Because Trump 2.0

[DKTanker]

55 minutes ago, R011 said:

Right of centre.  Unless otherwise specified, conservative, Conservative, or Republican.  Similarly left wing is left of centre.  Modern Liberals and Democrats, Labour, social democrats with the same caveats 

So why not just say left or right of center? Why the adjective?  Have you ever known the US media, or any media for that matter, refer to those left of center as being Left Wingers?  No? Well that's probably because adding the "right" or "left" turns the term into a pejorative.  On that note, should we now start referring to you as a left winger?  After all, at times you come across fairly left of center.

[Ol Paint]

Who gives a rip, DK?  The word "winger" didn't appear once in the last 5 pages of this thread, outside of your last two posts.  And this one.

Doug

Edited September 12 by Ol Paint

[Tim the Tank Nut]

it seems to me that the Conservative Commentator Charlie Kirk has a different connotation than Right Wing Activist Charlie Kirk...

Of course, anyone being honest would say: father of two and Christian husband Charlie Kirk

At least part of the problem is that words mean things and framing takes on a whole meaning when the people that you look up to are being killed (for their political views).  For years I've watched the Left set the terms of the debate and get to decide what words are okay and which ones aren't okay.  They set the cultural definitions.

I'm not motivated to accept that limitation anymore.  From here on out I am the one who decides what my words mean.  If I decide to call myself a right wing extremist then that is up to me. I guess it changes from day to day anyway.  Right now, my views are pretty extreme, thus making it prudent not to discuss them.

All these "middle of the road" statements are just about being heard without taking a stand for right vs wrong.  If you can't condemn this assassination outright with clarity, then don't be surprised when people think you tacitly support such actions.

In particular, on an internet forum clarity with words is important because nuance is hard to follow in text.

[NickM]

Just now, X-Files said:

via X

 

Conservative commentator Ben Shapiro has announced a nationwide college campus tour to honor his late friend and ally, Charlie Kirk, who was fatally shot during a speaking event at Utah Valley University on September 10. Despite the tragedy and growing security threats, Shapiro vows to continue defending conservative values, picking up Kirk's legacy to promote free speech amid rising tensions on campuses. Tributes from figures like former President Donald Trump underscore Kirk's impact, while Shapiro's defiant stance challenges efforts to silence conservative voices.

Uh, "Former President Donald Trump"??

[X-Files]

10 minutes ago, NickM said:

Uh, "Former President Donald Trump"??

I just work on this planet, pal.

[bfng3569]

1 hour ago, Ol Paint said:

R011's summary is on point:

Same thing it's been for a few hundred years, DKT.  

Doug

your a fool if you do and just plain wrong.

the main stream leftist media and the dems' have been doing everything they can for years and years now to associate the 'right' with what used to be called the extreme right or the far right, namely neo-nazis', racists, bigots, the worst of the worst.

and for the most part, they have succeeded.

If you haven't noticed, when covering republicans, or hate crimes (racists etc etc) there really is no longer an attempt to separate out your average run of the mill 'right winger', they are all painted with the same brush.

do you also believe they use the term MAGA or Trumper as anything other than a pejorative?

Edited September 12 by bfng3569

[DKTanker]

1 hour ago, Ol Paint said:

Who gives a rip, DK?  The word "winger" didn't appear once in the last 5 pages of this thread, outside of your last two posts.  And this one.

Doug

I detect a note of deflection.  Thank you for the confirmation.

[R011]

2 hours ago, DKTanker said:

I see.  So when someone of the left says, "Winger" when referring to somebody right of center, they aren't using the term as a pejorative, rather as a term of endearment?

To those people "Republican" is a pejorative equivalent to Nazi.

[rmgill]

4 hours ago, R011 said:

Your posts mostly, but they're wrong too.

CBC...
 

Quote

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/charlie-kirk-shot-1.7630416
U.S. right-wing activist and commentator Charlie Kirk was fatally shot in the neck on Wednesday at an event at Utah Valley University in what that state's governor described as a "political assassination."

Whom does CBC call a Left-Wing Activist? 


Look for the equivalent treatment. 

Would a democrat or a liberal in Canada be called left wing? 

Lets try it here. 

what do the left wing in this thread think of the assasination of Charlie Kirk? 

Edited September 12 by rmgill

[Ol Paint]

10 hours ago, Tim the Tank Nut said:

it seems to me that the Conservative Commentator Charlie Kirk has a different connotation than Right Wing Activist Charlie Kirk...

Of course, anyone being honest would say: father of two and Christian husband Charlie Kirk

At least part of the problem is that words mean things and framing takes on a whole meaning when the people that you look up to are being killed (for their political views).  For years I've watched the Left set the terms of the debate and get to decide what words are okay and which ones aren't okay.  They set the cultural definitions.

I'm not motivated to accept that limitation anymore.  From here on out I am the one who decides what my words mean.  If I decide to call myself a right wing extremist then that is up to me. I guess it changes from day to day anyway.  Right now, my views are pretty extreme, thus making it prudent not to discuss them.

All these "middle of the road" statements are just about being heard without taking a stand for right vs wrong.  If you can't condemn this assassination outright with clarity, then don't be surprised when people think you tacitly support such actions.

In particular, on an internet forum clarity with words is important because nuance is hard to follow in text.

In reference to the bolded part, that may be so.  However, Charlie Kirk is known for his active and public role engaging in debates on college campuses to promote his political views, moreso than being known for being a father or Christian, and has built a significant part of his business on that type of interaction.  His intent wasn't simply to write about his ideas, or go on news shows as a consultant/commentator to toss off a few lines, but to engage with large numbers of people--particularly people with neutral or opposing viewpoints--in well-publicized events to effect a change in their outlook.  That makes him an activist more than a mere commentator.  

"Activist" seems to be fairly accurate for his approach.  "Far-Right" and "Extremist" are terms that carry much more negative connotation.

He wasn't preaching the Word, although he would mention his faith when explaining how it helped shape his views.  He didn't hide his family, but they were not front and center in his debates and videos.  It's not surprising that he's described by his public persona than his personal life. 

Let's face it, Stuart posted a brief, rather innocuous, statement on hearing the news that Kirk had been shot, and a bunch of people jumped down his throat for no good reason.  You may bridle at the left-wing engaging in censorship, but that's exactly what is going on here, just with a different set of intersectional microagression collectivist games.  

Ironically, by declaring "I'm not motivated to accept that limitation anymore.  From here on out I am the one who decides what my words mean.  If I decide to call myself a right wing extremist then that is up to me. I guess it changes from day to day anyway..." you appear to have surrendered to those limitations. 

Try this substitution and consider whether you are really breaking free of the left-wing newspeak game:  "I'm not motivated to accept that limitation anymore.  From here on out I am the one who decides what my [pronouns] mean.  If I decide to call myself a [zir/zey] then that is up to me. I guess it changes from day to day anyway." 

Doug

Edited September 12 by Ol Paint

[seahawk]

In a picture

[Tim the Tank Nut]

Ol Paint, you make a fair point.  I think I understand the direction you are coming from but I am not sure you caught part of my meaning.  Let me try again.  Words mean things.  I interpret this to mean there are facts behind the words.  If I say I am a  right wing extremist then that likely means that I harbor views that most people would find extreme and those views are to the right of the political spectrum.  An example would be that I think a huge percentage of Democrats are a genuine threat to a healthy society.  That is both a true statement and an extreme right wing statement.

On the other hand if I were to say that I am a woman that is demonstrably untrue and genetically would never be true or possible.  It is simply a lie (and taken far enough a delusion of reality).  Your substitution example hinges on me not being able to accept reality.  That isn't the same as me refusing to have someone else set the terms of the debate.  I think that in the interest of trying to be understanding and show empathy that society no longer is willing to "call a spade a spade".  Note that phrase is an old one already so this is not a new problem but it is a problem soaked in the accelerant of modern communications technology.

In short, your comparison is clever and bears some thought but there's no getting around the fact that it proves my point about the definitions/meanings of words.  My notion that words have meanings is the part that I am considering unassailable.

Shifting gears a bit:

the WSJ has a piece out about the White House team tightening security and being concerned for their political safety.  The piece appears to have been written without ironic intent.  Seeing the disconnect between the author's apparent surprise at the White House reaction and the feelings of those in the White House is an example of which side of the bubble somebody is on.

The White House is concerned for their safety.  Gee, ya think?!

[Ivanhoe]

6 minutes ago, Tim the Tank Nut said:

Shifting gears a bit:

the WSJ has a piece out about the White House team tightening security and being concerned for their political safety.  The piece appears to have been written without ironic intent.  Seeing the disconnect between the author's apparent surprise at the White House reaction and the feelings of those in the White House is an example of which side of the bubble somebody is on.

The White House is concerned for their safety.  Gee, ya think?!

Leftists have a core belief that they have the right to inflict violence on their enemies. Anything which impedes that is evil. 

Thus the obsession with disarming law-abiding citizens, defunding police, etc. Heck, look at the recent news stories from Canada. Doorbell cams are now racist, or something. 

Kudos to the WH for being at least partially tuned in to reality*. The question remains as to whether conservatives in general are ever going to tune in and begin taking proper precautions. 

* There's no getting around the fact that a Republican administration is going to bring in mostly Swampers into the WH, which makes the intellectual climate align with the baseline DC nonsense. Look at the puerile discharge coming from George Conway of late. 

[Tim the Tank Nut]

again why Trump is the only one that had any chance of making a difference...

[Ivanhoe]

I'm still of the opinion that Trump should have put Bongino in charge of the Secret Service. The threat profile is going to get worse, and I haven't read of any serious house-cleaning of the protection detail side of the house. 

[rmgill]

When Obama was a community organizer and running for senate and then president, was he ever described as a left wing activist by the MSM in the US or international press? 

Edited September 12 by rmgill

[Murph]

TO our lefties:  YOU are the Nazi's, the communists, the killers, the intolerant.  You propose and applaud putting non vaxxed in concentration camps.  You propose and applaude the genocide of the Jews, you propose forced euthanasia, limitations on speech you do not like, as a history major, your program is 100% straight out of the National SOCIALIST German Workers Party (NSDAP).  You call us Nazi's but in reality, you are the ones who have adopted the hate, the intolerance, the glorification of mass murder that the Nazi's did.  YOU ARE THE NEW NAZIS. 

You applaud the murder of a man who only said: Change my mind.  But, then again that is the problem with you on the left is it not?  You cannot stand when someone goes against your groupthink, your fascist/nazi/communist indoctrination, and when they do, you respond with unthinking rage and hate.  You support the murder of one of the most decent human beings in this decade, or this part of the century.  And why, you may ask?  Because he is such an existential threat to you because he is making kids (and others) THINK, something that is anathema to the Left since like good little brownshirts and komsomol members who cannot be allowed to deviate from the official marxist/Nazi thought.  

As for the brutal, callous, murder of Charlie Kirk, the attempted murder of Donald Trump, Steve Scalise, and so many others that the your leftist brethren deem a "threat" to the Marxist/Nazi control, you own this.  It is all yours.  You are the ones who condone murder.  As for the right, we have taken it, taken it, and taken it.  We have tried to adhere to the rule of law, Morals, and decencies, and for that we are villified, murdered, and threatened with death in concentration camps.  You will claim that never happened, but it did, you will try and hide it and re-write history, but it is there.  The Left owns this.  

I am giddy at all the leftists now experiencing cancel culture for the first time, and the hysteria it is engendering.  I think, hope and pray, that you have awakened the sleeping Giant and filled him with a terrible resolve.  I hope that the death of that wonderful human being Charlie Kirk at the hands of the crazed left transvestite brings down your whole edifice.  For too long you have pumped kids full of drugs, brainwashed them, cut their gentitalia off, and it stops, if not now, then hopefully soon.

Donald Trump is going to save this country, and you on the left will go further insane, and become more violent, but I think, hope and pray that in the long run, you are crushed, and made a mere footnote in history for future generations to laugh at long and loud at the hubris, stupidity, and venality that you have showed.  I further hope and pray that the Nazi/Communist left is destroyed, legally, morally, and ethically so that it takes generations to come back, if at all.  I do not expect it to be easy, because like monsters you will bite, poison, claw, and continue to murder, not kill, but murder since that is what the Left does.  They murder, and they do it with glee.  So I hope this is the beginning of the end of the leftists who have ruined a great country, and I hope that the rage from the senseless death of Charlie Kirk, the attempted killing of Donald Trump continues, and burns hotter and brighter so that finally we can end your criminal actions, through the law, through a change in hearts and minds, but finally bring your Nazi/Communist ideology to an END.

 

 

[Murph]

11 minutes ago, rmgill said:

When Obama was a community organizer and running for senate and then president, was he ever described as a left wing activist by the MSM in the US or international press? 

No, he was gushed over and called a centrist.

[rmgill]

Thats a question for the left wingers on this thread to answer. It will be the proof of their assertion of right wing being ok and normal and not pejorative. 

Edited September 12 by rmgill

[sunday]

Charlie Kirk decided to make activism his life after West Point USMA rejected his application.

How on Earth they decided he was not officer material?

[Ivanhoe]

I'll put this here, as the online threats were most likely from LW chaos goblins;

https://justthenews.com/government/security/us-naval-academy-student-shot-after-mistaking-officer-threat-amid-lockdown
 

Quote

 

A student at the U.S. Naval Academy in Annapolis, Md., was shot Thursday evening by a law enforcement officer in an apparent case of mistaken identity during a security lockdown.

The midshiman thought the officer was a possible attacker or shooter and stuck him with a parade rifle used for training. The officer then shot the officer, according to a news report.

The academy was locked down as local authorities were investigating online threats made by someone who had been kicked out of the institution, an unnamed source told NBC News. 

The midshipman was injured while Naval Security Forces were clearing a building. Students and faculty were ordered to shelter in place while a security sweep took place.

The midshipman whom the law enforcement officer shot was hospitalized and is expected to recover.

The former student who made the threats against the academy on social media was not on campus but used an IP address to make it appear as though they were. The person is believed to have made the threats while at home.

 

Kudos to the middie for having the balls to service what he or she thought was the threat with the tools at hand. I'm guessing that the "law enforcement officer" was in plainclothes. That said, even if he/she recovers, graduates, and can pass a physical, he/she is going to be a terminal O-1 in the Navy. Installation leadership is going to put the blame on the middie rather than the LEO, and with that letter of reprimand in your "jacket" he/she is more likely to win the Powerball than catch a promotion to O-2. Imagine doing all the things in high school to get in, then 4 years of stress and exhaustion, then being pushed out after 5 hoping the VA can assist with your injury (after a 6 month wait).  

When I worked on post, the building I was in was kinda known for bomb threats/death threats. Didn't happen during my time there, at least during the hours I was in the building, but happened to my predecessor. BLUF, when the building PA system orders everyone to freeze in place, when Post Police comes around you better freeze like a human statue or you are in for a Very Bad Time. 

 

[seahawk]

38 minutes ago, sunday said:

Charlie Kirk decided to make activism his life after West Point USMA rejected his application.

How on Earth they decided he was not officer material?

Diversity targets to be met. 

[Stuart Galbraith]

16 hours ago, DKTanker said:

What exactly does "right wing" mean to you?

Not left wing? 

[JWB]

More good guys with guns works? Who woulda thunk it?

 

[Stargrunt6]

It turns out you can just stop crime.