German Puma Upgrades

[Dawes]

Regarding this new "Turret Independent Secondary Weapons System", is this supposed to be some sort of improved grenade launcher system?:

 

https://www.rheinmetall.com/en/rheinmetall_ag/press/news/latest_news/index_12160.php

[methos]

See here: http://www.tank-net.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=31817&p=1314767

Edited July 30, 2017 by methos

[Panzermann]

To prepare the Schützenpanzer Puma for the VJTF participation scheduled for 2023 a whopping 40 Pumas are to be equipped with new comms tech (encrypted radios, faster and more data transport) for about 500 million €URos. A third R&D, a third for hard and software (to be determined which) and a third for support, replacement parts etc. This has not yet been budgeted and when is in the air, because of the current unwillingness to do anything in Berlin. Bundeswehr says that by 2020 the tech should be delivered, otherwise no fancy networked warfare in 2023, because the equipment comes too late to train the crews properly.

 

 

https://www.n-tv.de/politik/Puma-Aufruestung-kostet-500-Millionen-article20251868.html

(in german)

 

 

 

 

That is an ambtious schedule. To decide on a system and develop and install hard and software within two years. And no financing yet.

Edited January 28, 2018 by Panzermann

[lastdingo]

They're introducing small quantities of modern radios before deciding on a supplier for the new generation of (digital) radios.

 

Bundeswehr hardware procurement is in utter disrepair on all levels - right up to the MoD and the parliamentary committee.

The only ones I do not blame up there are the finance politicians; the finance committee and minister of finance. There would be enough money if the Bundeswehr knew how to use it best.

Two fully equipped, very well-trained and rapidly deployable (48 hrs to combat readiness NE of Warsaw) mechanised brigades would be worth more for collective defence than the entire Heer is today.

[Panzermann]

They're introducing small quantities of modern radios before deciding on a supplier for the new generation of (digital) radios.

40 Pumas to be equipped is actually not that small a number. It is to implement networked warfare from dismounted grenadiers up into the cockpit of a jet overhead for handing over targets. So that makes at least 40 radios for the Pumas, plus the staff vehicles of company and battalion commanders. Then the radios for the dismounts of which i am not sure are already able for data transmission (and if they are, are they compatible with the new radios?)

 

And then this interim system is then going to be supplanted by a different incompatible system I bet...

 

Meanwhile the troops make do and carry half a dozen different radios to be able to talk to everybody: the various old SEM models and a few ad hoc procured US made PRC-117. In the age of software defined radios.

 

Bundeswehr hardware procurement is in utter disrepair on all levels - right up to the MoD and the parliamentary committee.

The only ones I do not blame up there are the finance politicians; the finance committee and minister of finance. There would be enough money if the Bundeswehr knew how to use it best.

Two fully equipped, very well-trained and rapidly deployable (48 hrs to combat readiness NE of Warsaw) mechanised brigades would be worth more for collective defence than the entire Heer is today.

Agree that the Bundeswehr is no credible threat to anybody at the moment. Currently it is overstretched, underequipped and not really able to fulfill its missions. Well von der Leyen promised full equipment of all units according to STANAG.

 

 

The pursers are not to blame for the radios, as BmVg has not asked yet for a budget. But with the political circus prefering to gaze their navels and sitting on their hands at the moment the budget will be delayed and there is no time to waste. but nobody dares to act at the moment. said with everything on hold in Berlin nobody dares to make a decision, although there is no way around paying for the comms system if there is to be Pumas deployed in '23. No matter what government we are going to have the next three and a half years, Germany has taken the responsibility to lead VJTF.

 

 

 

edit: there is still no MELLS integrated. Or any other ATGM system.

Edited January 28, 2018 by Panzermann

[Panzermann]

hartpunkt.de has a better listing what is to be in the 500 million package.

 

a third is for general maintenance, replacement parts and support in the baltics, a third is R&D and the last third is for buying the new TSWA (turret independent grenade launcher), the coax machine gun in 7,62 and bringing the Pumas up to the newest block (e.g. replacing the CRT monitors, improved optics systems) and finally mounting MELLS.

 

 

 

 

https://www.hartpunkt.de/modernisierung-von-40-pumas-kostet-500-mio-eur/#more-3287

 

 

Other items are the lack of 155 mm for arty training, a new armoured medic vehicle and a new AEV.

 

 

I bet this is all going to be pushed into next year and this year is wasted budgetwise.

[Dawes]

Any hope of foreign sales for Puma?

[Panzermann]

Any hope of foreign sales for Puma?

Curretly in the competition for replacing the czech BVP-2 fleet afaik.

[2805662]

Glad theyre shifting to a 7.62mm coax. Remember being briefed by a H&K guy in 2010 that 5.56mm in a coax had superior lethality than a 7.62mm. *sceptical nod*

[Deltic]

Glad theyre shifting to a 7.62mm coax. Remember being briefed by a H&K guy in 2010 that 5.56mm in a coax had superior lethality than a 7.62mm. *sceptical nod*

 

Maybe he meant more stowed kills?

[methos]

If I remember correctly, the main arguments that were cited for the MG4 were the lower weight, the commonality with the infantry squad's armament and the "no range disadvantage" (Heckler & Koch claimed that the MG4 would be effective up to a range of 600 metres, while at greater ranges the 30 mm MK 30-2/ABM would allways be used, due to its higher lethality and much better accuracy compared to all types of machine guns). Penetration of the MG4 firing DM31 ammunition is claimed to be 13.5 mm steel at 100 metres.

 

 

In the Czech trials, the Puma supposedly did extremely well, hitting 37 out of 40 shots (five rounds were fired per target, so the Puma didn't miss a single target), while all other IFVs (ASCOD, CV90 and Lynx) missed at least one target. The second best IFV supposedly hit only about half of all shots (so roughly twenty). The Czech military officially declared the Puma their prefered option, since a few weeks the German companies are negotiating with the Czech industry regarding the licence production of the Puma.

 

It is also offered to Australia, although the IFV program (LAND 400 Phase 3, replacement for the M113AS4) has not officially started and informations regarding it are changing every few weeks. Originally it was reported that the Puma will be offered to Australia despite the fact that it failed on of the key requirements (not enough dismount capacity). Subsequently the requirements were altered (only six dismounts required), which a lot of people assume was made to allow the Puma taking part (IIRC this happened after the Czech trials, where the Puma emerged as winner). Latest info however says that the Australian military might be looking for a cheaper solution and has asked the companies behind the two shortlisted offers for the LAND 400 Phase 2 (ASLAV replacement, either going to be AMV or Boxer) to also provide offeers based on the same vehicles for LAND 400 Phase 3.

Edited January 30, 2018 by methos

[Colin]

The purpose of defense is to keep the defense companies running and create jobs which creates votes....

[2805662]

The purpose of defense is to keep the defense companies running and create jobs which creates votes....

Its all an elaborate work of the dole scheme.

[Panzermann]

 

 

Land Platforms
PSM details Puma AIFV upgrades
Christopher F Foss, London - Jane's International Defence Review
16 July 2018


The German Army’s Puma armoured infantry fighting vehicle (AIFV) will be upgraded in two key steps that Projekt System & Management GmbH (PSM) calls Puma S1 and Puma S2.

PSM is a joint venture of Rheinmetall and Krauss-Maffei Wegmann.

Puma S1 covers command-and-control, situational awareness, and enhanced anti-tank capability; S2 adds a killer-killer capability.

For S1, the Puma’s open electronic architecture will allow a PRC117 satellite embedded radio system to be installed, as well as the latest software designed radios that, according to PSM, will “enable more effective communication during joint task force operations”.

Situational awareness is to be improved by replacing current black-and-white cameras with thermal and colour cameras to provide an all-weather capability with information displayed at the commander’s, gunner’s, and driver’s stations, as well as on screens for the dismounts.

An additional improvement for the 360° situational awareness system is to incorporate fuzed-image technology so that “every member of the crew is actively involved in reconnaissance tasks when mounted”, the company said.

The driver also has a new day/night front and rear thermal camera system.

The S1 firepower upgrade is designed to enable Puma to engage main battle tanks (MBTs) and other targets at long range. Accordingly, a twin launcher for the EuroSpike Long Range anti-tank guided weapon (ATGW) LR1 will be integrated externally on the turret’s left side. This was fully qualified over a two-year period under a EUR68 million (USD79.4 million) contract, with the system installed on two of the original series production Puma AIFVs.

Targets can be engaged with EuroSpike LR1 by the commander or gunner using their standard control handles and the already installed monitor systems.

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(297 of 712 words)

http://www.janes.com/article/81771/psm-details-puma-aifv-upgrades

 

 

Eurosatory 2018

Puma enters Marder domain [ES18D5]

15 June 2018



PSM (Projekt System & Management) (Stand D230, External Pe6B) is prime contractor for the German Army’s Puma armoured infantry fighting vehicle (AIFV), which has now started to replace the Marder 1A3/A4/A5 IFV in some units.

PSM is a joint venture between Rheinmetall Defence and Krauss- Maffei Wegmann, with each company having a Puma AIFV production line.

The German Army has placed contracts for 350 Pumas, including eight driver training vehicles; so far, 200 have been delivered, with production running at 66 vehicles a year.

Final deliveries are due in 2020.

The Puma AIFV is fitted with a remote-controlled turret armed with a Mauser 30mm MK 30-2 air bursting munition cannon and a 5.56mm MG4 coaxial machine gun. A number of capability enhancements are to take place.

Puma S1 includes improvements in the key areas of command and control and situational awareness, with a two-round launcher on the left side of the turret for the Spike LR antitank guided weapon also to be included under the S1 upgrade.

The current 5.56mm machine gun will be replaced by a 7.62mm gun under the S2 upgrade and Puma will also be fitted with the rear grenade launcher, which will be capable of firing lethal or nonlethal munitions over the rear arc.

Puma is being offered on the export market and was one of the vehicles recently tested in the Czech Republic, but the final downselect has yet to be announced.

(237 words)

http://www.janes.com/article/81078/puma-enters-marder-domain-es18d5

[Dark_Falcon]

The purpose of defense is to keep the defense companies running and create jobs which creates votes....

 

It really depends on the country and the system. Canada and the US take their LAV/Stryker programs seriously and expect to use them on actual missions and so even if the resulting vehicles are sometimes expensive the vehicles are still built and supplied with enough spare parts and maintenance to stay functional. There's no magic to it, just the determination that "We need these things to do what we need to do." and the willingness to pay the needed costs.

 

But Germany isn't willing to make such decisions, for reasons I don't understand. So for the time being instead of Boxers or Pumas in the Baltic States we'll keep having LAV/Strykers and Bradleys deployed there instead. And we'll have Americans and maybe even Canadians annoyed that they keep having to do the job Germany claims is important but refuses to do itself.

[Colin]

Pretty sad when you have to look up at Canada's procurement system, at that point you have hit bottom and started digging.....

[BansheeOne]

So for the time being instead of Boxers or Pumas in the Baltic States we'll keep having LAV/Strykers and Bradleys deployed there instead.

 

Uh, what? Boxers are deployed to Lithuania right now, and have been for two years (not counting the ones procured by Lithuania itself). Pumas will probably take another couple years to filter in for Marder; Panzergrenadierbataillon 371 which is currently providing the German mechanized infantry element in eFP Battlegroup Lithuania is still on the latter.

[Panzermann]

 

So for the time being instead of Boxers or Pumas in the Baltic States we'll keep having LAV/Strykers and Bradleys deployed there instead.

 

Uh, what? Boxers are deployed to Lithuania right now, and have been for two years (not counting the ones procured by Lithuania itself). Pumas will probably take another couple years to filter in for Marder; Panzergrenadierbataillon 371 which is currently providing the German mechanized infantry element in eFP Battlegroup Lithuania is still on the latter.

 

 

 

IIRC next rotation is to come from L9 and L92 has Puma IFV as well as Marder, so could well be close.

[Dark_Falcon]

 

 

So for the time being instead of Boxers or Pumas in the Baltic States we'll keep having LAV/Strykers and Bradleys deployed there instead.

 

Uh, what? Boxers are deployed to Lithuania right now, and have been for two years (not counting the ones procured by Lithuania itself). Pumas will probably take another couple years to filter in for Marder; Panzergrenadierbataillon 371 which is currently providing the German mechanized infantry element in eFP Battlegroup Lithuania is still on the latter.

 

 

 

IIRC next rotation is to come from L9 and L92 has Puma IFV as well as Marder, so could well be close.

 

 

And are the forces being sent up to TO&E? I'm not trying to be insulting, I'm just asking.

[BansheeOne]

The units that get deployed are usually up to spec - at the expense of army-wide borrowing, scrounging and UOR procurement of equipment. In the previous Bundeswehr reform, this was actually designed into the structure; there were only about 70 percent combat systems to eqip all units, on the theory that they wouldn't deploy all at once anyway and those who did would be passed the required material. Which tends to lead to neglect of stuff you don't own yourself, and of course the Bundeswehr had been penny-pinching on spare parts in particular for decades, resulting in embarrassments like the recent stories of only eight fully combat-ready Eurofighters with just about 20 AMRAAMs between them, not one single of the six Type 212A submarines fit to sail, etc.

 

Though it's not just the expensive stuff that makes such headlines, and not necessarily for financial reasons; for the German contribution to VJTF 2019, a Bundeswehr-wide call went out for soldiers to donate their issue balaclavas to needy comrades. IIRC just when everybody had worked himself into a good fit of rage over that, pointed out that used facewear cannot actually be re-issued per regulations, and they had decided to procure an extra 6,400 items at a price of € 6.44 ea, they found that there were actually sufficient left in storage, which had just not been known to the authority in charge ...

 

The underequipped-by-design system was abolished two years ago now, the defense budget is being raised rather quickly and extra vehicles and other equipment are being procured, but there could be more in the budgets for 2020 ff., and as usual the procurement system works at glacial speed (not necessarily just on the government side - the re-buy and upgrade of 104 Leopard 2s was being held up by KMW and Rheinmetall quarreling over whom of them gets which share of the work). Most of all, 25 years of underfinancing are not going to be undone in one or two government terms; two years ago Defense Minister Ursula von der Leyen identified a total additional need of 130 billion Euro until 2030 to remedy the neglect, which at current plans we're fare from reaching.

[Dark_Falcon]

Thank you for the informative answer, Banshee.

[Panzermann]

The Puma IFV improvements are coming along:

Rheinmetall modernizes Puma IFV for NATO VJTF 2023
July 2019 Global Defense Security army news industry
POSTED ON MONDAY, 22 JULY 2019 10:14
“System Panzergrenadier”: Rheinmetall modernizing Puma infantry fighting vehicle and other equipment for NATO spearhead VJTF 2023. Order volume close to half a billion euros.


Rheinmetall is taking on a key role in equipping the NATO spearhead Very High Joint Readiness Task Force 2023 (VJTF 2023), which will be furnished by the German Bundeswehr. Contracts have now been awarded to a consortium for the “System Panzergrenadier VJTF 2023” project, in which Rheinmetall’s share comes to over €470 million, including value added tax. Work has already begun and is set to continue through to the end of the VJTF readiness phase in 2024.

On 11 July 2019, the Federal Office for Bundeswehr Equipment, Information Technology and In-service Support awarded a corresponding contract to ARGE Puma, a consortium consisting of Puma manufacturer PSM Projekt System Management GmbH – a joint venture in which Rheinmetall holds a 50% stake – and Rheinmetall Electronics GmbH. Subcontracting within ARGE will take place shortly.

“System Panzergrenadier” links the Puma infantry fighting vehicle – the mainstay of the German Army’s mechanized infantry – with the modular Future Soldier – Expanded System (IdZ-ES) soldier system, in an advanced, network-enabled warfare environment.

Included in the “System Panzergrenadier VJTF 2023” package is a comprehensive combat performance upgrade of forty-one Puma infantry fighting vehicles, coupled with additional measures for improving communication between the infantry fighting vehicles and dismounted infantrymen. For Rheinmetall, the total value of this order comes to €258.3 million, including value added tax. The systems will be delivered at the end of 2020/beginning of 2021.

Among other things, the package also encompasses complete logistic support of the VJTF Pumas for a period of five years, i.e. spare parts, special tools and spare parts logistics. Also included is a new generation of digital radios for the infantry fighting vehicles as well as integration of the MELLS multirole light guided missile system, significantly expanding the capabilities spectrum of Puma. New daylight and thermal imaging cameras and a colour display feature in the upgrade too. Optimized day and night vision will increase the range of reconnaissance, while simultaneously widening the crew’s field of view. Furthermore, new training resources will enable the unit to train in a highly realistic manner.

Closely linked to the hardware of the new optronic systems and monitors for the infantry fighting vehicles is the contract for development of the “Vision Enhancement, Chassis”, which is already underway. Including value added tax, it represents sales of €67.2 million, including value added tax.

Furthermore, Rheinmetall is equipping the mechanized infantry companies of the VJTF 2023 with “TacNet”, its battle management system (BMS). In addition, an initial lot of ten platoon versions of the “Future Soldier – Expanded System” soldier system will be brought up to modern VJTF 2023 standard. Improved communication between the Puma crew and the dismounted infantry section will result in a continuously updated, uniform common operational picture. This way, Rheinmetall gives mechanized infantry a command-and-control capability that extends from the company commander to the individual rifleman on the ground. These modernization moves will mean incoming orders for Rheinmetall worth €146.5 million, including value added tax.

“System Panzergrenadier VJTF 2023” substantially enhances the fighting strength of the VJTF 2023. At the same time, Rheinmetall views these measures as a template for further modernization and digitization of the Bundeswehr.

Modernizing the command and control capabilities of complete mechanized infantry companies and bringing the IdZ-ES up to VJTF 2023 standard involves modifying the hardware and software. Dispensing with the “electronic backbone” is one key innovation. Others include advanced new radio systems for dismounted troops and infantry fighting vehicles, which result in improved command capabilities as well as enabling secure transmission of large amounts of data.

During development of the new vision systems and their integration into the Puma, an initial lot of five sets of prototype assemblies will be fabricated and integrated into five standard vehicles. These tasks are to be complete by 2021. Verification will then take place at the Bundeswehr’s technical centres by 2023.

Furthermore, digitization of the vision technology will proceed in tandem with implementation of NATO Generic Vehicle Architecture (NGVA) in the Puma. It forms the foundation for the future sensor-to-shooter nexus. Already underway, the networking of sensors and effectors in individual vehicles will soon enable the networking of sensors and effectors in entire units and formations. As a result, the Puma will be one of the world’s first digitized combat vehicles.
​

https://www.armyrecognition.com/july_2019_global_defense_security_army_news_industry/rheinmetall_modernizes_puma_ifv_for_nato_vjtf_2023.html

---

the dismounts get new radios too as current issue ES&T https://esut.de/2019/07/meldungen/ruestung2/14052/neue-vhf-uhf-funkgeraete-fuer-die-vjtf-l-2023/reports::

• ELBIT PNR-1000 for every Panzergrenadier dismounthttps://elbitsystems.com/pr-new/elbit-systems-subsidiary-in-germany-was-selected-to-supply-soldier-radio-systems-to-the-german-army/
• the group and platoon leaders get a Rohde & Schwarz SDHR https://scdn.rohde-schwarz.com/ur/pws/dl_downloads/dl_common_library/dl_brochures_and_datasheets/pdf_1/SOVERON-HR_fly_en_5215-8170-32_v0201.pdf
• vehicles get two SDTR each https://scdn.rohde-schwarz.com/ur/pws/dl_downloads/dl_common_library/dl_brochures_and_datasheets/pdf_1/SDTR_VR5000_bro_en_5214-3598-12_v0201.pdf

 

the software defined radios are developed in partnership between czech MESIT and german Rohde & Schwarz hence this looks pretty much the same: https://www.mesitdefence.cz/en/dicom-rf40

Edited July 22, 2019 by Panzermann

[Panzermann]

press release from Rohde & Schwarz:

Munich 22-Jul-2019

German army relies on Rohde & Schwarz

IDZ-ES and the PUMA infantry fighting vehicle (IFV) for the VJTF 2023 are making a start on the end-to-end digital command radio link over the first mile using software defined radios from Rohde & Schwarz.

​

he seamless command radio link for the PUMA armored infantry system with the infantryman of the future (IdZ-ES) for the Very High Readiness Joint Taskforce (VJTF) 2023 is provided by Rohde & Schwarz. With the Budget Committee of the German Lower House of German Parliament (Bundestag) having given its approval for the armored infantry system service package at the end of June, the necessary contracts for procurement have now also been completed.

"This order is a milestone that we have reached after winning against international competitors in challenging trials and comparative tests set by the German Armed Forces (Bundeswehr) in 2018 in Munster, Germany," explained Hartmut Jäschke, Senior Vice President Market Segments Secure Communications Sales and Projects at Rohde & Schwarz.

Its basis is the intention of the Bundeswehr to be ready with the PUMA IFV/armored infantry system and the latest version of IdZ-ES for NATO VJTF (Land) in 2023. Rohde & Schwarz is a subcontractor of Rheinmetall Electronics, which is responsible for the IdZ-ES system, and will supply the latest tactical software defined radios (SDR) together with suitable waveforms, integration, training and services. The SOVERON family works with the high data rate and interference-immune SOVERON WAVE waveforms for tactical rugged use on the first mile, and is thus an exact match for the spectrum of requirements of a battle group for territorial and collective defense as well as for international crisis management operations. All members of the SOVERON WAVE family of waveforms offer mobile ad hoc network (MANET) functionality. Radios equipped with this capability function as routers within the IP network group, forwarding the information via other communication nodes and thus ensuring that a robust, interference-immune link can be maintained under all circumstances.

The Rohde & Schwarz VHF/UHF radio systems selected for this project will establish and maintain the command radio link with simultaneous voice and IP data from dismounted troops up to the platoon and company level. The systems concerned are handheld (SDHR/SOVERON HR) and vehicular radios (SDTR/SOVERON VR) that are interoperable with the German Armed Forces joint radio system (SVFuA, series name: SOVERON D) that has already been commissioned by the Bundeswehr and the SDR waveforms procured with it. The first batch of SOVERON D commissioned for command vehicles will be delivered to the troops in the first half of 2020. This interplay is also of great importance for future viability in the context of the Digitalization of Land Based Operations/Tactical Edge Networking (D-LBO/TEN) major project for highly secure and trusted interoperable connections that will only come into effect after VJTF 2023. SOVERON D also provides backward compatibility with the analog SEM radio infrastructure that will be in service for some time yet even though it is obsolete. This capability was also recently demonstrated in further tests.

"With our innovative overall approach – SOVERON – we provide national trusted solutions that can be tailored to the customer's needs but which, due to their open architecture, are compatible with established radio systems and architectures and, at the same time, will be viable in the future," Mr. Jäschke continued. "It is an honor for us to bring into operation by the troops the latest state of the art for the VJTF. By doing so, we are not only paving the way for the next steps of D-LBO/TEN and for further strategic projects of the Bundeswehr. There are also significant synergies with the Telecommunications of the Army (TK A) project in Switzerland, comparable to the networking part of D-LBO/TEN. We are in the final round of a multi-year competition here."

​

 

https://www.rohde-schwarz.com/us/about/news-press/details/press-room/press-releases-detailpages/german-army-relies-on-rohde-schwarz-press-release-detailpage_229356-663180.html

 

 

 

Welcome the "Cybergrenadiere"

Edited July 25, 2019 by Panzermann