Because Trump 2.0

[rmgill]

The Third world nation peacekeeping with Parolees for cash is not a great idea..

[futon]

57 minutes ago, Ivanhoe said:

Mongolia participates in some UN peacekeeping actions. They've been to the Crimean peninsula before, some years ago.

It'll have to be from European countries, which they may be willing to do so.

https://kyivindependent.com/europe-quietly-developing-plan-to-send-peacekeeping-troops-to-ukraine-ap-reports/

I wouldn't be particularly against the idea of JSDF sending a contingent as well to help expand scope of supporters. 

[Stuart Galbraith]

9 hours ago, Stargrunt6 said:

Why give the Russians any more samples of our tech?

Ukraine's leadership failed her people and it's a damn shame. They (the leasership) were more concerned about money laundering and shopping sprees in Switzerland than they were about saving their country. Just like Afghanistan and Vietnam, they were more concerned about short-term gain than their own sovereignty. 

I'm not even sure the average Ukrainian wants this war to keep going.

 

 

Europe let itself get intimidated by not joining in, in spite of Russia and Belarus literally bordering some of their nations and focusing their mkst of their defensive structure into stopping them. North Korea sure wasn't afraid of western nukes.

And yes the Biden administration did a great job in tying a lot of hands. Ukraine should have been weapons free with deep strikes eons ago. Obama should have given more than blankets.

Zelensky is just buying time from his inevitable fall from power... or worse.

 

Yeah, Trump's wrong. If you want to know who's really to blame for the invasion, it's this guy:

 

Because you cant have an arms race without giving the other side a head start?

Ukraines leadership did not fail Ukraine, except on one single point. They did not fight for Crimea. The reason why they didnt fight for Crimea is that Barak Obama rang up the Ukrainian leadership and begged them not to fight, because it might start a war. Which pretty much underlines the right wings critique of Obama as a gutless wonder, and Biden was his schoolmaster and pupil as far as weakness is concerned.

I mean absolutely no disrespect to you, or any of your Trump supporters here. I really dont, truly. This is not a rope I particularly enjoy pissing up. But Trump was actively regurtiating Russian propaganda, and pretending it was fact. It wasnt. Ukraine did not at any point deserve to be invaded, and that Russia fabricated atrocities by wheeling bodies out of a medical hospital and putting them in a car and torching them is prime evidence of the fact.

Ukraine was invaded because Putin wanted it, pure Imperialism. This is no more complicated to understand than Saddam Hussein invading Kuwait, or Mussolini invading Ethiopia. And it does no help to try to understand the situation by repeating Russian lies, when they have been proven time and again to be serial liars. Whether its MH17, the Salisbury poisonings, the invasion of Georgia or the invasion of Crimea. War today is accompanied by a barrage of lies, and im sorry to say, with your media establishment as shit as it is, few of you still seem to be up to telling the wheat from the chaff.

Yes,I know,  I keep banging this drum till its old and worn, but the tune is still true.

[urbanoid]

10 hours ago, futon said:

The sensible thing to help them with the tools they need, for the purpose of fighting back the Russian's to wither Pre February 2022 borders or to Pre 2014 borders, has passed. 

The Europeans know this point, and have openly stated this point, but maybe it needs to be reminded, European tank and drone industries should have started recovery and expansion ever since 2014 with the little green men invasion in Eastern Ukraine and the Blitz annexation on Crimea. 

Or it should have started recovery and expansion in any of the years from 2015 to 2021. Mind you, if the Europeans were paying attention, in 2017, US war with DPRK was a real possibility. An incrediable indication that the US could be bogged down elsewhere. And the ME.. it should never be assumed that another war with US involvement there won't happen again. And all these years, the US was still in Afghanistan. The So Europe should have realized that they need to do the bulk share in the European region. The Europeans didn't take all this into enough consideration. Still were buying large amounts of Russian gas.

Or even if not then, then European tank and drone industries should have started in Dec 2021 and Dec 2022 with Russian "practices" on the Ukraine border. This denial can't hide behind "oh well in hindsight we know but". Such large cobcentrations on the Ukrainian border along with all the Russian rhetoric towards Ukraine. And still "they'll never invade, too much costs, blah blah". The naivety of so many people to take that moment so lightly. 

But if greatly bending over to be excusable to not even then for European tank and drone industry to kick into immediate high gear, when the invasion actually happened and Ukrainian resolve was clearly demonstrated, still the European tanks poured in only peacemeal. 

For my feelings, I wished Japan was able to contribute more. Much more. Cold War tanks clearly still proved valuable so long as anti-drone coverage can be provided. 

There's some recent talk about how tank days are done with Ukraine war as an example. But the Ukraine wasn't provided enough tanks for a proper offensive. They mounted one in the south, with like 50 or so as it was said. A full blown counter offensive with only 50? They had much fewer mine clearing tanks. Armored divisions is what's needed to incur losses but still smash through and blast away in direct fire with air/drone cover.

It would take some tanks away from JGSDF units for awhile but it could have been feasible for Japan to commit 200 Type 74s. Maybe launch a program to get them to a modernized version. That was my feelings.  But that hypothetical 200 Type 74s should still be proportionate to Europe's total contribution. So, it should have been at least 1,000 tanks. Leo 1s, Leo 2s, various T-72s or whatever. If And then a counter offensive in the south with armored divisions.. not 50 tanks. Tanks from Biden's 2.0 "Arsenal of Democracy" shouldn't even been needed. He still provided the patriot misdiles, HIMARs, and space based intel. Y'all even relied on Turkey of all places, to provide the attack drones. 

At that rate of support, it was only a matter of time that the US population sentiment would be exhausted. A rate Putin could count on. And a rate that the Europeans should have expected. 

All that, is already 100% known. So the bitter pill has arrivd. Whining about swallowing it down is just making it worse. Claims on Greenland or Canada or Gaza however one feels towards that, cannot remove that bitter pill from the plate.

 

Poland alone delivered between 300 and 400 tanks, last time I checked we were in Europe.

EDIT: You are right, it would be somewhat proportional compared to Europe as a whole - the word I missed the first time, I can only say that it was before having a second coffee.

Edited February 20 by urbanoid

[Stuart Galbraith]

Poland has done magnificently on this.

[futon]

1 hour ago, urbanoid said:

Poland alone delivered between 300 and 400 tanks, last time I checked we were in Europe.

EDIT: You are right, it would be somewhat proportional compared to Europe as a whole - the word I missed the first time, I can only say that it was before having a second coffee.

Fair enough to explicitly point out Poland's share in supplying tanks. 

[Olof Larsson]

18 hours ago, DKTanker said:

How many troops, people, humans has Sweden sent?  Tossing baubles to the poor and then walking away without a care.  Big of you.

The same number that every other nation have sent. Not a single one...

[glenn239]

5 hours ago, futon said:

Fair enough to explicitly point out Poland's share in supplying tanks. 

A quick check indicates that the USA has supplied in excess of 4,400 military vehicles to Ukraine ranging from Humvees, Strkyers, Bradleys, M113's, and artillery systems, etc.

[Stuart Galbraith]

1 hour ago, glenn239 said:

A quick check indicates that the USA has supplied in excess of 4,400 military vehicles to Ukraine ranging from Humvees, Strkyers, Bradleys, M113's, and artillery systems, etc.

Considering most of those were unarmoured hummers the Ukrainians are now armouries themselves, I'm not greatly impressed. It's still 31 Abrams and its still crap.

[Stargrunt6]

Here we go

https://x.com/RealJessica05/status/1892656768645308469

 

[Ivanhoe]

Oh HELL yeah!!!

 

[DKTanker]

5 hours ago, Olof Larsson said:

The same number that every other nation have sent. Not a single one...

Thank you for reinforcing my point.

[Ivanhoe]

I wonder what the over/under is for Tom Hanks flying to Greece ahead of the Kashening.

 

 

[Stargrunt6]

https://x.com/DefiyantlyFree/status/1892684187469283592

VDH has some words.

[Stargrunt6]

8 minutes ago, Ivanhoe said:

I wonder what the over/under is for Tom Hanks flying to Greece ahead of the Kashening.

 

 

He needs to lay low since thst lame ass, offensive joke he made during the Black Jeopardy skit on the last SNL episode. God that show went to the gutter.

[Ivanhoe]

8 minutes ago, Stargrunt6 said:

He needs to lay low since thst lame ass, offensive joke he made during the Black Jeopardy skit on the last SNL episode. God that show went to the gutter.

Its a lot worse than that, there are persistent rumors he is a Pedo-American and that he might be a frequent flyer on the Lolita Express.

 

[Murph]

2 hours ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

Considering most of those were unarmoured hummers the Ukrainians are now armouries themselves, I'm not greatly impressed. It's still 31 Abrams and its still crap.

Jesus, Stuart, what do you want, F'ing Nukes and B-1 Bombers?  When f'ing Europe steps up, AND there is an accounting of the money we have sent to prove it is not in some oligarch's pocket.  

[Murph]

19 minutes ago, Ivanhoe said:

Its a lot worse than that, there are persistent rumors he is a Pedo-American and that he might be a frequent flyer on the Lolita Express.

 

Rumor is that he might be.

[Ol Paint]

3 hours ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

Considering most of those were unarmoured hummers the Ukrainians are now armouries themselves, I'm not greatly impressed. It's still 31 Abrams and its still crap.

That includes several hundred Bradleys and Gavins.

Doug 

[Tim Sielbeck]

28 minutes ago, Ol Paint said:

That includes several hundred Bradleys and Gavins.

Doug 

DON'T CALL IT A GAVIN!!!

It was never named, it has always been the M113.

[R011]

3 hours ago, DKTanker said:

Thank you for reinforcing my point.

How many troops has Ukraine asked for?

[Murph]

Dipsh*t Zelenskyy is demanding US troops as part of the peace deal.  No dice, no more European messes.

[glenn239]

1 hour ago, Ol Paint said:

That includes several hundred Bradleys and Gavins.

Doug 

Over 800 of them.

[Ol Paint]

1 hour ago, Tim Sielbeck said:

DON'T CALL IT A GAVIN!!!

It was never named, it has always been the M113.

Sparky says otherwise...   

Doug

[Tim Sielbeck]

1 hour ago, Ol Paint said:

Sparky says otherwise...   

Doug

I know.  I asked him, once, what his evidence was for this and he sent me a link to a petition he had created to get the name changed.