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Because, Nordic Countries


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40 minutes ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

Nah, Agincourt innit.

Was it traditional, or a modern composite?

Arrows atleast were modern ones with black shafts.

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1 hour ago, TonyE said:

black shafts

Evil black arrows! TACTICAL black arrows! Black arrows need to be banned! Think of the children!

My condolences for your fellow nationals, Tony, nevertheless.

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11 hours ago, bojan said:

:)

kd9LcOn.jpeg

I don't recall if I read that one, but I know I read a couple of his books when I was a lad. Great drawings.

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Yep.

He and Robert Louis Stevenson were a reason why me and friends were making bows like crazy as kids. :)

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Norway: Bow-and-arrow attacker handed over to health services

1h ago

The man who confessed to killing five people in the Norwegian town of Kongsberg is suspected to have had mental health issues. A full psychiatric evaluation has begun but will likely take months to complete.

A man who confessed to killing five people in a deadly bow-and-arrow attack in Norway was handed over to the care of health services, a prosecutor said Friday.

The 37-year-old Danish citizen went on a rampage through Kongsberg, a quiet town in southeastern Norway where he lived, on Wednesday night.

He attacked people in a store, as well as on the streets and in their homes. 

But doubts have arisen whether he can legally be held responsible for the attack.

"He was handed over to health services on Thursday evening after an evaluation of his health condition," prosecutor Ann Iren Svane Mathiassen told news agency AFP.

Two experts will observe and assess whether the man was sane at the time of the attack, Norwegian news media reported. 

A court in Kongsberg was to decide on Friday how long the man can be held, police said.

"We would like to have him in custody for at least four weeks," the prosecutor said, two of which will be in isolation.

If the judge grants the request, the man will remain under medical care instead of being jailed.

He will not be present in court at the time of the custody hearing, as he has already confessed to the killing and did not oppose a request to keep him in detention.

What do we know about the attack?

Wednesday's attack left four women and a man dead, all between the age of 50 and 70. Additionally, three people were injured.

The man was a convert to Islam and is believed to have been radicalized, police said.

Police have said the incident was probably an act of terror, given the nature of weapons used and that the perpetrator attacked his victims randomly.

"There is no doubt that the actual act appears as if it could be an act of terror," Hans Sverre Sjovold, the head of Norway's intelligence service PST, told a news conference on Thursday.

"But it's important that the investigation continues and that we establish the motive of the suspect," he said.

The man is believed to have acted alone and police said he had not contested the detention request.

[...]

https://m.dw.com/en/norway-bow-and-arrow-attacker-handed-over-to-health-services/a-59514052

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By now the excitement doesn't seem to be about the perpetrator's faith, which may have been a figment of his imagination, but that he killed all his victims after first being encountered by police who initially withdrew because according to different reports, they were lacking guns or protective equipment.

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Date 16.10.2021

Kongsberg attack: Norwegian police cast doubt on Islamist motive

Norwegian investigators now say they believe mental illness was the main factor in the deadly bow-and-arrow attack. The Danish man suspected of the crime is currently in a secure medical facility.

Norwegian police investigating Wednesday's deadly attack in the southeastern town of Kongsberg said on Saturday that they were moving away from initial suspicions that Islamist motives were behind the bow-and-arrow shootings.

Speaking at a press conference, police inspector Per Thomas Omholt said there was reason to believe that the suspect, who is in custody, was not a convinced convert to Islam as was initially thought.

"The thinking is that he did not take (the conversion) very seriously. By this we mean that he did not follow or practice the traditions that are common in this culture and religion," the inspector said.  

Omholt said the killing spree, in which five people died and three were injured, was more likely to have been a result of mental illness.

He added that investigators believed the suspect had acted alone.

Known to authorities

The suspect, a 37-year-old Dane, had allegedly posted a video on social media in 2017 in which he claimed to be a Muslim and a messenger, and to have a "mission."

Norway's domestic intelligence agency had not seen the video as a criminal threat as the statements were not specific, Martin Bernsen of the Police Security Service (PST) told the Norwegian News Agency (NTB) on Friday.

The man, who was known to the PST from 2015, has been detained in a medical facility pending psychiatric evaluation. He is reportedly not yet fit to be questioned.

The attack was Norway's deadliest in a decade.

Independent review

In the wake of the incident, the PST says it is commissioning an independent review of the response of police and security agencies.

"Given the seriousness of the matter, it is very important that learning points and any weaknesses and errors are identified quickly in order to be able to implement measures immediately,'' the PST said in a statement.

This comes as Norwegian media have questioned the amount of time needed for officers to apprehend the suspect after the local police department was first informed of the attack.

Police have said a delay was caused as the first officers at the scene had called for reinforcements when arrows were fired at them. Officials have admitted that the suspect got away at that point and likely carried out the killings.

https://www.dw.com/en/kongsberg-attack-norwegian-police-cast-doubt-on-islamist-motive/a-59529233

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On 10/15/2021 at 9:34 PM, BansheeOne said:

Maybe the solution could also be medical: Radical lobotomy could be considered, and perhaps the use of medical induced 'locked in syndrome' may be appropriate.

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4 hours ago, BansheeOne said:

Norwegian investigators now say they believe mental illness was the main factor in the deadly bow-and-arrow attack.

Show me a collected and rational islamist (or any other -ism inspired murderer), and I show you either a case of serious schizophrenia, or a psychopath and liar.

Whether it's 51% deranged or just 49% is of, at best, academic interest. Islamofascists are known to recruit among the seriously unhinged, so this distinction is not just utterly useless but even a harmful diversion from the question about consequences for the protection of society.

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I usually agree that all those debates over ideology vs. insanity only serve the partisan audience to blame an attack on the part that accommodates their respective own beliefs best, but if all the indication of this guy's conversion we seem to have is

Quote

The suspect, a 37-year-old Dane, had allegedly posted a video on social media in 2017 in which he claimed to be a Muslim and a messenger, and to have a "mission."

I tend to come down pretty much at the "crazy" end. Particularly as he doesn't even appear to have given himself a flashy new Muslim name, had multiple contacts with the same health service he has been handed over to now and, you know, the fact he went on a rampage with bow and arrow. So in this case, the potential harmful diversion from the question of how to protect society from his kind is to keep beating the Islamist horse after initial investigation, when it's actually a mental health issue. 

Edited by BansheeOne
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5 hours ago, BansheeOne said:

By now the excitement doesn't seem to be about the perpetrator's faith, which may have been a figment of his imagination, but that he killed all his victims after first being encountered by police who initially withdrew because according to different reports, they were lacking guns or protective equipment.

https://www.dw.com/en/kongsberg-attack-norwegian-police-cast-doubt-on-islamist-motive/a-59529233

They had guns (these are usually locked down in the trunk of the patrol car until needed) and advanced on the grocery store at once after arrival (which is the textbook method), when they encountered the perpetrator inside they got arrows coming in their direction and either withdrew or stayed in place until body armour and shields could brought up, no shots were fired. While this was happening he escaped out the back of the store and remained unseen for close to 30 minutes, this was when he went on a killing spree (with a knife?) in the neighbourhood resulting in 5 deaths. When he was encountered again a warning shot was fired and he surrendered without delay.

The whole "wait until (insert)" thing that the norwegian police seem to be prone to doing in critical cases tends to lead to high deathcounts, as was the case during the Utøya-massacre in 2011.

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Could the police be sued for incompetence if not outright cowardice in that case? 

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1 hour ago, Ssnake said:

Whether it's 51% deranged or just 49% is of, at best, academic interest. Islamofascists are known to recruit among the seriously unhinged, so this distinction is not just utterly useless but even a harmful diversion from the question about consequences for the protection of society.

I'll be surprised if this specific guy was recruited. I am expecting him to have JPN Syndrome (Just Plain Nuts) and have viewed lots of kooky material. House of Windsor are Reptilians, robots are reading our minds with laser beams, Biden won the election fair and square, etc.

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50 minutes ago, TonyE said:

The whole "wait until (insert)" thing that the norwegian police seem to be prone to doing in critical cases tends to lead to high deathcounts, as was the case during the Utøya-massacre in 2011.

In fairness, if it's just a case of getting essential stuff from the car while the perp finds an unexpected hole, that may speak for misjudging the situation from the start or cause to review the policy of what is routinely carried; but you can't carry everything all the time, and I understand the hesistancy to abandon the Officer Friendly image for Robocop. Even during the 2016 Munich shooting, the plaincloth patrol which first made contact lost sight of the shooter on a parking deck despite being fully equipped and firing a shot from an SMG. Luckily he didn't kill anyone else afterwards except himself when next encountered two-and-a-half hours later. 

Mind, after the various rampage events and terror attacks over the last two decades or so, everyone in Europe seems to have gotten around to the first two or four officers on the scene going in without waiting for the special squirrels as it used to be done. Obviously that becomes more difficult if those first officers have to equip themselves with the bare essentials first. 

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  • 4 weeks later...

Well seems they didn't take any chances this time. 

Quote

Norwegian police shoot knife-wielding attacker dead in Oslo

AFP/The Local

9 November 2021
13:17 CET

Norwegian police said they shot and killed a man wielding a knife who threatened several people early Tuesday in central Oslo before attacking a patrol car that arrived on the scene.

A man shot by police, after he threatened several people with a knife. has died. 

A policeman was also injured as the officers tried to arrest the attacker in the capital’s Bislett neighbourhood, police told a press conference.

No details about the identity of the attacker or his motive were disclosed.

“We’re not excluding any motives, but there is nothing at this stage that indicates this is a terror attack,” police inspector Egil Jorgen Brekke told reporters.

According to tabloid VG, the man was Russian and in his 30s, and had been sentenced to psychiatric care in December 2020 after stabbing a man in Oslo in 2019.

[...] 

https://www.thelocal.no/20211109/norwegian-police-shoot-knife-wielding-attacker-dead-in-oslo/

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11 hours ago, BansheeOne said:

Good work. Sucks they had to do that, but there it is.

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"A police car can be seen ramming the man into a building in a bid to stop him. The man then rushes the vehicle, opens the front passenger door and leans inside the car."

Didn't really leave the police any options there, though i'm sure someone will still complain why they didn't shoot the knife off his hand instead or something...

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He was chechen, born and raised in Grosny, left for Norway with an aunt when he was 16 in 2004 or so after his father was killed, sometime later his brother was killed aswell.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 11/10/2021 at 1:58 AM, jmsaari said:

"A police car can be seen ramming the man into a building in a bid to stop him. The man then rushes the vehicle, opens the front passenger door and leans inside the car."

Didn't really leave the police any options there, though i'm sure someone will still complain why they didn't shoot the knife off his hand instead or something...

If it was the US, I'd say it sounds like a good use of force. But since it was in Europe, did it check all the requisite boxes for warm fuzzy nice behavior including warning shots fired in the direction of random uninvolved persons and prior interviews of social workers? 

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European police can be just as robust as in the US, it's just that

- Euro cops receive years of training and not just a few weeks,

- the basic assumption that a suspect is armed is not a necessity,

so Euro LEOs usually have a few more tools in the box than just the hammer. But also the hammer.

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