Because Trump 2.0

[glenn239]

I think that lack of warning was the point, DkTanker

[DKTanker]

1 hour ago, glenn239 said:

I think that lack of warning was the point, DkTanker

Yes, well, I can't help but remember the outcry when the Biden administration droned seven children and three adults in Afghanistan, one of the adults being an aid worker from California.  It should have been a wake up call, I guess not.

Edited September 9, 2025 by DKTanker

[Mr King]

Trump gave the left a huge gift by his gaslighting on the Epstein affair and he deserves it. This is supposedly a letter Trump sent to Epstein on his birthday. 

 

[R011]

A birthday years before anyone realized Epstein was a criminal.  It  is well known that Trump used to be a pal back then and had a falling out well before Epstein was first investigated.   Assuming, of course, the letter is genuine.

[rmgill]

2 hours ago, DKTanker said:

Yes, well, I can't help but remember the outcry when the Biden administration droned seven children and three adults in Afghanistan, one of the adults being an aid worker from California.  It should have been a wake up call, I guess not.

Kinda more clear with a go-fast that has what is supposedly $200,000 in engines, on an open hull boat, in open ocean with bales of contraband in view? Kinda more clear than 7 children and 3 adults who were moving water...

I'm more of the mind that Spending a hellfire vs some .50 rounds into engines and then boarding the boat and seizing the assets. 

But as was noted, this is a long standing point. My new boss was in the Navy and did gunnery and boarding and inspection as an officer. He sees this as OLD school rules that somehow we've been unable to find those rules until Trump. 

Oh, also, that wasn't Biden doing the droning, that was the Autopen. 😉

 

Edited September 9, 2025 by rmgill

[futon]

2 hours ago, Mr King said:

Trump gave the left a huge gift by his gaslighting on the Epstein affair and he deserves it. This is supposedly a letter Trump sent to Epstein on his birthday. 

 

The left have a habit of over doing anything negative about Trump. So the effect is reveresed and ends up reinforcing Trump.

Honestly, I had expected more damage to Trump from the Epstein stuff by now. It looks like he'll be able to ride it out.

[DKTanker]

1 hour ago, rmgill said:

Kinda more clear with a go-fast that has what is supposedly $200,000 in engines, on an open hull boat, in open ocean with bales of contraband in view? Kinda more clear than 7 children and 3 adults who were moving water...

I'm more of the mind that Spending a hellfire vs some .50 rounds into engines and then boarding the boat and seizing the assets. 

But as was noted, this is a long standing point. My new boss was in the Navy and did gunnery and boarding and inspection as an officer. He sees this as OLD school rules that somehow we've been unable to find those rules until Trump. 

Oh, also, that wasn't Biden doing the droning, that was the Autopen. 😉

 

So you're good with blowing shit up and killing people, just because it's easier?  Please clarify because I didn't find your response clear at all. 
Let's be clear about what happened, that boat was in the middle of the ocean and wasn't an immediate threat to anybody.  Instead of interdicting the boat and going through the messy necessity of positively identifying what the boat was carrying and who was sailing the craft, the boat, its occupants and goods were utterly destroyed leaving no evidence behind to contradict The Story.  
The conclusion of the Bonney and Clyde story always troubled me because there was absolutely no attempt to arrest them.  Just ambushed them and killed them, the nation rejoiced, justice meted out by a sheriff with his posse. 

[rmgill]

Probably preferable to board and seize than waste a hellfire. 
 

But that also requires assets available to intercept and which have an intercept position. Which, for such a go fast, a DDG may not have had the intercept profile. 
 

I’ll reflect some of your sarcasm and ask did you even consider that maybe there were NOT any assets with the range and speed to intercept and conduct a boarding? 
 

And, is any military force only warranted of there is an immediate threat?
 

Also, the piracy of the cartels is a long running issue in the Caribbean. That we let it go on and on is beyond me. 

[Stuart Galbraith]

28 minutes ago, rmgill said:

Probably preferable to board and seize than waste a hellfire. 
 

But that also requires assets available to intercept and which have an intercept position. Which, for such a go fast, a DDG may not have had the intercept profile. 
 

I’ll reflect some of your sarcasm and ask did you even consider that maybe there were NOT any assets with the range and speed to intercept and conduct a boarding? 
 

And, is any military force only warranted of there is an immediate threat?
 

Also, the piracy of the cartels is a long running issue in the Caribbean. That we let it go on and on is beyond me. 

Put a few rounds across the bow, and then you dont have to use a Hellfire. Im not buying you need a ship to do it either. Is it that hard to whistle up a Supercobra or an Apache? Or hand the A10's over to the Coast Guard, now the USAF is trying to get rid of them. They might be outrun by most seabirds, but they will still have no trouble outrunning a cigarette boat.

The truth was, this was a spectacle. If it made a difference in the importation of drugs into the US, thats fine, I can see a utility to it. if it didnt, 11 human beings got vaporized so Trump could swing his dick in public.  And lets face it, thats precisely what it was all about.

Just yet more action absent of policy. Which is pretty much all the  Trump white house has been so far.

[futon]

The Japanese Coast Guard can probably do a rather good job at checking ships and seizing drugs in a civilized way. Which is not bad for a branch whose budget is not part of SDF.

[urbanoid]

Interdicting and searching doesn't send the correct message. The correct message is 'WE WILL KILL YOU'.

[Stuart Galbraith]

Well the DEA is armed to the teeth. The Coast Guard is armed to the teeth. Even the RN is patrolling these seas and is armed to the teeth. But coming from South America where life is cheap, does anyone really think they give a shit?  These guys are like the Chicago mob used to be. Being killed is the least of their concerns. Its either get rich or get gone.

Look, i said it on the other thread, and there is no need to repeat it ad nauseum. Absent of a cohesive anti drugs policy (or even part legalization which would make more sense sense) this wont work. But the usual people will hoorah it, applaud it, and forget it in 6 months when it turns out its not working.

The real drugs problem is not that from south America. its precription drugs from big pharma prescribed by American doctors. Unless someone is going to do B2 strikes on them, there is no reason to assume progress can be made. Its just a distraction from dealing with the real problem.

[urbanoid]

8 minutes ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

Well the DEA is armed to the teeth. The Coast Guard is armed to the teeth. Even the RN is patrolling these seas and is armed to the teeth. But coming from South America where life is cheap, does anyone really think they give a shit?  These guys are like the Chicago mob used to be. Being killed is the least of their concerns. Its either get rich or get gone.

Look, i said it on the other thread, and there is no need to repeat it ad nauseum. Absent of a cohesive anti drugs policy (or even part legalization which would make more sense sense) this wont work. But the usual people will hoorah it, applaud it, and forget it in 6 months when it turns out its not working.

The real drugs problem is not that from south America. its precription drugs from big pharma prescribed by American doctors. Unless someone is going to do B2 strikes on them, there is no reason to assume progress can be made. Its just a distraction from dealing with the real problem.

Perfect, you can make a lot of them gone. Still worthwhile even if it doesn't solve the problem. 

[futon]

1 hour ago, urbanoid said:

Interdicting and searching doesn't send the correct message. The correct message is 'WE WILL KILL YOU'.

They can kill if necessary.

https://www.nippon.com/en/features/c04503/

 

[Stuart Galbraith]

Well if you want to make a SINKEX with live targets, then fine. Im just saying that wasnt the point. To hear Rubio speak, you would think they sank the Bismark and the Yamato combined, and that it would make a huge contribution to the war on drugs. Clearly it will be barely a ripple, particularly in comparison to some of the other ships out there.

I was watching something the other day. In 2023 the Irish Navy seized a vessel called the MV matthew, a 28000 ton cargo ship. It was touch and go, because the Irish navy had only one functional warship at the time, and they only had one functional helicopter. But they assaulted it, took it over, and it was a pretty tidy job actually. Found out that the vessel at 2.2 tonnes of Cocaine on board, with a value of 157 million Euros. 8 people were arrested.

Thats the scale of the challenge, that they can buy up 28000 cargo vessels, flag them with a panama flag, and sail them where they please. And these guys are plinking cigarette boats, and proclaiming an end to the war on drugs? Its ridiculous.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c20pvp58rgxo

 

 

[urbanoid]

Just now, futon said:

They can kill if necessary.

https://www.nippon.com/en/features/c04503/

 

It's different when killing is an outlier meaning that something went wrong and when killing is policy and means that something went... exactly right. I suspect that for Trump it's the latter. 

 

[futon]

Just now, Stuart Galbraith said:

Well if you want to make a SINKEX with live targets, then fine. Im just saying that wasnt the point. To hear Rubio speak, you would think they sank the Bismark and the Yamato combined, and that it would make a huge contribution to the war on drugs. Clearly it will be barely a ripple, particularly in comparison to some of the other ships out there.

 

That's another thing.. they talk highly of the operation that bombed Iran with B-2 bombers. Of course, careful planning and coordination was necessary. But they talk as if it was a whole campaign. The whole was only 36 hours long. And it came after Israel had already opened the door for it. 

All the over talk risks the loss of balanced perception.

[futon]

1 minute ago, urbanoid said:

It's different when killing is an outlier meaning that something went wrong and when killing is policy and means that something went... exactly right. I suspect that for Trump it's the latter. 

 

Too much hardball is a slippery slope. The boisterous support to it doesn't help.

[rmgill]

1 hour ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

Put a few rounds across the bow, and then you dont have to use a Hellfire.

Again, you have to have rotary wing assets in the area with endurance to do so. 
 

We also don’t know all of the details for why the USN decided to do a small sinkex vs a board and search. 
 

The presence of hostiles would dictate. 
 

 

 

Does anyone here lose sleep when security types shoot up Pirate boats off the east coast of Africa? 

1 hour ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

 

 

Im not buying you need a ship to do it either. Is it that hard to whistle up a Supercobra or an Apache?

Range. Look at a frikken map. 

1 hour ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

Or hand the A10's over to the Coast Guard, now the USAF is trying to get rid of them.
 

How exactly is a GAU-8 run less damaging than a hellfire? 

1 hour ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

The truth was, this was a spectacle. If it made a difference in the importation of drugs into the US, thats fine, I can see a utility to it. if it didnt, 11 human beings got vaporized so Trump could swing his dick in public.  And lets face it, thats precisely what it was all about.

Better to swing dick than put up your tail and bite the pillow. 

 

Action is policy  

 

[rmgill]

8 minutes ago, futon said:

That's another thing.. they talk highly of the operation that bombed Iran with B-2 bombers. Of course, careful planning and coordination was necessary. But they talk as if it was a whole campaign. The whole was only 36 hours long. And it came after Israel had already opened the door for it. 

All the over talk risks the loss of balanced perception.

You are missing months of movements to put B2s into Diego as well as tankers. That exercise had a point even if they eventually flew from Conus. Likely it was a feint or was done to escalate Iranian activity and then allay it when they flew back home. 

[urbanoid]

(kinda based)

https://x.com/Geiger_Capital/status/1965024739459780653

 

[futon]

1 minute ago, rmgill said:

You are missing months of movements to put B2s into Diego as well as tankers. That exercise had a point even if they eventually flew from Conus. Likely it was a feint or was done to escalate Iranian activity and then allay it when they flew back home. 

Movements needing months make it less impressive. Such slow movements would mean USS Yorktown not making it in time for the Battle of Midway. 

[Stuart Galbraith]

3 minutes ago, rmgill said:

Again, you have to have rotary wing assets in the area with endurance to do so. 
 

We also don’t know all of the details for why the USN decided to do a small sinkex vs a board and search. 
 

The presence of hostiles would dictate. 
 

 

 

Does anyone here lose sleep when security types shoot up Pirate boats off the east coast of Africa? 

Range. Look at a frikken map. 

How exactly is a GAU-8 run less damaging than a hellfire? 

Better to swing dick than put up your tail and bite the pillow. 

 

Action is policy  

 

Again, this is why most other navies have relatively cheap Frigates so they can do stuff like that. Your coast guard cutters have helicopter decks, right? So how hard is it to coordinate an interservice operation?

Or  put it this way, you have the ability to build invisible bombers to go and bomb the other side of the planet, but its completely beyond you to be able to do stuff like this? 

https://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/news/2025/march/14/20250314-hms-lancaster-hits-illegal-drugs-network

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c861vlpw24wo

https://www.forcesnews.com/services/navy/hms-trent-makes-royal-navy-history-after-latest-ps160m-cocaine-seizure-narco

https://www.forcesnews.com/technology/sea-vessels/blow-dealt-caribbean-cocaine-trade-royal-navy-warship-seizes-more-ps40

I dont kid myself that this is making much of a difference to anything. But its arguably somethign of an order removed from blowing up a speedboat and pretending the war of drugs is over. 

Action as policy, or action as kabuki theatre to keep you all amused and distracted?

 

[futon]

Rather than Kabuki, its WWE.

Edited September 9, 2025 by futon

[rmgill]

3 minutes ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

Again, this is why most other navies have relatively cheap Frigates so they can do stuff like that. Your coast guard cutters have helicopter decks, right? So how hard is it to coordinate an interservice operation?

How many small boats are crossing the English Channel to smuggle migrants and contraband? Up to 13 a day in 2025? 

 

3 minutes ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

Or  put it this way, you have the ability to build invisible bombers to go and bomb the other side of the planet, but its completely beyond you to be able to do stuff like this? 

We're doing both. But the Biden admin let it all slide, so the Trump admin is re-aligning priorities. 

Again, I'll note that the Surface War folks have had issues for the past decade and the Trump admin is probably working to fix that. 
 

3 minutes ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

I dont kid myself that this is making much of a difference to anything. But its arguably somethign of an order removed from blowing up a speedboat and pretending the war of drugs is over. 

What's the US illegal immigration at current? What was it a year ago? 

What's the UK's illegal immigration at current? You had up to 25,000 arrive this year alone, just by small boat. 

We have a land border with Mexico which is anything from urban terrain, desert and scrubland with a river that's easy to wade through. Not the English channel. 
 

3 minutes ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

Action as policy, or action as kabuki theatre to keep you all amused and distracted?

I expect it's more along the lines of sending messages to the Cartels. 

Again, how many small boats are crossing the Channel? What's the difference in span of coastline?