Cowboy, Samurai, Kangaroo, Philippine Eagle, Pho, Elephant, Kiwi, Etc.

[urbanoid]

Yup, those militarist 'traditions' lasted some ~20 years, until 1945. 

[urbanoid]

Taiwan considering purchase of decomissioned LCS:

https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/4503518

[DB]

Futon, don't bite when seahawk trolls. We all know he gets his kicks by diverting topics this way, just ignore it.

[futon]

3 hours ago, DB said:

Futon, don't bite when seahawk trolls. We all know he gets his kicks by diverting topics this way, just ignore it.

His posting frequency on this topic is low, but regardless, it raises something to address once in awhile regardless where it comes from. 

[futon]

 

[DB]

On 4/24/2022 at 11:47 AM, futon said:

His posting frequency on this topic is low, but regardless, it raises something to address once in awhile regardless where it comes from. 

Really, no. It's a fallacy that you somehow validate an idiotic statement if you leave it unchallenged when it's plainly absurd, posted by an account known for weak-ass trollery and especially if you've already countered it before.

[futon]

Heh

[BansheeOne]

Kicking this up to watch Nancy Pelosi's likely Taiwan trip today. I think it's gonna happen; both sides have exposed themselves too much to back down. Which puts up the question how China is gonna react; they will have to do something, but can hardly shoot down her plane or bomb Taipei.* Some sort of particular demonstration will certainly be in order though.

 

* Says the guy who was positive that noone will annex their neighbor's territory in this day and age back in 2014.

[BansheeOne]

Here goes 

Quote

Pelosi has landed in Taiwan. Here's why that's a big deal

Updated August 2, 2022 10:54 AM ET

BARBARA SPRUNT

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., landed in Taiwan late Tuesday evening local time, and she is expected to meet members of Taiwan's legislature and President Tsai Ing-wen on Wednesday, according to a source familiar with planning for her visit.

The highly-anticipated stop has faced stark warnings from China, in turn worrying the White House that it could trigger a crisis in the Taiwan Strait and worsen already tense U.S.-China relations. China sent two Su-35 fighter jets across the Taiwan strait ahead of Pelosi's arrival, according to state broadcaster CCTV.

The visit was not announced in advance, and it comes as part of Pelosi's tour of Asia, including Singapore, Malaysia, Japan and South Korea, where she has been leading a small congressional delegation. She is the highest-ranking elected American official to visit Taiwan since then-Speaker Newt Gingrich in 1997. The source familiar with planning for Pelosi's visit says she will be given an award by Taiwan's president and visit a museum before departing on Wednesday.

The island democracy governs itself, but China claims it as its territory. Rumors of Pelosi's visit launched a geopolitical firestorm amid escalating tensions between the U.S. and China.

[...]

Pelosi's trip comes days after Biden and Xi spoke by phone on a wide range of issues, including Taiwan. Biden sought to reassure his Chinese counterpart that U.S. policy hasn't changed, saying it "strongly opposes unilateral efforts to change the status quo or undermine peace and stability across the Taiwan Strait," according to the official U.S. readout of the call.

On Wednesday, Biden told reporters the U.S. military thinks a Taiwan visit by Pelosi is "not a good idea right now."

For her part, Pelosi said "it's important for us to show support for Taiwan," during a press conference on July 21.

"I also think that none of us has ever said we're for independence when it comes to Taiwan," Pelosi said. "That's up to Taiwan to decide."

[...]

https://www.npr.org/2022/08/02/1114852740/pelosi-is-about-to-land-in-taiwan-heres-why-thats-a-big-deal?t=1659453155373

[futon]

It'll be demonstration of quite potent capability. And it does after about a year of fairly frequent PLAAF activity around Taiwan. 

[quote]Joint military exercises around the island of Taiwan by the Chinese People's Liberation Army (PLA) continued Wednesday with a joint blockade, sea assault and land and air combat trainings, involving the use of advanced weapons including J-20 stealth fighter jets and DF-17 hypersonic missiles after the drills started on Tuesday evening, when US House Speaker Nancy Pelosi landed on the island which seriously violates China's sovereignty.

The exercises are unprecedented as the PLA conventional missiles are expected to fly over the island of Taiwan for the first time, the PLA forces will enter area within 12 nautical miles of the island and that the so-called median line will cease to exist, experts said, noting that by surrounding Taiwan entirely, the PLA are completely blockading the island demonstrating the Chinese mainland's absolute control over the Taiwan question.

The PLA Eastern Theater Command on Wednesday organized its affiliated Navy, Air Force, Rocket Force, Strategic Support Force and Joint Logistic Support Force and conducted realistic combat-oriented joint exercises in the sea and air space to the north, southwest and southeast of the island of Taiwan, the PLA Eastern Theater Command said in a press release on the day.

Joint blockade, sea assault, land attack and air combat drills were at the core of the operation, as the exercises tested the troops' joint operational capabilities, said the press release.

The J-20 stealth fighter jet, H-6K bomber, J-11 fighter jet, Type 052D destroyer, Type 056A corvette and DF-11 short-range ballistic missile are among the weapons used in the drills, as shown in the photos attached to the press release.

Early warning aircraft and DF-17 hypersonic missiles also joined the exercises, according to a report by China Central Television.

Wednesday's drills came after the PLA Eastern Theater Command started joint military operations around the island of Taiwan on Tuesday evening, involving joint maritime and air exercises in the sea and in the air space to the north, southwest and southeast of the island of Taiwan, long-range live-fire shooting in the Taiwan Straits, and conventional missile test launches to the east of the island of Taiwan.
 

The PLA will also conduct important military exercises and training activities including live-fire drills in six large maritime areas and their air space surrounding the island of Taiwan, in its north, northeast, east, south, southwest and northwest, from Thursday noon to Sunday noon, the Xinhua News Agency reported on Tuesday evening.

Unprecedented actions

This is the first time the PLA will launch live long-range artillery across the Taiwan Straits, in a move that will demonstrate the PLA's firm will and strong capability to safeguard national sovereignty and territorial integrity, and thwart secessionist attempts by "Taiwan independence" and external interfering forces, Zhang Junshe, a senior research fellow at the Naval Research Academy of the PLA, told the Global Times on Wednesday.

"If the conventional missiles of the PLA were to be launched from the mainland toward the west of Taiwan and hit targets to its east, this means that the missiles would fly over the island, which is unprecedented," Chinese mainland military expert Zhang Xuefeng told the Global Times.

He also pointed out that five of the drill zones are set to the east of the so-called median line of the Taiwan Straits, and this means that the existence of the line is denied through the concrete action of the PLA.  

Some drill zones are also for the first time set to include areas within 12 nautical miles to the island of Taiwan, but since Taiwan is a part of China, Taiwan's so-called territorial sea is also China's territorial sea, Zhang Xuefeng said.

Also, the PLA drills surrounding Taiwan are intended to show that it is capable of blockading the entire island and of resolving the Taiwan question through non-peaceful ways, if the situation becomes irretrievable, observers said.

From the designated PLA military drills area, the operations could pose a threat to major ports and shipping lanes in Taiwan, forming a complete blockage. This blockage style could be one of the action plans taken in the future for achieving the reunification by force, Herman Shuai, a retired Taiwan lieutenant general, told the Global Times on Wednesday.

Two northern exercise areas designated by the PLA are located off the coast of Keelung Port and Taipei Port, the central exercise area is located off the Taichung Port, the southern exercise area is located off the Kaohsiung Port and the eastern one is located off the Hualien Port. The exercise areas are a "template" for "locking down Taiwan," Shuai said. "If the PLA exercises take a long time, it will constitute a substantial blockage of Taiwan."

The PLA' s drills this time are "comprehensive and highly targeted," showing the determination of resolving Taiwan question once and for all, Chinese mainland military expert Song Zhongping told the Global Times on Wednesday.

The drill should be viewed as a war plan rehearsal, Song said, "In the event of a future military conflict, it is likely that the operational plans currently being rehearsed will be directly translated into combat operations."

"It means that our battle plan has been made clear to the US and the Taiwan authorities, and we are confident enough to inform them of the consequences of further provocation in this way," Song said.

Comparing to the Taiwan Straits crisis in 1996, the PLA's military strength has been greatly enhanced, analysts say. 

"In 1996, we didn't have aircraft carriers, the Type 055 large destroyer, nor hypersonic missiles... Since then our ability to strike, capture and kill has greatly improved and our military options and confidence have increased," Song said.

Shuai believes that in 1996, Taiwan's self-defense capabilities were relatively strong, the PLA's projection capabilities were still insufficient, and the number of amphibious warfare ship was limited. Also the PLA's Navy Marine Corps as well as Air Force did not have absolute advantages.

Therefore, at that time, the PLA did not have the capability of completely blocking the island. It only used the method of test-launching missiles to send warnings, but it did not pose any threat to the open seas of Taitung and Hualien, not to mention to US aircraft carriers, Shuai said. "But it is different now. After so many years of rapid development, the PLA, whether it is with the Type 055 large destroyer, aircraft carriers or amphibious landing ship, now fully possesses the strength to blockade the Taiwan Island."

As Pelosi's flight was about to land, Chinese state media reported that a Su-35 fighter jet(s) of the PLA Air Force was flying across the Taiwan Straits, but Taiwan's defense authority later claimed this is fake news.

It only exposed Taiwan's weak air defense which failed to detect the PLA aircraft, observers commented.

Not intercepting Pelosi's flight does not mean a failure of the PLA. On the contrary, the Chinese mainland chose to avoid an incident that could trigger a World War III but instead to take Pelosi's Taiwan visit as a chance to push forward the progress of reunification, starting with the island-blockading, combat-rehearsing drills that could become routine, analysts said.

Mainland authorities announced on Wednesday that a number of diehard "Taiwan secessionists", two funds and multiple companies related to secessionist activities will be punished in accordance with the law.

Zhang Hua, an associate research fellow at the Institute of Taiwan Studies, the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences, told the Global Times on Wednesday that the law on punishing Taiwan secessionists is complete and in place in the mainland.

Taiwan secessionists can be judged according to Criminal Law for splitting the country, destroying the reunification of the motherland and endangering national security, the expert said. 

Zhang Wensheng, deputy dean of the Taiwan Research Institute at Xiamen University, told the Global Times on Wednesday that after the reunification, the Chinese mainland can collect evidence against Taiwan secessionists in accordance with criminal law, set up special courts to try them in absentia, and nail all those at large wherever they are. 

In addition, the scope of sanctions can be extended to the family members of Taiwan secessionists, which means they'll be banned from business exchanges with the mainland and the institutions they work for should also be included in the sanctions list, Zhang said. 

Mainland experts said that it cannot be ruled out that more regulations against Taiwan secessionists will be adopted in the future. Considering that the Anti-Secession Law is more of a framework and principle law, the central government could formulate a specific law targeting Taiwan secessionists, similar to the national security law for the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region.[/quote]

https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202208/1272108.shtml

 

[DB]

If the Americans send someone important to Taiwan once a week, will China be able to afford to continue throwing the expensive toys out of the pram?

[BansheeOne]

Quote

Date 12.08.2022

US to conduct 'freedom of navigation' transit in Taiwan Strait

The US will launch air and maritime transit operations in the next few weeks. The move comes in response to China's "more provocative and destabilizing behavior."

A senior US official said Friday the US was set to conduct "freedom of navigation" operations in the Taiwan Strait during the coming weeks.

Kurt Campbell, the US Indo-Pacific coordinator in the administration of President Joe Biden, said the operations will consist of "air and maritime transit through the Taiwan Strait over the next few weeks."

Campbell said that the efforts would be done in partnership with other G7 countries. Despite the recent ratcheting up of tensions between Taiwan, China and the US, US forces "will continue to fly, sail and operate where international law allows, consistent with our long-standing commitment to freedom of navigation."

"We will ensure that our presence, posture and exercise account for China's more provocative and destabilizing behavior, with a view towards guiding the situation in the western Pacific towards greater stability," Campbell added.

Tensions still high over Pelosi visit

The US Indo-Pacific coordinator also said China had overreacted to the recent visit of US House Speaker Nancy Pelosi. He said China was hoping to exploit the visit to alter the status of Taiwan.

After seven days of large-scale military exercises near Taiwan, China's People's Liberation Army (PLA) announced Wednesday that the drills had concluded. However, Beijing pledged to continue "regular combat readiness patrols" in the area, raising the possibility of frequent Chinese military operations near the self-governed democratic island.

The drills over the last week were conducted in response to Pelosi's visit just over a week ago.

https://www.dw.com/en/us-to-conduct-freedom-of-navigation-transit-in-taiwan-strait/a-62794897

[futon]

Exercise Pitch Black, multi-nation air forces from about 20 countries, in Australia, 100 aircraft, from August to September. What's everyone bringing, don't know. There are three first timers to the exercise; Germany (six Eurofighters, three A330s, four A400Ms), Japan (six F-2s), South Korea (six KF-16s and a KC330). 

https://www.airforce.gov.au/news-and-events/events/exercises/exercise-pitch-black-2022

https://asia.nikkei.com/Politics/International-relations/Indo-Pacific/German-fighter-jets-head-to-Australia-in-shift-for-Indo-Pacific

https://www.mod.go.jp/asdf/news/houdou/R4/20220728.pdf

https://m-en.yna.co.kr/view/AEN20220526009700325

[BansheeOne]

Quote

US, Taiwan to start formal trade talks in autumn

3h ago

The US has announced its plan to launch trade talks with Taiwan in a new sign of support and despite soaring tensions with China over the self-ruled island.

The United States and Taiwan have agreed to begin trade talks, set to start in early autumn, as part of a new initiative to boost relations even as tensions rise with China over the self-governed island.

The negotiations would encompass a range of areas, including agriculture, digital trade, good regulatory practices and removing trade barriers, the Office of the US Trade Representative said in a statement.

Taiwan's Office of Trade Negotiations on Thursday confirmed the planned start of formal talks saying it hopes negotiations attract more US and other foreign investment and clears the road for Taiwan to be a part of international trade blocs like the Japan-led Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership (CPTPP).

Taipei aims for eventual free-trade deal

The possibility of talks, known as the US-Taiwan Initiative on 21st-Century Trade, was unveiled in June.

"We plan to pursue an ambitious schedule for achieving high-standard commitments and meaningful outcomes covering the eleven trade areas in the negotiating mandate that will help build a fairer, more prosperous and resilient 21st-century economy," Deputy United States Trade Representative Sarah Bianchi said. 

In Taipei, the island's top trade negotiator, John Deng, said he hoped talks could start next month and that this could one day lead to a free-trade deal the island has long sought with the US.

[...]

What is China's view of the proposed talks?

China expressed its opposition to the new Taiwan-US trade initiative.

"China will take resolute measures to uphold its national sovereignty and territorial integrity," Foreign Ministry spokesperson Wang Wenbin said. "We advise the United States stop making misjudgments."

[...]

https://m.dw.com/en/us-taiwan-to-start-formal-trade-talks-in-autumn/a-62845322

[BansheeOne]

Quote

Date 28.08.2022

Taiwan: Two US Navy warships transit through strait amid tensions

The US Navy has sailed two warships through the Taiwan Strait, in the first such transit since House Speaker Nancy Pelosi visited Taiwan.

Two United States Navy warships are sailing through the Taiwan Strait, in the first such transit since China carried out the largest-ever military drills around Taiwan, following US House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's visit to the self-ruled island earlier this month.

The Ticonderoga-class guided-missile cruisers — the USS Antietam and the USS Chancellorsville — conducted the "routine" transit on Sunday "through waters where high seas freedoms of navigation and overflight apply in accordance with international law,"  the US 7th Fleet said in a statement on Sunday. 

Such exercises have been known to take eight to 12 hours to complete and are closely watched by China's military.

"These (U.S.) ships transited through a corridor in the strait that is beyond the territorial sea of any coastal state," the US Navy said.

[...]

https://www.dw.com/en/taiwan-two-us-navy-warships-transit-through-strait-amid-tensions/a-62953722

[futon]

There has been many changes since the start of this thread. A thread that wasn't the initiation of the idea for the thread as its predessor thread goes back another 2 years or so. So basically 8 years since starting it. The changes are related to many things. The actual circumstances with geopolitical and interwined economics. One's own thinking about that such as myself and how it evolves or matures. But also to the site itself. The degree of its worthiness for be informed and hosting contributed content. The perception of member's interest, active interests, displayed interests, and how it corresponds with the actual size of the matter itself. 

The West, particularly the US, talks about "containing China" and "value of democracy" but it still flies against the face of the tremendous degree of exchanges with China as it is. Lots of examples can be stated. Examples of various kinds. From the lock up and passing of people like Liu Xiaobo with no impact other than a few airwaves to the construction of massive airbases in the South China Sea with nothing more concrete then things like flimsy UN tribunal via Philippines call and beginning of FONOPs, which technically speaking, the US does to other countries as well once in a while, just MSM sets the tone. There are things which have not been altered to adjust the lead up to where things are now that obviously was to come to pass. So really, this isn't "containing China". It's more of a neo-China Open Door policy. China's economy is for a ratio benefit for the US, or at least, it supposed to play out like that to Wall Street/deep state (but how many free spaces for rioting/etc can they afford?).  Well, efficent aspects exists within the whole of US economy that helps balance the inefficiencies, like falcon 9 rockets. The defense of Taiwan for the US is really for being the pin that keeps the latch shut on a China acquiring strategic gains that can put it on a greater trajectory of getting ahead of the US and its bubble zone of influence and that's bad to Wall Street/Deep state because then leverage for benefit-to-US-ratio is lost. The money people want that leverage. Ally/partner countries are just part of this maintenance of the Neo-Chna Open Door policy. Had a stronger response (not as in sanctions but as in reduction of importing China-made stuff) been taking, then the PRC itself probably shut the door and its the US that wants it open. So a solution policy hasn't been used at so many instances that one would think would trigger a response by a country that emphasisze democracy/freedom/"western values" at so many points in the last 20 years such as the previously stated SCS tribunal, Liu Xiaobo, HK 2014, HK 2018, Scarborough Shoal, on and on this list goes.

Because of that, it no longer so motivating to add content about so-called containment. Just like arguments like, so-and-so people are good but just misled by the government, it is so with the US as well. Intereactions post war up until the late 1980s was reasonable and good enough for motivation purpoases. The point of change was the Tiannamen Square Massecre. An obvious indicator to any advocate for democracy to keep an arms length with the PRC.  But instead, come the 1990s, Imperial Japan continues to be slandered and hit like a punching bag for propaganda glory narrative gains as the US gets a regime in peacetime that scores lower democracy/freedom index than Imperial Japan even during war years, onto the WTO and expands and deepens economy dependency. It is a hypocrasy and great betrayel to declared values. And after so many times of butting heads about the glory narrative, recognition of necessary correction points so as to move on is too slow to occur so that it just washes away in the existing sludge of established glory narrative generation. 

Then there's the fact that China is now the greatest possible peer competitor to the US militarily yet there's lots more interest/activity in gay people than that. Part of that greater interest is the never ending disposition shaping political contest. This is supposed to be a military forum right? It's been hijacked by the political activists.

Well, one other reason which is much more plain is that there is a lot of these kinds of joint exercises going on and information on them has becoming easier to come across. So in that sense, there's less of rarity on the matter now anyway.

So for all those reasons, motivation to contribute to this thread has passed. It goes to say that a great deal was learned along the way so I do have appreciation for the experience and that appreciation extends to many even as my own motivation for this thread comes to a disappointing end.

Edited August 30, 2022 by futon

[DB]

Saw an article yesterday that suggests China may not be able to keep the lid on the property value implosion that's been due for a number of years.

Not sure whether this is more of the sky falling in theme that is associated with the global energy price crisis, wishful thinking from people who want to see China fail, or even (extreme left field) the Chinese deliberately allowing it when everyone else is weak to minimise their relative loss of position in the world.

Additionally, China is in the middle of a massive drought that is likely to have a major impact on crop yields this year. This puts even more pressure on the food prices, although I understand that they've been stockpiling grain for some time.

Anyone have any thoughts?

[RETAC21]

6 minutes ago, DB said:

Saw an article yesterday that suggests China may not be able to keep the lid on the property value implosion that's been due for a number of years.

Not sure whether this is more of the sky falling in theme that is associated with the global energy price crisis, wishful thinking from people who want to see China fail, or even (extreme left field) the Chinese deliberately allowing it when everyone else is weak to minimise their relative loss of position in the world.

Additionally, China is in the middle of a massive drought that is likely to have a major impact on crop yields this year. This puts even more pressure on the food prices, although I understand that they've been stockpiling grain for some time.

Anyone have any thoughts?

China seems to be having a bit of a perfect storm at the moment, nature and politics are combining to undercut its well-being and the Party is trying to keep the lid on, hamfistedly, at the same time it tries to "reform" society to become more austere and to have it toe its whishes. An external enemy is a bonus in this circumstances.

Biased but overall pointing to things going south:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwjvvgGX6oby5mZ3gbDe8Ug

 

[DB]

On reflection, this might be better placed in China's Peaceful Rise.

[BansheeOne]

Quote

Date 02.09.2022

US greenlights $1.1 billion arms deal with Taiwan

A potential deal to supply weapons to Taiwan has been approved by the US State Department. It includes the sale of anti-ship and air-to-air missiles as well as a radar surveillance system.

The United States on Friday announced a potential $1.1 billion (€1.1 billion) arms sale to Taiwan, amid heightened tensions between Washington and Beijing.

The State Department said the arms package aims to boost Taiwan's defense capabilities and includes $355 million for Harpoon air-to-sea missiles and $85 million for Sidewinder air-to-air missiles. 

An amount of $655 million would go towards a surveillance radar system to help Taiwan track incoming missiles.

Arms package 'essential for Taiwan's security' — US official

A spokesperson for the State Department called the package "essential for Taiwan's security."

"These proposed sales are routine cases to support Taiwan's continuing efforts to modernize its armed forces and to maintain a credible defensive capability," the spokesperson said.

The package is the largest to be approved for Taiwan under the Biden administration and would still need the approval of Congress.

[...]

https://www.dw.com/en/us-greenlights-11-billion-arms-deal-with-taiwan/a-63007976

[JWB]

Marines: Troubles Taking Taiwan

Marines: Troubles Taking Taiwan (strategypage.com)

[JWB]