smartmatic machines were not apparently used anywhere in the 2020 US presidential elections except Los Angeles.

Vote count machine controversy is nothing new, similar accusations were made in 2016 elections, ironically by Democrats! Nothing ever came out of it.

Vote count machine irregularities are trivially easy to check. Just hand-count the votes again and see if they match. Vote count machine companies run a business based on integrity, and if a major discrepancy was actually found, their business would be destroyed forever.

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Only the best people.

https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-donald-trump-lawsuits-voting-elections-8347b778b9a5cadacb528c3badd22164?utm_campaign=SocialFlow&utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=AP_Politics

Quote

Trump’s election lawsuits plagued by elementary errors

When President Donald Trump sends lawyers to court, it seems he’s not sending his best.

Fighting to challenge an election he lost to President-elect Joe Biden, Trump has launched a barrage of lawsuits across the country. Top Republicans have stood behind him and said they will wait for those cases to be resolved before officially recognizing the winner, a standard that has no modern precedent.

But his attorneys have repeatedly made elementary errors in those high-profile cases: misspelling “poll watcher” as “pole watcher,” forgetting the name of the presiding judge during a hearing, inadvertently filing a Michigan lawsuit before an obscure court in Washington and having to refile complaints after erasing entire arguments they’re using to challenge results.

“The sloppiness just serves to underscore the lack of seriousness with which these claims are being brought,” said Rick Hasen, a law professor at the University of California, Irvine.

Trump’s legal team has lost repeatedly in court and failed to uncover the kind of widespread fraud that might challenge Biden’s leads in several key battleground states. His lawyers and allies have still pressed forward with asking judges and certification authorities to block the results.

Former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani and other Trump lawyers held a press conference Thursday in which they berated reporters for questioning their claims and cited a Michigan affidavit already dismissed by a judge. They also argued a debunked conspiracy theory that Venezuela could have hacked election results through machines used by local authorities.

“I know crimes. I can smell them,” Giuliani said as streaks of sweat and what appeared to be hair dye ran down the sides of his face. “You don’t have to smell this one. I can prove it to you 18 different ways.”

Experts have noted that Trump is not employing the Republican Party’s top election lawyers, including those who represented the GOP in the Florida recount two decades ago. Law firms have faced public pressure from Trump opponents not to fight the election on his behalf. Legal giant Porter Wright Morris & Arthur withdrew from a case in Pennsylvania last week.

Attorneys at the larger, more established firms that had been representing Trump have expressed concern privately about pushing a legal strategy without a body of evidence, and worry that it’s wrongly furthering a false narrative that the election was fraudulent, according to two people familiar with the litigation. The people were not authorized to speak about litigation and spoke to The Associated Press on condition of anonymity.

The day before a major argument in Pennsylvania, three lawyers for Trump withdrew and were replaced in part by Marc Scaringi, an attorney and talk show host who wrote a blog post after the election referring to “President-elect Joe Biden.” Scaringi himself had told listeners on his radio show days after the election that “there are really no bombshells” about to drop “that will derail a Biden presidency,” and noting that several of the lawsuits “don’t seem to have much evidence to substantiate their claims.”

Much of the derision has focused on Giuliani, who appeared in court on Tuesday in the Pennsylvania case. It was the first time he had represented a client in federal court in almost three decades.

During the hearing, Giuliani forgot the name of an opposing lawyer, misstated the name of the presiding judge and mistook the meaning of the word “opacity.”

Hasen pointed to Giuliani’s apparent lack of knowledge of the meaning of “strict scrutiny,” the highest of three standards used by judges to evaluate how a law or action taken by the government affects someone’s constitutional rights. The Trump campaign has claimed without providing evidence that Pennsylvania violated voters’ rights by allegedly allowing election fraud.

Strict scrutiny is a basic concept taught to aspiring lawyers and constitutional law classes.

“I’ve never seen an election lawyer handle a case as poorly as Giuliani has,” Hasen said. “The idea that the lawyer arguing the most important case in Pennsylvania would not understand what it means to apply the standard of strict scrutiny in a constitutional case is mind-boggling.”

On Wednesday, the Trump campaign asked to file a new complaint in Pennsylvania partly to “restore claims which were inadvertently deleted,” according to their filing. An attachment to the filing, in citing state election law, references “only one pole watcher” instead of “poll watcher.”

Experts say Trump has almost no chance of reversing his loss.

“It’s kind of a fallacy to say, well, Trump might be doing better if he had better lawyers,” Hasen said. “Part of the reason he doesn’t have good lawyers is he doesn’t have good claims to bring.”

___

Associated Press writers Colleen Long and Jill Colvin in Washington and Alanna Durkin Richer in Boston contributed to this report.

 

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5 minutes ago, Der Zeitgeist said:

 

True. But the pressure and harassment his legal team is subject to are scaring away the best talent. Not something you expect in a democratic republic.

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At the end of the day, 5-6 million more Americans voted for Biden and even electorally, Trump would have to prove fraud on the order of tens of thousands of votes in three separate states. So far, absolutely no evidence presented in a court. Nada, zilch.

In 2000 and 2016, the democrats largely gave up and didn't make ass of themselves as the GOP is now. They are so desperate to get GA voters out on Jan 5th they will literally say the world is flat to get conspiracy minded Trump voters to the polls. Ignorance is strength.

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I find fascinating the array of legal means available to a sitting President of the US for reasons of restoring law and order in exceptional situations like natural disasters or insurrections.
 

17 minutes ago, Josh said:

5-6 million more Americans voted for Biden

Seems that there will be no proof of that, ever.

 

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33 minutes ago, rmgill said:

Conversely we have a Georgia Democrat, Vernon Jones, doing an about face and supporting Trump. 
 

What would a former DeKalb county CEO know about this stuff?

So you have lost Fox news, including Tucker Carlson, whose report can only be described previously as rabidly endorseful. You have lost at least 2 members of congress. You have lost every court the fraud case has trailed its coats in front of, and lost 5 million people. Against that, Trump has clawed back one Democrat.

 

And lets look at that Democrat for a moment, because its highly instructive as to his possible motivation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vernon_Jones

However, Jones' term as DeKalb County CEO was also known for controversies and accusations of improprieties. Shortly after taking office Jones went back on his campaign pledge to keep the homestead exemption sales tax in place.[23] He was criticized for vetoing pay raises for police officers.[24] In January 2005, the Georgia State Ethics Commission sanctioned Jones for campaign contribution limit violations in his 2004 reelection campaign. Under a Consent Order, Jones returned all excess contributions and personally paid a $7,500 civil penalty.[25] Jones apologized and stated that changes in campaign finance laws between the initial election and the run-off election were the reason for his acceptance of nineteen improper campaign contributions.[7] He was accused of illegally using campaign funds to promote the 2005 bond referendum, but the State Ethics Commission "found no reasonable grounds" for the complaint.[26]

and,

On March 23, 2007, Jones announced he was running for the United States Senate against incumbent Republican Saxby Chambliss. Jones was criticized by his chief rival Jim Martin over his more conservative politics and past support for George W. Bush.[13] Jones' campaign was also marred by two new controversies. Jones sent out a flier in which he appeared in a digitally altered picture next to Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama with the words "Yes We Can." However, Obama himself stated he not only never posed with Jones, he did not endorse Jones or any other candidate for the Democratic nomination for Senate.[28] In response, Jones blamed his "liberal opponents backed by the liberal media" for trying to ruin his campaign.[27] Jones also received criticism for the appearance of the tagline "Vote Vernon Jones for GA Senate" on tickets, produced using county funds, for the Dekalb County Blues and Jazz Festival. The company who printed the tickets, supporters of Jones' campaign, took responsibility for the incident; saying that they were unaware campaign finance laws made such an action illegal.[29]

and,

 

On April 14, 2020, Jones became the first state elected Democratic official in Georgia to endorse President Donald Trump's re-election bid.[39] Jones said he has no plans to switch political parties and gave his reasons for the endorsement by saying "It’s very simple to me. President Trump’s handling of the economy, his support for historically black colleges and his criminal justice initiatives drew me to endorse his campaign."[40] Due to backlash from his endorsement of Trump, he announced his resignation from the Georgia House of Representatives on April 22, 2020.[5] On April 23, 2020, Jones announced on his Twitter account that he was in fact not resigning.[41] On August 24, 2020, Jones addressed the 2020 Republican National Convention and reiterated his endorsement of Trump.[42] On October 16, 2020, Jones spoke at a Trump rally in Macon, Georgia and crowd surfed afterwords, which drew criticism as it occurred in the middle of a pandemic with a mostly maskless crowd.[43]

and,

Annual Security Detail Budget

In 2003, Jones was accused of excessive spending after a news article highlighted his annual budget of $250,000 "that went towards the salary and overtime pay of his 5 member security detail". Two separate county grand juries concluded there was no criminal wrongdoing, but the security detail should be decreased.[7]

And perhaps, most tellingly of all,

On August 24, 2004, two current (Michael Bryant, John Drake) and two former (Becky Kelley, Herbert Lowe) senior employees of the Parks Department filed suit against DeKalb County, Vernon Jones (as CEO of the county), and three of Jones' subordinates (Marilyn Boyd Drew, Richard Stogner, and Morris Williams), alleging racial discrimination, or in the case of Lowe, "retaliation for refusing to assist in racial discrimination". Kelly, Bryant, and Drake were white, while Lowe was black.[46]

Attorneys for the DeKalb County defendants moved for summary judgment on the grounds of qualified immunity as state officials. On November 10, 2006, District Court Judge William Duffey rejected their summary judgment petition, holding that the law does not allow "a public official defendant to engage in calculated racial discrimination costumed in a racially neutral garb of administrative actions so it can masquerade as a qualified immunity defense".[46] On November 21, 2006, Duffey ruled that the case could go forward to a jury trial.[47] Jones and his fellow defendants then appealed the denial of their summary judgement motion. On July 31, 2009, the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals upheld the District Court judge's rejection of the Defendants' motion for summary judgment on the grounds of qualified immunity. Judge Gerald Bard Tjoflat, writing for the court, stated in the ruling that "DeKalb County, Georgia [had] embarked on a wholesale plan to replace its white county managers with African Americans" and that Vernon Jones had "devised the plan and monitored its execution".[46]

In March 2010, the case was finally heard by a jury. During the trial plaintiffs' attorneys called witnesses from across county government in an attempt to demonstrate a countywide policy of discrimination. Jones denied any discrimination against white employees. He testified that "I wanted the best and the brightest. That meant blacks, whites, Asians, Latinos, Republicans, Democrats, Independents, gay, straight, anybody who wanted to work for DeKalb County. I wanted everybody to have a seat at the table".[48] Other testimony revealed that during the first five years of Jones' term in office, the number of white senior county managers had dropped from 61 to 57, and the number of African-American senior county managers had risen from 33 to 61.[49]

On April 2, 2010, the jury awarded damages to two of the four plaintiffs. Michael Bryant, who died before the trial, and John Drake. The jurors found that Jones, his former executive assistant, Richard Stogner, and former parks director Marilyn Boyd Drew, were liable only for $185,000 in damages, substantially lower than the $2 million requested by plaintiffs. While DeKalb County was found liable, the jury cleared Jones of any racial discrimination. However, Jones was still found to have "created and maintained a hostile work environment".[48] Jones was ordered to personally pay $27,750[50] of the damages, which was covered by the DeKalb County's $50,000 liability insurance policy on its employees.[51]

While the verdict was initially hailed as a victory for Jones, the judge later awarded the plaintiffs an additional $1.9 million in legal fees.[51] DeKalb County ultimately agreed to pay the plaintiffs a total of $1.3 million for legal fees and damages on the April 19th, 2011, post-trial settlement.[52]

 

So how do we sum that man up? A bullshit artist, a liar, a man who seems quite happy to empty the public purse for excessive security. A man who seems to be loathed by his own party, by his fellow African American's, and what is more, a man who clearly endorses racist policies that any other day of the week you would condemn (hell, even Trump would condemn him with that record, and surely has done Democrats who did much less), and I would entirely agree with you both. Oh, against that he crowd surfed for Trump, in a pandemic. So there is there is that.

If that is the calibre of people coming out for Trump, then he has worse problems than I thought.

Edited by Stuart Galbraith
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Stuart, You don't need to explain to me what goes on in my own county. I've been here my whole life and I'm quite familiar with how all that works (or doesn't as it stands). I'm also still rather surprised that Jones went for Trump that way. The stated fact is that because Trump made specific efforts to improve the lot of the black community in spite of all of the folks who said he was a racist, that was in fact an apparent point. That Trump didn't make a bunch of noise and then do nothing, but actually DID do things is notable. We have a LOT of noise about how someone is going to improve things but not a lot of action most of the time. You know who's been making a lot of noise and doing nothing? Atlanta's Mayor. IF of course nothing was making things worse. 

The racial issues in DeKalb are also something that are far deeper than what ever Jones was at the head of and frankly him getting behind Trump seems like a nod to the idea that things can be better without having to be so partisan on obvious racial lines. Trump is real. He doesn't need to adopt a fake black folky accent to speak to black voters. Perhaps Jones twigged to that. 

Edited by rmgill
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4 minutes ago, sunday said:

For the second time, there has not been a recount done in Georgia.

Seriously. You'd think that these supposedly intelligent and woke forum members would take the time to understand what a given thing means. 

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1 minute ago, rmgill said:

Seriously. You'd think that these supposedly intelligent and woke forum members would take the time to understand what a given thing means. 

No, the fracas of the mail-in voting/absentee ballots was enough. There are other people reading this thread, nevertheless.

Edited by sunday
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Stuart, on this particular point:

"On October 16, 2020, Jones spoke at a Trump rally in Macon, Georgia and crowd surfed afterwords, which drew criticism as it occurred in the middle of a pandemic with a mostly maskless crowd."

I have to ask, why are the same folks criticizing Jones NOT cricizing Democrats for the same faltering of protocol vis a vis COVID? Did ya miss the Pro Biden Celebration with leading democrats swigging champaign from the same bottle? 

I know, it's hard for you to understand with your rose colored BBC talking head filters on, but the standards are different for a politician depending on how they lean. 

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1 minute ago, rmgill said:

Stuart, You don't need to explain to me what goes on in my own county. I've been here my whole life and I'm quite familiar with how all that works (or doesn't as it stands). I'm also still rather surprised that Jones went for Trump that way. The stated fact is that because Trump made specific efforts to improve the lot of the black community in spite of all of the folks who said he was a racist, that was in fact an apparent point. That Trump didn't make a bunch of noise and then do nothing, but actually DID do things is notable. We have a LOT of noise about how someone is going to improve things but not a lot of action most of the time. You know who's been making a lot of noise and doing nothing? Atlanta's Mayor. IF of course nothing was making things worse. 

The racial issues in DeKalb are also something that are far deeper than what ever Jones was at the head of and frankly him getting behind Trump seems like a nod to the idea that things can be better without having to be so partisan on obvious racial lines. Trump is real. He doesn't need to adopt a fake black folky accent to speak to black voters. Perhaps Jones twigged to that. 

Ryan, I dont sneer at your perceptivity of your own nation, Im sure its much higher than mine. But if you are going to pretend a bullshit artist, a racist like Vernon Jones jumping ship to the Trump camp is somehow significant, I dont feel its too off base to point out its shortcomings.

Why do I think he is endorsing Trump? Straight up revenge against a Party he thinks is against him. Its happened before, Im sure it will happen again.

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3 minutes ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

How many electoral college votes would Georgia deliver to Trump if they proved fraud?

16, maximum.

How many electoral college votes is Trump behind?

74.

So, once again, the fraud implications don't matter to you.

Also, the way the EC votes work, they're ZERO sum. So a deduction from one side is an addition to the other. And the fraud implication in the other states are still a factor. 

 

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2 minutes ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

Ryan, I dont sneer at your perceptivity of your own nation, Im sure its much higher than mine. But if you are going to pretend a bullshit artist, a racist like Vernon Jones jumping ship to the Trump camp is somehow significant, I dont feel its too off base to point out its shortcomings.

Oh, Now you're going to lecture me about racism in my own county because you did a quick google search on Vernon Jones, Whom I suspect you've never heard of before this thread and you're an EXPERT and you can call him a racist because of the thing you just read and googled 15 minutes ago?  

That's about the most bullshit thing I've ever seen you proffer, especially in all of the shit you've written. And more especially on how you're always lecturing me for pulling info about things going on in the UK from a variety of commenters across a range of folks. 
 

2 minutes ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

Why do I think he is endorsing Trump? Straight up revenge against a Party he thinks is against him. Its happened before, Im sure it will happen again.

I can surmise a number of reasons, but going for Trump as a way of getting them back is a very fast way to being othered by the entire county's DNC establishment. DeKalb County is the county that gave our nation Cynthia McKinny as a congresswoman. The county politics are VERY umm sticky. 


But you, from your desk in the Cotswalds have even less ability to surmise than I given the depth of your knowledge on the workings of DeKalb County. Your depth on this is spilled water on the kitchen floor. 

 

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