DKTanker Posted February 19 Posted February 19 36 minutes ago, Olof Larsson said: No he doens't negotiate a cease-fire. A negotiation is impossible without both parties involved. The only thing he does right now is selling the US to Russia, while ruining the fruits of the last 85 years of US diplomacy. He shows the world that any deal signed with the US is only useful as toiletpaper. That means that no nation can lean towards the US for their security and co-operation. That in turn will largly kill US arms export, not only for complete systems, but also using components, software and so on in new domestic designs. It also means that countries like Canada, Denmark, and the UK will see very little benefit of letting the US base their assets on their territories for other purposes, then as a way the put pressure on the US, to force the US behave as mature as at least a 8 year old. When will Sweden be sending troops and arms to Ukraine?
Stargrunt6 Posted February 19 Posted February 19 36 minutes ago, Olof Larsson said: No he doens't negotiate a cease-fire. A negotiation is impossible without both parties involved. If Russia stops attacking... 36 minutes ago, Olof Larsson said: The only thing he does right now is selling the US to Russia, With what? They're broke. 36 minutes ago, Olof Larsson said: while ruining the fruits of the last 85 years of US diplomacy. That was done when NATO decided the US taxpayer will de facto bankroll the alliance. Y'all didn't even join NATO until a few years ago, physician heal thyself... 36 minutes ago, Olof Larsson said: He shows the world that any deal signed with the US is only useful as toiletpaper. If over $100bn can't make people happy... 36 minutes ago, Olof Larsson said: That means that no nation can lean towards the US for their security and co-operation. That leaning ain't cheap, yo. 36 minutes ago, Olof Larsson said: That in turn will largly kill US arms export, not only for complete systems, but also using components, software and so on in new domestic designs. Ok... 36 minutes ago, Olof Larsson said: It also means that countries like Canada, Denmark, and the UK will see very little benefit of letting the US base their assets on their territories for other purposes, then as a way the put pressure on the US, to force the US behave as mature as at least a 8 year old. No entiendo.
Stargrunt6 Posted February 19 Posted February 19 3 minutes ago, DKTanker said: When will Sweden be sending troops and arms to Ukraine? And how long did they have to do so? Gee if Crimea didn't get them off of their seat....
jmsaari Posted February 19 Posted February 19 (edited) 19 minutes ago, DKTanker said: When will Sweden be sending troops and arms to Ukraine? So you missed the CV90s and Strv122s there? (Not that it's relevant to Olof's point of how Trump is flushing US interests down the toilet with his idiocy here. Oh well, I guess the bases around the world and the troops in various sandboxes where the US decides to get involved arent that useful in the end.) Edited February 19 by jmsaari
Stuart Galbraith Posted February 19 Posted February 19 He probably mistook them for the 31 Abrams. https://x.com/simon_schama/status/1892046477490274309?t=VMiU2yB29uOEeiHy6jgysg&s=19
Olof Larsson Posted February 19 Posted February 19 16 minutes ago, DKTanker said: When will Sweden be sending troops and arms to Ukraine? Arms - Since the spring of 2022. We have sent of are about to send AEW, 200 APC's, ICV.s, tanks, combat boats, artillery systems, SAM's, anti ship missiles (well ground launched Hellfires, that we have used as light anti-ship weapons), anti tank weapons, munition and so on. The US has prevented Sweden from sending combat aircraft. Troops - The government seems willing to do so, if there is a cease-fire. And that is despite (unlike the US) Sweden not being contractually obliged to support Ukraine against the Russian war of aggression. As a percentage of GDP Sweden have sent or pledged twice as much as the US.
DKTanker Posted February 19 Posted February 19 13 minutes ago, jmsaari said: So you missed the CV90s and Strv122s there? Did they come equipped with Swedish personnel? No? Then I didn't miss a thing.
rmgill Posted February 19 Posted February 19 1 hour ago, Olof Larsson said: No he doens't negotiate a cease-fire. A negotiation is impossible without both parties involved. The only thing he does right now is selling the US to Russia, while ruining the fruits of the last 85 years of US diplomacy. I expect that Ukraine will be involved. How happy they'll be remains to be seen. Ideally both parties will be unhappy. 1 hour ago, Olof Larsson said: He shows the world that any deal signed with the US is only useful as toiletpaper. Explain how this is the case please. Perhaps Sweden can send a few Divisions of tanks to help enforce a more favorable deal for Ukraine? 1 hour ago, Olof Larsson said: That means that no nation can lean towards the US for their security and co-operation. That's a FAT lot of gumption coming from someone who's in a Nation that has had a standing policy of neutrality up until 2009. 1 hour ago, Olof Larsson said: That in turn will largly kill US arms export, not only for complete systems, but also using components, software and so on in new domestic designs. Sweden had ZERO problems exporting arms as a strictly neutral nation for how long? Didn't Sweden export Iron to Germany in WWII? Which playbook are you referring to for your rules here?
DKTanker Posted February 19 Posted February 19 7 minutes ago, Olof Larsson said: Arms - Since the spring of 2022. We have sent of are about to send AEW, 200 APC's, ICV.s, tanks, combat boats, artillery systems, SAM's, anti ship missiles (well ground launched Hellfires, that we have used as light anti-ship weapons), anti tank weapons, munition and so on. The US has prevented Sweden from sending combat aircraft. Troops - The government seems willing to do so, if there is a cease-fire. And that is despite (unlike the US) Sweden not being contractually obliged to support Ukraine against the Russian war of aggression. As a percentage of GDP Sweden have sent or pledged twice as much as the US. How many troops, people, humans has Sweden sent? Tossing baubles to the poor and then walking away without a care. Big of you.
Stuart Galbraith Posted February 19 Posted February 19 (edited) Did your Abrams and MLRS come with US Troops? Then he missed nothing. American Republicans now are waking up to what a dangerous lunatic Trump is. But still the believers seek to justify. Why? God only knows. https://x.com/simon_schama/status/1892282562518667447?t=MCGrHwTqJbrVyxCW-UOm1g&s=19 Edited February 19 by Stuart Galbraith
Stuart Galbraith Posted February 19 Posted February 19 https://x.com/stavridisj/status/1892209689930162583?t=Q7ekwjuOy-Ovx3C6iNpvgA&s=19 Particularly liked this one.
jmsaari Posted February 19 Posted February 19 8 minutes ago, DKTanker said: Did they come equipped with Swedish personnel? No? Then I didn't miss a thing. Why the hell should they have? Nobody has asked anyone to send troops while the war is ongoing, for obvious reasons.
DKTanker Posted February 19 Posted February 19 Just now, Stuart Galbraith said: Did your Abrams and MLRS come with US Troops? Then he missed nothing. No they didn't, thankfully. But then I'm not the one trying to convince others that Ukraine must fight until the last Ukrainian remains alive to fight for. That's your position. It can't be repeated enough, this is a European issue that Europe refuses to deal with in any meaningful way. Then when Orange Man Bad comes a long to say "That's enough killing, let's put this war to rest." Europeans are like, NOOOOO, we need more war so we can spend more money. And isn't it great sport to watch people being slaughtered?
DKTanker Posted February 19 Posted February 19 (edited) 3 minutes ago, jmsaari said: Why the hell should they have? Nobody has asked anyone to send troops while the war is ongoing, for obvious reasons. Right, nobody wants to get bloody, you want to sit back and marvel at the carnage. You're like your ancestors that gathered around the town square to watch criminals, political prisoners, and heretics be slaughtered in all manner of medieval ways. Great blood sport, that. Edited February 19 by DKTanker
Stuart Galbraith Posted February 19 Posted February 19 2 minutes ago, DKTanker said: No they didn't, thankfully. But then I'm not the one trying to convince others that Ukraine must fight until the last Ukrainian remains alive to fight for. That's your position. It can't be repeated enough, this is a European issue that Europe refuses to deal with in any meaningful way. Then when Orange Man Bad comes a long to say "That's enough killing, let's put this war to rest." Europeans are like, NOOOOO, we need more war so we can spend more money. And isn't it great sport to watch people being slaughtered? No, you are the one trying to convince the Ukrainian people that their enslavement into tyranny is for their own good. Spoken like a true Kremlin mouthpiece Dk, nice one. Let me know when you find your spine.
Stuart Galbraith Posted February 19 Posted February 19 Gary Kasparov pretty much nails it. https://x.com/Kasparov63/status/1892102474242154815?t=h4XEZh8M4ySUEYcItEir9w&s=19
jmsaari Posted February 19 Posted February 19 Just now, DKTanker said: No they didn't, thankfully. But then I'm not the one trying to convince others that Ukraine must fight until the last Ukrainian remains alive to fight for. That's your position. It can't be repeated enough, this is a European issue that Europe refuses to deal with in any meaningful way. Then when Orange Man Bad comes a long to say "That's enough killing, let's put this war to rest." Europeans are like, NOOOOO, we need more war so we can spend more money. And isn't it great sport to watch people being slaughtered? Bullshit, it's nobody's position that Ukraine must fight until the last Ukrainian. But it's every sensible person's position that we should do what we can to help them defend themselves and give them the tools to do so. Why did the US allow the war to start in Dec 7th 41? So much money, so many dead, surely any half-baked negotiator could've made a deal with Japan to give away only some US & its allies territory to Japan and preserve peace. And I'm sure someone as brilliant as Trump could've prevent the war in ETO as well, say 3rd Reich from only Paris to Smolensk, and maybe southern England if Hitler really insists...
Stuart Galbraith Posted February 19 Posted February 19 https://x.com/g_gosden/status/1892259506467344482?t=V_ZDNfvDwOM72alvrVCfbw&s=19 Trump gets crazier. Right that's enough for one night. Let me know when you have finished biting carpet.
Stargrunt6 Posted February 19 Posted February 19 2 hours ago, Stuart Galbraith said: He probably mistook them for the 31 Abrams. https://x.com/simon_schama/status/1892046477490274309?t=VMiU2yB29uOEeiHy6jgysg&s=19 Why give the Russians any more samples of our tech? Ukraine's leadership failed her people and it's a damn shame. They (the leasership) were more concerned about money laundering and shopping sprees in Switzerland than they were about saving their country. Just like Afghanistan and Vietnam, they were more concerned about short-term gain than their own sovereignty. I'm not even sure the average Ukrainian wants this war to keep going. Europe let itself get intimidated by not joining in, in spite of Russia and Belarus literally bordering some of their nations and focusing their mkst of their defensive structure into stopping them. North Korea sure wasn't afraid of western nukes. And yes the Biden administration did a great job in tying a lot of hands. Ukraine should have been weapons free with deep strikes eons ago. Obama should have given more than blankets. Zelensky is just buying time from his inevitable fall from power... or worse. Yeah, Trump's wrong. If you want to know who's really to blame for the invasion, it's this guy:
Sinistar Posted February 19 Posted February 19 (edited) still grasping at straws the europeans lost the 2024 election and there is no participation trophy they would not know whether to scratch their watch or wind their butt without orders from the biden administration "we don't wish to fight to the last ukrainian, but we simply must keep this crime scene going to the last ukrainian" sure just destroy more of ukraine based on cooked up fantasies by the neocons destroying ukraine in the process and what then "i know we will lower the draft age to 18." then what "to the last ukrainian" the neocons and the democrats failed that means the sick factions in europe failed Edited February 20 by Sinistar
futon Posted February 19 Posted February 19 (edited) 2 hours ago, jmsaari said: Bullshit, it's nobody's position that Ukraine must fight until the last Ukrainian. But it's every sensible person's position that we should do what we can to help them defend themselves and give them the tools to do so. Why did the US allow the war to start in Dec 7th 41? So much money, so many dead, surely any half-baked negotiator could've made a deal with Japan to give away only some US & its allies territory to Japan and preserve peace. And I'm sure someone as brilliant as Trump could've prevent the war in ETO as well, say 3rd Reich from only Paris to Smolensk, and maybe southern England if Hitler really insists... The sensible thing to help them with the tools they need, for the purpose of fighting back the Russian's to wither Pre February 2022 borders or to Pre 2014 borders, has passed. The Europeans know this point, and have openly stated this point, but maybe it needs to be reminded, European tank and drone industries should have started recovery and expansion ever since 2014 with the little green men invasion in Eastern Ukraine and the Blitz annexation on Crimea. Or it should have started recovery and expansion in any of the years from 2015 to 2021. Mind you, if the Europeans were paying attention, in 2017, US war with DPRK was a real possibility. An incrediable indication that the US could be bogged down elsewhere. And the ME.. it should never be assumed that another war with US involvement there won't happen again. And all these years, the US was still in Afghanistan. The So Europe should have realized that they need to do the bulk share in the European region. The Europeans didn't take all this into enough consideration. Still were buying large amounts of Russian gas. Or even if not then, then European tank and drone industries should have started in Dec 2021 and Dec 2022 with Russian "practices" on the Ukraine border. This denial can't hide behind "oh well in hindsight we know but". Such large cobcentrations on the Ukrainian border along with all the Russian rhetoric towards Ukraine. And still "they'll never invade, too much costs, blah blah". The naivety of so many people to take that moment so lightly. But if greatly bending over to be excusable to not even then for European tank and drone industry to kick into immediate high gear, when the invasion actually happened and Ukrainian resolve was clearly demonstrated, still the European tanks poured in only peacemeal. For my feelings, I wished Japan was able to contribute more. Much more. Cold War tanks clearly still proved valuable so long as anti-drone coverage can be provided. There's some recent talk about how tank days are done with Ukraine war as an example. But the Ukraine wasn't provided enough tanks for a proper offensive. They mounted one in the south, with like 50 or so as it was said. A full blown counter offensive with only 50? They had much fewer mine clearing tanks. Armored divisions is what's needed to incur losses but still smash through and blast away in direct fire with air/drone cover. It would take some tanks away from JGSDF units for awhile but it could have been feasible for Japan to commit 200 Type 74s. Maybe launch a program to get them to a modernized version. That was my feelings. But that hypothetical 200 Type 74s should still be proportionate to Europe's total contribution. So, it should have been at least 1,000 tanks. Leo 1s, Leo 2s, various T-72s or whatever. If And then a counter offensive in the south with armored divisions.. not 50 tanks. Tanks from Biden's 2.0 "Arsenal of Democracy" shouldn't even been needed. He still provided the patriot misdiles, HIMARs, and space based intel. Y'all even relied on Turkey of all places, to provide the attack drones. At that rate of support, it was only a matter of time that the US population sentiment would be exhausted. A rate Putin could count on. And a rate that the Europeans should have expected. All that, is already 100% known. So the bitter pill has arrivd. Whining about swallowing it down is just making it worse. Claims on Greenland or Canada or Gaza however one feels towards that, cannot remove that bitter pill from the plate. Edited February 19 by futon
R011 Posted February 19 Posted February 19 3 hours ago, DKTanker said: No they didn't, thankfully. But then I'm not the one trying to convince others that Ukraine must fight until the last Ukrainian remains alive to fight for. That's your position. It can't be repeated enough, this is a European issue that Europe refuses to deal with in any meaningful way. Then when Orange Man Bad comes a long to say "That's enough killing, let's put this war to rest." Europeans are like, NOOOOO, we need more war so we can spend more money. And isn't it great sport to watch people being slaughtered? The only people asking Ukrainians to " fight until the last Ukrainian remains alive to fight for" are Ukrainian. The rest of us want to support them so it's not necessary.
rmgill Posted February 19 Posted February 19 3 hours ago, Stuart Galbraith said: No, you are the one trying to convince the Ukrainian people that their enslavement into tyranny is for their own good. Then go get your AK display gun and defend them if you really think that.
rmgill Posted February 19 Posted February 19 5 minutes ago, R011 said: The only people asking Ukrainians to " fight until the last Ukrainian remains alive to fight for" are Ukrainian. The rest of us want to support them so it's not necessary. Thats not so clear.
Murph Posted February 19 Posted February 19 Leftist judges are out of control. Justice Roberts and the rest of the Supremes need to get control of their judges. And soon.
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now