jmsaari Posted February 19 Posted February 19 Just now, DKTanker said: No they didn't, thankfully. But then I'm not the one trying to convince others that Ukraine must fight until the last Ukrainian remains alive to fight for. That's your position. It can't be repeated enough, this is a European issue that Europe refuses to deal with in any meaningful way. Then when Orange Man Bad comes a long to say "That's enough killing, let's put this war to rest." Europeans are like, NOOOOO, we need more war so we can spend more money. And isn't it great sport to watch people being slaughtered? Bullshit, it's nobody's position that Ukraine must fight until the last Ukrainian. But it's every sensible person's position that we should do what we can to help them defend themselves and give them the tools to do so. Why did the US allow the war to start in Dec 7th 41? So much money, so many dead, surely any half-baked negotiator could've made a deal with Japan to give away only some US & its allies territory to Japan and preserve peace. And I'm sure someone as brilliant as Trump could've prevent the war in ETO as well, say 3rd Reich from only Paris to Smolensk, and maybe southern England if Hitler really insists...
Stuart Galbraith Posted February 19 Posted February 19 https://x.com/g_gosden/status/1892259506467344482?t=V_ZDNfvDwOM72alvrVCfbw&s=19 Trump gets crazier. Right that's enough for one night. Let me know when you have finished biting carpet.
Stargrunt6 Posted February 19 Posted February 19 2 hours ago, Stuart Galbraith said: He probably mistook them for the 31 Abrams. https://x.com/simon_schama/status/1892046477490274309?t=VMiU2yB29uOEeiHy6jgysg&s=19 Why give the Russians any more samples of our tech? Ukraine's leadership failed her people and it's a damn shame. They (the leasership) were more concerned about money laundering and shopping sprees in Switzerland than they were about saving their country. Just like Afghanistan and Vietnam, they were more concerned about short-term gain than their own sovereignty. I'm not even sure the average Ukrainian wants this war to keep going. Europe let itself get intimidated by not joining in, in spite of Russia and Belarus literally bordering some of their nations and focusing their mkst of their defensive structure into stopping them. North Korea sure wasn't afraid of western nukes. And yes the Biden administration did a great job in tying a lot of hands. Ukraine should have been weapons free with deep strikes eons ago. Obama should have given more than blankets. Zelensky is just buying time from his inevitable fall from power... or worse. Yeah, Trump's wrong. If you want to know who's really to blame for the invasion, it's this guy:
Sinistar Posted February 19 Posted February 19 (edited) still grasping at straws the europeans lost the 2024 election and there is no participation trophy they would not know whether to scratch their watch or wind their butt without orders from the biden administration "we don't wish to fight to the last ukrainian, but we simply must keep this crime scene going to the last ukrainian" sure just destroy more of ukraine based on cooked up fantasies by the neocons destroying ukraine in the process and what then "i know we will lower the draft age to 18." then what "to the last ukrainian" the neocons and the democrats failed that means the sick factions in europe failed Edited February 20 by Sinistar
futon Posted February 19 Posted February 19 (edited) 2 hours ago, jmsaari said: Bullshit, it's nobody's position that Ukraine must fight until the last Ukrainian. But it's every sensible person's position that we should do what we can to help them defend themselves and give them the tools to do so. Why did the US allow the war to start in Dec 7th 41? So much money, so many dead, surely any half-baked negotiator could've made a deal with Japan to give away only some US & its allies territory to Japan and preserve peace. And I'm sure someone as brilliant as Trump could've prevent the war in ETO as well, say 3rd Reich from only Paris to Smolensk, and maybe southern England if Hitler really insists... The sensible thing to help them with the tools they need, for the purpose of fighting back the Russian's to wither Pre February 2022 borders or to Pre 2014 borders, has passed. The Europeans know this point, and have openly stated this point, but maybe it needs to be reminded, European tank and drone industries should have started recovery and expansion ever since 2014 with the little green men invasion in Eastern Ukraine and the Blitz annexation on Crimea. Or it should have started recovery and expansion in any of the years from 2015 to 2021. Mind you, if the Europeans were paying attention, in 2017, US war with DPRK was a real possibility. An incrediable indication that the US could be bogged down elsewhere. And the ME.. it should never be assumed that another war with US involvement there won't happen again. And all these years, the US was still in Afghanistan. The So Europe should have realized that they need to do the bulk share in the European region. The Europeans didn't take all this into enough consideration. Still were buying large amounts of Russian gas. Or even if not then, then European tank and drone industries should have started in Dec 2021 and Dec 2022 with Russian "practices" on the Ukraine border. This denial can't hide behind "oh well in hindsight we know but". Such large cobcentrations on the Ukrainian border along with all the Russian rhetoric towards Ukraine. And still "they'll never invade, too much costs, blah blah". The naivety of so many people to take that moment so lightly. But if greatly bending over to be excusable to not even then for European tank and drone industry to kick into immediate high gear, when the invasion actually happened and Ukrainian resolve was clearly demonstrated, still the European tanks poured in only peacemeal. For my feelings, I wished Japan was able to contribute more. Much more. Cold War tanks clearly still proved valuable so long as anti-drone coverage can be provided. There's some recent talk about how tank days are done with Ukraine war as an example. But the Ukraine wasn't provided enough tanks for a proper offensive. They mounted one in the south, with like 50 or so as it was said. A full blown counter offensive with only 50? They had much fewer mine clearing tanks. Armored divisions is what's needed to incur losses but still smash through and blast away in direct fire with air/drone cover. It would take some tanks away from JGSDF units for awhile but it could have been feasible for Japan to commit 200 Type 74s. Maybe launch a program to get them to a modernized version. That was my feelings. But that hypothetical 200 Type 74s should still be proportionate to Europe's total contribution. So, it should have been at least 1,000 tanks. Leo 1s, Leo 2s, various T-72s or whatever. If And then a counter offensive in the south with armored divisions.. not 50 tanks. Tanks from Biden's 2.0 "Arsenal of Democracy" shouldn't even been needed. He still provided the patriot misdiles, HIMARs, and space based intel. Y'all even relied on Turkey of all places, to provide the attack drones. At that rate of support, it was only a matter of time that the US population sentiment would be exhausted. A rate Putin could count on. And a rate that the Europeans should have expected. All that, is already 100% known. So the bitter pill has arrivd. Whining about swallowing it down is just making it worse. Claims on Greenland or Canada or Gaza however one feels towards that, cannot remove that bitter pill from the plate. Edited February 19 by futon
R011 Posted February 19 Posted February 19 3 hours ago, DKTanker said: No they didn't, thankfully. But then I'm not the one trying to convince others that Ukraine must fight until the last Ukrainian remains alive to fight for. That's your position. It can't be repeated enough, this is a European issue that Europe refuses to deal with in any meaningful way. Then when Orange Man Bad comes a long to say "That's enough killing, let's put this war to rest." Europeans are like, NOOOOO, we need more war so we can spend more money. And isn't it great sport to watch people being slaughtered? The only people asking Ukrainians to " fight until the last Ukrainian remains alive to fight for" are Ukrainian. The rest of us want to support them so it's not necessary.
rmgill Posted February 19 Posted February 19 3 hours ago, Stuart Galbraith said: No, you are the one trying to convince the Ukrainian people that their enslavement into tyranny is for their own good. Then go get your AK display gun and defend them if you really think that.
rmgill Posted February 19 Posted February 19 5 minutes ago, R011 said: The only people asking Ukrainians to " fight until the last Ukrainian remains alive to fight for" are Ukrainian. The rest of us want to support them so it's not necessary. Thats not so clear.
Murph Posted February 19 Posted February 19 Leftist judges are out of control. Justice Roberts and the rest of the Supremes need to get control of their judges. And soon.
Sinistar Posted February 19 Posted February 19 (edited) in the process of lying distorting or suppressing the truth about the whole thing while fighting to the last ukrainian you see the whole syndrome of things going on - the censorship of information in the west as the leadership either omits the truth, alters or distorts it, or is served by the media which is doing the same thing reporting it- omitting or lying about original nato expansion up to russia's borders omitting or lying about the coup d'etat in ukraine by the obama administration and the subsequent civil war in ukraine as a result- omitting or lying about this whole sham about the freedom of speech and democracy- ukraine is neither a democracy, nor is there freedom of speech, nor does ukraine permit the free and independent movement of its citizens if it looks like the men are going to leave where it only gets out in leaks about ukrainian men attempting to flee the draft squads which kidnap them without due process if they cannot pay their bribes and there are blatant coverups by the western governments and by the western media (as it was revealed even before the usaid movie that the united states was funding a large share of ukrainian media) in all of that certainly in the west 'freedom of the press' has been basically meant to publish the story of whatever the neocons and the democrats say it has been- including lying about ukraine's progress on the battlefield, russia's imminent collapse, trump is really a russian president and so on- listening to all of this has been enlightening as it really shows the contempt for reality from anyone who is involved in it Edited February 19 by Sinistar
Mike1158 Posted February 20 Posted February 20 I was watching the news a short while ago the trumpster came on. Bleating as usual. Trumpster = Fake Nooz. SImples. I bet he has a lot of blisters on his palms.
JWB Posted February 20 Posted February 20 Trump is a homophobe!!!!!!!!!!! Waitwhat????? https://x.com/MailOnline/status/1892323171904245841
Stargrunt6 Posted February 20 Posted February 20 I swear it's like Europe is like poor Lil Doogie here. Gets smacked, insists someone else avenge him:
Mr King Posted February 20 Author Posted February 20 Quote U.S. State Department under President Trump has officially designated the following as Foreign Terrorist Organizations: - Tren de Aragua - MS-13 - Sinaloa Cartel - Jalisco New Generation Cartel - United Cartels - Northeast Cartel - Gulf Cartel - Michoacán Family https://x.com/america/status/1892287517791035803 CIA vs DOD Mexico edition
Stargrunt6 Posted February 20 Posted February 20 2 minutes ago, Mr King said: https://x.com/america/status/1892287517791035803 CIA vs DOD Mexico edition Aaand that's why we're not prioritizing Ukraine right now. Flava got problems of his own.
R011 Posted February 20 Posted February 20 2 minutes ago, Stargrunt6 said: Aaand that's why we're not prioritizing Ukraine right now. Flava got problems of his own. You can't donate AFVs, aircraft, and artillery ammunition to Ukraine because you're also engaging Mexican cartels?
Stargrunt6 Posted February 20 Posted February 20 33 minutes ago, R011 said: You can't donate AFVs, aircraft, and artillery ammunition to Ukraine because you're also engaging Mexican cartels?
futon Posted February 20 Posted February 20 30 minutes ago, R011 said: You can't donate AFVs, aircraft, and artillery ammunition to Ukraine because you're also engaging Mexican cartels? The Trump administration will still donate/sell weapons to Ukraine in the context of an end to the war. The end of the war will see the bitter result of the Ukraine losing territory and Russia gaining territory. That bitter result is because the Ukraine did not get the support it needed when it was time to get it. The donated/sold weapons would be for the purpose of defending with whatever new boundary lines.
Stargrunt6 Posted February 20 Posted February 20 (edited) Any ceasefire will delay another conflict. Unless other countries are there. It stands to reason that the best forces to occupy are from nations with direct stakes in Ukraine's security. Otherwise, goose was cooked since Minsk. Edited February 20 by Stargrunt6
futon Posted February 20 Posted February 20 Yes. International peacekeeper troops seem to be in the works.
Stargrunt6 Posted February 20 Posted February 20 57 minutes ago, Stargrunt6 said: Like I said, for free? https://www.defense.gov/News/News-Stories/Article/Article/3736017/dod-has-seen-huge-increase-in-military-sales-since-ukraine-invasion/
Sinistar Posted February 20 Posted February 20 (edited) 2 hours ago, futon said: Yes. International peacekeeper troops seem to be in the works. well where do you base them because that is an indication of where and what territory is conceded as lost by ukraine do you place them behind the dnieper forward of the dnieper in the donbas in crimea if you see what that looks like because putin has already said he is not going to return or exchange annexed territory in all cases remember that putin had already said that one of the objectives of the special military operation is a neutral ukraine as for peacekeepers- well that seems to look like nato members in ukraine and the loser's way of somehow making ukraine a base for nato after the war had been fought specifically about that from putin's perspective you have both russia and the west both saying that there is good chance this war simply continues if it is not decisive now the question is what is trump offering and whether putin calculates there is anything or nothing that trump has to offer in my view trump cannot really finesse this without putin looking at it and thinking whether or not it works in russia's favor you cannot sanction russia to force them to do anything absent of starting world war III over it what is it that trump can convince putin of unless you think that russia has a much weaker hand that it has and is really looking for a way out but if you believe that then it undermines this whole idea that russia is gearing up to invade western europe these are two completely conflicting ideas that are being used by the west to continue fighting which indicates to me incoherent or vapid objectives but i am simply not aware of the details made public yet to say either way that peacekeepers are definite at this stage none of the MSM as far as i have seen are running a front page article about any peace achieved yet it is still going Edited February 20 by Sinistar
rmgill Posted February 20 Posted February 20 2 hours ago, Mr King said: https://x.com/america/status/1892287517791035803 CIA vs DOD Mexico edition Soon...
Ivanhoe Posted February 20 Posted February 20 1 hour ago, futon said: Yes. International peacekeeper troops seem to be in the works. Mongolia participates in some UN peacekeeping actions. They've been to the Crimean peninsula before, some years ago.
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