Because, Nordic Countries

[Rick]

35 minutes ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

Still streets ahead of most modern Artists. In fact, the older I get, the more I seem to appreciate ABBA, not because they were that good, though I certainly did like them. It just reflects how miserable most modern music seems to be by comparison. Rock is largely dead unless you are a heavy metal viking with a hearing impediment. New Age is dead. Even Rap seems in a cul de sac. What else is left but retro disco? Well I guess there is Glenn Miller, but I daresay we will get to that.

There certainly is a trend right now for retro. As I was driving right now I saw a 1950's Citroen van that are proving quite popular with small business holders today. They strip out the old engine and gearbox, and put in a 2000's Ford Transit engine and gearbox. Seriously popular at the moment.  Then there are novels and films like Ready Player One which seemed to receive a warm welcome. Major high street stores like HMV go tits up, and the only music shops left on the high street sell records. Near where I live, someone actually has setup a coffee shop with 8 bit home computers and games consoles, so people can go and relive their childhood whilst getting a caffeine fix.

You can look at it from two points of view, either there is a dearth of new talent and creativity, meaning we are left with celebrating even fairly banal chunks of the past. Or our future looks so miserable, the past looks so much brighter.

 

[lucklucky]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10055359/Cartoonist-survived-two-murder-attempts-drawing-Prophet-Mohammed-killed-car-crash.html

 

Quote

 

Swedish cartoonist who survived two murder attempts after drawing the Prophet Mohammed is killed in mystery car crash along with his two police protection officers

• Lars Vilks, 75, killed in crash in Markaryd, Sweden just before 3pm on Sunday 
• He received numerous threats to his life after drawing prophet with dog's body
• A lone gunman targeted him at a cafe in 2015  but he managed to escape bullets

 

•  

[Markus Becker]

A 30 something Dane killed 5 and wounded 2 in Kongsberg* near-ish Oslo ... with bow and arrow!

 

*Isn't that where they made Krags? 

[sunday]

1 hour ago, Markus Becker said:

A 30 something Dane killed 5 and wounded 2 in Kongsberg* near-ish Oslo ... with bow and arrow!

 

*Isn't that where they made Krags? 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10091051/Norway-bow-arrow-attacker-convert-Islam.html

[BansheeOne]

Damn Norwegian Danish Muslim indians. 

[bojan]

I blame Howard Pyle.

[TonyE]

7 hours ago, Markus Becker said:

A 30 something Dane killed 5 and wounded 2 in Kongsberg* near-ish Oslo ... with bow and arrow!

 

*Isn't that where they made Krags? 

Quite correct, still going strong as Kongsberg Defence and Aerospace (NSM, JSM, NASAM, RWS etc).

[Markus Becker]

2 hours ago, BansheeOne said:

Damn Norwegian Danish Muslim indians. 

He was known to the police! Small time criminal seeking redemption by going jihad? Same story as often before, different place and date. In any case not well connected or connected at all given his choice of weaponry. 

I wonder what a decent crossbow is going for these days. 

[TonyE]

While he did use a bow, there was also atleast one secondary weapon that as of yet is unspecified.

[Ivanhoe]

2 hours ago, bojan said:

I blame Howard Pyle.

😮

[bojan]

1 hour ago, Ivanhoe said:

😮

[lucklucky]

4 hours ago, BansheeOne said:

Damn Norwegian Danish Muslim indians. 

Quote

Danish man charged after five killed in Norway bow-and-arrow attack

Convert to Islam arrested over assault that ‘appears to be act of terrorism’, says intelligence service

Seems that only the indian part is incorrect.

[Ssnake]

To Germans, bow and arrow are very much associated with native Americans, thanks to post-war US cultural imperialism (like, classic Western movies), and maybe even more so, Karl May novels. Of course, they were used globally since at least the neolithic age, we all know that.

[Stuart Galbraith]

Nah, Agincourt innit.

Was it traditional, or a modern composite?

[TonyE]

40 minutes ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

Nah, Agincourt innit.

Was it traditional, or a modern composite?

Arrows atleast were modern ones with black shafts.

[sunday]

1 hour ago, TonyE said:

black shafts

Evil black arrows! TACTICAL black arrows! Black arrows need to be banned! Think of the children!

My condolences for your fellow nationals, Tony, nevertheless.

[Ivanhoe]

11 hours ago, bojan said:

I don't recall if I read that one, but I know I read a couple of his books when I was a lad. Great drawings.

[bojan]

Yep.

He and Robert Louis Stevenson were a reason why me and friends were making bows like crazy as kids. 

[BansheeOne]

Quote

Norway: Bow-and-arrow attacker handed over to health services

1h ago

The man who confessed to killing five people in the Norwegian town of Kongsberg is suspected to have had mental health issues. A full psychiatric evaluation has begun but will likely take months to complete.

A man who confessed to killing five people in a deadly bow-and-arrow attack in Norway was handed over to the care of health services, a prosecutor said Friday.

The 37-year-old Danish citizen went on a rampage through Kongsberg, a quiet town in southeastern Norway where he lived, on Wednesday night.

He attacked people in a store, as well as on the streets and in their homes. 

But doubts have arisen whether he can legally be held responsible for the attack.

"He was handed over to health services on Thursday evening after an evaluation of his health condition," prosecutor Ann Iren Svane Mathiassen told news agency AFP.

Two experts will observe and assess whether the man was sane at the time of the attack, Norwegian news media reported. 

A court in Kongsberg was to decide on Friday how long the man can be held, police said.

"We would like to have him in custody for at least four weeks," the prosecutor said, two of which will be in isolation.

If the judge grants the request, the man will remain under medical care instead of being jailed.

He will not be present in court at the time of the custody hearing, as he has already confessed to the killing and did not oppose a request to keep him in detention.

What do we know about the attack?

Wednesday's attack left four women and a man dead, all between the age of 50 and 70. Additionally, three people were injured.

The man was a convert to Islam and is believed to have been radicalized, police said.

Police have said the incident was probably an act of terror, given the nature of weapons used and that the perpetrator attacked his victims randomly.

"There is no doubt that the actual act appears as if it could be an act of terror," Hans Sverre Sjovold, the head of Norway's intelligence service PST, told a news conference on Thursday.

"But it's important that the investigation continues and that we establish the motive of the suspect," he said.

The man is believed to have acted alone and police said he had not contested the detention request.

[...]

https://m.dw.com/en/norway-bow-and-arrow-attacker-handed-over-to-health-services/a-59514052

[BansheeOne]

By now the excitement doesn't seem to be about the perpetrator's faith, which may have been a figment of his imagination, but that he killed all his victims after first being encountered by police who initially withdrew because according to different reports, they were lacking guns or protective equipment.

Quote

Date 16.10.2021

Kongsberg attack: Norwegian police cast doubt on Islamist motive

Norwegian investigators now say they believe mental illness was the main factor in the deadly bow-and-arrow attack. The Danish man suspected of the crime is currently in a secure medical facility.

Norwegian police investigating Wednesday's deadly attack in the southeastern town of Kongsberg said on Saturday that they were moving away from initial suspicions that Islamist motives were behind the bow-and-arrow shootings.

Speaking at a press conference, police inspector Per Thomas Omholt said there was reason to believe that the suspect, who is in custody, was not a convinced convert to Islam as was initially thought.

"The thinking is that he did not take (the conversion) very seriously. By this we mean that he did not follow or practice the traditions that are common in this culture and religion," the inspector said.  

Omholt said the killing spree, in which five people died and three were injured, was more likely to have been a result of mental illness.

He added that investigators believed the suspect had acted alone.

Known to authorities

The suspect, a 37-year-old Dane, had allegedly posted a video on social media in 2017 in which he claimed to be a Muslim and a messenger, and to have a "mission."

Norway's domestic intelligence agency had not seen the video as a criminal threat as the statements were not specific, Martin Bernsen of the Police Security Service (PST) told the Norwegian News Agency (NTB) on Friday.

The man, who was known to the PST from 2015, has been detained in a medical facility pending psychiatric evaluation. He is reportedly not yet fit to be questioned.

The attack was Norway's deadliest in a decade.

Independent review

In the wake of the incident, the PST says it is commissioning an independent review of the response of police and security agencies.

"Given the seriousness of the matter, it is very important that learning points and any weaknesses and errors are identified quickly in order to be able to implement measures immediately,'' the PST said in a statement.

This comes as Norwegian media have questioned the amount of time needed for officers to apprehend the suspect after the local police department was first informed of the attack.

Police have said a delay was caused as the first officers at the scene had called for reinforcements when arrows were fired at them. Officials have admitted that the suspect got away at that point and likely carried out the killings.

https://www.dw.com/en/kongsberg-attack-norwegian-police-cast-doubt-on-islamist-motive/a-59529233

[DougRichards]

On 10/15/2021 at 9:34 PM, BansheeOne said:

https://m.dw.com/en/norway-bow-and-arrow-attacker-handed-over-to-health-services/a-59514052

Maybe the solution could also be medical: Radical lobotomy could be considered, and perhaps the use of medical induced 'locked in syndrome' may be appropriate.

[sunday]

Or some sensible dose of lead, applied in a most kinetic way.

[Ssnake]

4 hours ago, BansheeOne said:

Norwegian investigators now say they believe mental illness was the main factor in the deadly bow-and-arrow attack.

Show me a collected and rational islamist (or any other -ism inspired murderer), and I show you either a case of serious schizophrenia, or a psychopath and liar.

Whether it's 51% deranged or just 49% is of, at best, academic interest. Islamofascists are known to recruit among the seriously unhinged, so this distinction is not just utterly useless but even a harmful diversion from the question about consequences for the protection of society.

[BansheeOne]

I usually agree that all those debates over ideology vs. insanity only serve the partisan audience to blame an attack on the part that accommodates their respective own beliefs best, but if all the indication of this guy's conversion we seem to have is

Quote

The suspect, a 37-year-old Dane, had allegedly posted a video on social media in 2017 in which he claimed to be a Muslim and a messenger, and to have a "mission."

I tend to come down pretty much at the "crazy" end. Particularly as he doesn't even appear to have given himself a flashy new Muslim name, had multiple contacts with the same health service he has been handed over to now and, you know, the fact he went on a rampage with bow and arrow. So in this case, the potential harmful diversion from the question of how to protect society from his kind is to keep beating the Islamist horse after initial investigation, when it's actually a mental health issue. 

Edited October 17, 2021 by BansheeOne

[TonyE]

5 hours ago, BansheeOne said:

By now the excitement doesn't seem to be about the perpetrator's faith, which may have been a figment of his imagination, but that he killed all his victims after first being encountered by police who initially withdrew because according to different reports, they were lacking guns or protective equipment.

https://www.dw.com/en/kongsberg-attack-norwegian-police-cast-doubt-on-islamist-motive/a-59529233

They had guns (these are usually locked down in the trunk of the patrol car until needed) and advanced on the grocery store at once after arrival (which is the textbook method), when they encountered the perpetrator inside they got arrows coming in their direction and either withdrew or stayed in place until body armour and shields could brought up, no shots were fired. While this was happening he escaped out the back of the store and remained unseen for close to 30 minutes, this was when he went on a killing spree (with a knife?) in the neighbourhood resulting in 5 deaths. When he was encountered again a warning shot was fired and he surrendered without delay.

The whole "wait until (insert)" thing that the norwegian police seem to be prone to doing in critical cases tends to lead to high deathcounts, as was the case during the Utøya-massacre in 2011.