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Bestest Korea Icbm Test Launch


Josh

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By the way interesting firsthand account from Rus TV journalist on her team travel back from NK (as it was in our morning news): Whole airplane load of journalists flying back from covering recent parade to Beijing was delayed for more then 12 hours, and at some stage it looked like computer attack, with all airport facilities like registration computers, arrival\departure monitors and even sealing lights went off at some moment, airport staff left the airport etc. Rus Embassy stuff were the only people able to reach people locked inside airport with their single-travel NK visas expired.
At the same time, covering of event itself was extraordinary free, Koreans allowing TV crews to speak to random people on their own choice, film everything they see interesting etc.

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Your impugning of South Korea is noted.

Well, he's been like that towards the country for the past three years. But to his credit, he has said a few things that were not negative about ROK.

 

One could counter him with actual substance, or I guess one can just say something is noted and sort of caste a brewing storm of focused trolling that is planned to come as a response to what has been noted. Just getting a feeling of 'here we go again'.

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ROK vice defense minister and JPN ambassador met and talked about North Korea. And so far, no problems regarding the intelligence sharing pact they signed onto last year. 9th DTT tomorrow.

 

 

 

SEOUL, April 19 (Yonhap) -- South Korea's Vice Defense Minister Hwang In-moo met Tuesday with Japan's top envoy here, mainly to discuss the North Korea issue, his ministry said.

In the 30-minute talks with Amb. Yasumasa Nagamine, the two exchanged views on the communist nation's nuclear and missile threats.

They agreed on the importance of bilateral and tripartite partnerships also involving the U.S. for an effective response, according to the ministry.

They also noted that Seoul and Japan have been sharing military intelligence without a hitch since they signed a relevant accord last year. The two sides agreed to continue sharing information on the North's provocation, added the ministry.

Their meeting came a day before the ninth session of the Defense Trilateral Talks (DTT) in Tokyo.

In the deputy defense minister-level gathering, the three regional powers plan to focus on ways to deter Pyongyang from carrying out a nuclear test and further developing its missile program, officials said.

http://english.yonhapnews.co.kr/news/2017/04/18/0200000000AEN20170418011400315.html

 

US-ROK air force joint-training "Max Thunder" exercise.

 

 

 

SEOUL, April 17 (Yonhap) -- Around 1,000 U.S. airmen and fighter jets have teamed up with South Korea's Air Force in a joint combat training to ensure their readiness against North Korea's provocations, the Pacific Command (PACOM) announced Monday.

The two-week Max Thunder exercise, one of the largest military flying exercises held annually in South Korea, is scheduled to run though April 28 at Kunsan Air Base in the southwest of the peninsula.

It involves various types of American aircraft, including F-16s from the 7th Air Force, AV-8Bs from the 12th Marine Aircraft Group and EA-18Gs from the Electronic Attack Squadron 132, all of which are based in South Korea and Japan, according to PACOM.

South Korea has dispatched roughly 500 personnel in support of the F-15K, F-16, F-5E and F-4E fighters, as well as other Air Force planes in operation.

"This exercise will rigorously test our aerial combat capability and highlights the ironclad commitment between the U.S. and (South Korea), and the multifaceted capabilities we possess in this theater," said Lt. Gen. Thomas W. Bergeson, 7th Air Force commander.

Tensions have escalated on the peninsula, with North Korea ratcheting up war threats and the U.S. toughening its stance.

The North test-fired a missile from its east coast Sunday, a day after a massive military parade in Pyongyang, but it apparently failed, South Korean and U.S. defense officials said.

The allies plan to hold another annual joint Air Force training, code-named "Vigilant Ace," in the latter half of this year.

http://english.yonhapnews.co.kr/national/2017/04/17/0301000000AEN20170417003200315.html

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Meanwhile, the 30+ member South Korean diplomatic and government delegation traveling to the International Hydrographic Conference in Monaco to lobby for the world to immediately begin using "The East Sea" (east of what?) in reference to the Sea of Japan takes precedence.

 

 

I agree East sea is bad choice. Firstly it's already semi-taken, as I believe some languages (German, Swedish, Finnish, Dutch, Danish) use it to refer to Baltic Sea. Ironically Estonians use West Sea in reference to Baltic Sea.

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Meanwhile, the 30+ member South Korean diplomatic and government delegation traveling to the International Hydrographic Conference in Monaco to lobby for the world to immediately begin using "The East Sea" (east of what?) in reference to the Sea of Japan takes precedence.

 

 

I agree East sea is bad choice. Firstly it's already semi-taken, as I believe some languages (German, Swedish, Finnish, Dutch, Danish) use it to refer to Baltic Sea. Ironically Estonians use West Sea in reference to Baltic Sea.

 

 

Additionally, the Vietnamese are calling the South China Sea as the "East Sea".

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Nobu Glad to see South Korea and Koreans have their priorities straight at least.

 

 

You’re kidding, right?

 

 

Irony for me, but, sadly, not on the part of South Korea and Koreans. Testing nuclear delivery systems with ranges far exceeding those needed to strike South Korea just isn't that much of a provocation to Seoul, the same way South Koreans are unlikely to lose much sleep over a Kimpodong VII missile with anti-Japanese epithets scrawled on it in Korean.

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Well, he's been like that towards the country for the past three years. But to his credit, he has said a few things that were not negative about ROK.

 

 

I'm still young. Give me time.

 

Any word at all on when they plan on invading Holland?

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Well, he's been like that towards the country for the past three years. But to his credit, he has said a few things that were not negative about ROK.

 

 

I'm still young. Give me time.

 

Any word at all on when they plan on invading Holland?

 

 

Holland as in something about going to the UN about the name of the sea?

 

It's annoying, I'll give you that much.

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I was just going to post about that. The earlier reports about USS Carl Vinson turning around from Singapore and coming back was incorrect. Interesting, this webpage posted in another thread a couple of days ago shows that USS Carl Vinson actually continued on to the Indian Ocean.

http://www.gonavy.jp/CVLocation.html

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I was just going to post about that. The earlier reports about USS Carl Vinson turning around from Singapore and coming back was incorrect. Interesting, this webpage posted in another thread a couple of days ago shows that USS Carl Vinson actually continued on to the Indian Ocean.

http://www.gonavy.jp/CVLocation.html

 

It may also indicate aircraft carrier strike was never planned – but cruise missiles from submarines were chosen. Wonder if China able to track AC groups…

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Nobu Glad to see South Korea and Koreans have their priorities straight at least.

 

 

You’re kidding, right?

 

 

Irony for me, but, sadly, not on the part of South Korea and Koreans. Testing nuclear delivery systems with ranges far exceeding those needed to strike South Korea just isn't that much of a provocation to Seoul, the same way South Koreans are unlikely to lose much sleep over a Kimpodong VII missile with anti-Japanese epithets scrawled on it in Korean.

 

 

Either way you view it, going by the poll posted here indicates that North Korea is not viewed favorably by the population as a whole. As far as I can tell, South Korea in the last decade was probably feeling less of a security threat from North Korea. And South Korean economy continued to grow as well as various entertainment industries such as music, TV and movie drama, and the gaming e-sports. So, much of the population spend more time paying attention to other things. And so any kind of hard stance towards North Korea might have softened a little, and probably the will to fight softened even more so. I am not very informed but the general sense to me is that politically and diplomatically speaking, it was also a time when real diplomatic efforts were applied to try and steer North Korea around, such as the Kaesong Industrial Regional where South Korean companies opened up workshops on a plot of land in North Korea and hired North Korean workers. In order to make that happen, a softer stance by the ROK side is probably necessary. ISTR that there was a couple of family reunions that occurred between families that got separated between the North and South. So a softening approach would help realizing such reunions as well. It seems to me that the war movie Taegukgi, a good war movie in its own way, highlights the tragedy of brothers being split by the two opposing Korea camps. Well, with all that said, it was probably worth giving a sincere try in trying to develop some sort of relation between the two Koreas.

 

But even with that, South Korea is still its own country, they achieved democracy on their own because they wanted to end dictatorship. And they just exercised their voice in the mechanisms of democracy again by ousting Park Gyun-hye just this past winter. I think the great majority would not be willing to concede their democratic features for the sake of accepting the ways of North Korea.

 

I think their is probably some South Korean resentment to the American presence. But that resentment comes after accepting the American presence first. Strategically speaking, South Korea needs a close relationship with a major power, and the US is the best for South Korea. Once in a while, they may forget that. Maybe some have started thinking about China in the last 3 or so years. But ROK cares very mch about economic growth and China trying to use its economic might card on ROK cost China a lot of friendly points. I think China underestimated ROK's taste for every single ounce of economic growth and made a mistake by applying economic punishment to ROK as a response to THAAD. Well, we'll see if China can recover favorable views from ROK.

Edited by JasonJ
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I was just going to post about that. The earlier reports about USS Carl Vinson turning around from Singapore and coming back was incorrect. Interesting, this webpage posted in another thread a couple of days ago shows that USS Carl Vinson actually continued on to the Indian Ocean.

http://www.gonavy.jp/CVLocation.html

 

It may also indicate aircraft carrier strike was never planned – but cruise missiles from submarines were chosen. Wonder if China able to track AC groups…

 

 

China sometimes shadows US warship movements, like when the US is goes on patrol through the SCS or when the US conducts joint-training such as Malabar. But by the time USS Carl Vinson would have reached SIngapore, I think it is likely that PLA Navy could no longer be shadowing and thus probably couldn't have followed USS Carl Vinson into the Indian Ocean, and thus, could have also been under the impression that the carrier was on its way back. Trump did mention subs in his tweets "much stronger than carriers" or something like that.

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If Korea and Koreans are needy of a close relationship with, and handouts from, a major power, they need not look so far away.

 

They can simply turn as one in the morning to face the "East Sea of Korea" they love so much, and welcome the inevitability of the rising sun at dawn.

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If Korea and Koreans are needy of a close relationship with, and handouts from, a major power, they need not look so far away.

 

They can simply turn as one in the morning to face the "East Sea of Korea" they love so much, and welcome the inevitability of the rising sun at dawn.

 

One of the nice features for ROK about the US is the geographical distance of the two countries. By being far, it sort of gives a somewhat greater feeling of independence.

 

It was a feature that Korea wanted when it was looking for a stronger friend back in the late 1800s. China couldn't be depended on as they were too much out of date. They didn't trust the Japanese although there was a Pro-Japan faction, but was a smaller of a number of factions in Korea at the time. Two other countries that were a possibility for Korea to find a strong partner with back then, the US and Russia. Both could offere deterrence strength but at the same time, the central geographical point of both countries were further, so Korea felt its chances to pursue its own modernization would stand better chance of succeeding. But the US was preoccupied with the Philippines. So Korea chose Russia. Naturally, Japan very much did not like the idea of a Euro power gaining a foothold next door and Russian presences was growing just north of Hokkaido as well. Korea might have not expected Russia to be defeated by the Japanese.

 

Well anyway, I think it is going to fast to suggest having ROK look towards Japan as a primary strong partner. First just bringing relations to just a level of being OK-ish. Then see how things are, but I think just keeping OK-ish levels is best as to not rock the boat too much. Besides, post-war Japan never had the kind of military deterrence strength. So it's a no starter idea for the past decades anyway.

Edited by JasonJ
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So Korea chose Russia.

 

Choice for minor powers, such as various African tribal nations of the late 19th Century and the Great Korean/Joeson Empire, was an illusion. Korea and Koreans could have chosen the United Federation of Planets, for all the good that would have done them.

 

Reality was the day Japan chose Korea.

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Nobu Irony for me, but, sadly, not on the part of South Korea and Koreans.

 

 

South Korea has a tough choice to make, I can strong opinions for and against the American position, so it'll be no surprise that whatever Trump does will be hotly contested in South Korea. What’s harder to see is why this all had to come to head at the exact moment South Korea has no sitting president.

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So Korea chose Russia.

 

Choice for minor powers, such as various African tribal nations of the late 19th Century and the Great Korean/Joeson Empire, was an illusion. Korea and Koreans could have chosen the United Federation of Planets, for all the good that would have done them.

 

Reality was the day Japan chose Korea.

 

Well sure, Korea was a minor power. Incidentally, Moscow and Tokyo had negotiations in May 1896 that almost succeeded to divide Korea up into different spheres with a demilitarized zone in between. But ultimately, Russia and Japan would be unable to make an agreement on the division of Korea which led to war between the two of them.

 

But that is sort of besides the point. Kojong was anti-Japan and he and his ligation were generally sheltered by Russia from the Japanese. But before that, he, and Queen Min, were Pro-China, but China was knocked out by Japan. The Taewan'gun was in opposition to Kojong and thus was on the Japanese side because of shared opposition to Kojong. Also during the late 1890s, Japan was the most commercially active in Korea in comparison to Russia and other powers even though King Kojong was on Russia's side.

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Nobu Irony for me, but, sadly, not on the part of South Korea and Koreans.

 

 

South Korea has a tough choice to make, I can strong opinions for and against the American position, so it'll be no surprise that whatever Trump does will be hotly contested in South Korea. What’s harder to see is why this all had to come to head at the exact moment South Korea has no sitting president.

 

 

Do some real research first before forming conspiracy theories ;)

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I was just going to post about that. The earlier reports about USS Carl Vinson turning around from Singapore and coming back was incorrect. Interesting, this webpage posted in another thread a couple of days ago shows that USS Carl Vinson actually continued on to the Indian Ocean.

http://www.gonavy.jp/CVLocation.html

It may also indicate aircraft carrier strike was never planned – but cruise missiles from submarines were chosen. Wonder if China able to track AC groups…

 

China sometimes shadows US warship movements, like when the US is goes on patrol through the SCS or when the US conducts joint-training such as Malabar. But by the time USS Carl Vinson would have reached SIngapore, I think it is likely that PLA Navy could no longer be shadowing and thus probably couldn't have followed USS Carl Vinson into the Indian Ocean, and thus, could have also been under the impression that the carrier was on its way back. Trump did mention subs in his tweets "much stronger than carriers" or something like that.

 

China has an ocean survelliance satellite network like the US. The only way they could mistake a CSG for what it is would be if the group was under strict EMCON. Even then they may acquire it from EO satellites periodically.

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I was just going to post about that. The earlier reports about USS Carl Vinson turning around from Singapore and coming back was incorrect. Interesting, this webpage posted in another thread a couple of days ago shows that USS Carl Vinson actually continued on to the Indian Ocean.

http://www.gonavy.jp/CVLocation.html

It may also indicate aircraft carrier strike was never planned – but cruise missiles from submarines were chosen. Wonder if China able to track AC groups…

 

China sometimes shadows US warship movements, like when the US is goes on patrol through the SCS or when the US conducts joint-training such as Malabar. But by the time USS Carl Vinson would have reached SIngapore, I think it is likely that PLA Navy could no longer be shadowing and thus probably couldn't have followed USS Carl Vinson into the Indian Ocean, and thus, could have also been under the impression that the carrier was on its way back. Trump did mention subs in his tweets "much stronger than carriers" or something like that.

 

China has an ocean survelliance satellite network like the US. The only way they could mistake a CSG for what it is would be if the group was under strict EMCON. Even then they may acquire it from EO satellites periodically.

 

 

Well even if so, at a lesser tier, Chinese media would still be left in the dark about it. assuming the PLA military wouldn't inform media groups so soon about the actual location of carrier group.

 

Curious to know, I recall a thread made by Corinthian some time ago asking about satellites of different countries and their ability to detect ships. Not knowing what precisely enables that capability, I didn't know how to asses if any Japanese theoretically had the ability. Anyway, to my question, what instruments enable such observations? Also, what are their orbital paths of the ocean surveillance satellite network like? Does it always have coverage of much of the waters at all times? Or is it more like a 30 minute window of observation that sweeps over the surface along the orbital path?

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The US employs a system usually referred to as 'White Cloud' in open sources, now generally called NOSS in the open press. It works basically as GPS in reverse: instead of broadcasting a signal and timestamp to determine position, they receive ship signals and record the exact signature and timestamp. The sats work in constellations of two (newer) or three (older) and use the time differentiation to geolocate the source.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naval_Ocean_Surveillance_System

 

The Chinese have a similar system, go through the sate list and note the launches that involve triplets of satellites:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yaogan

 

These sats rely on the target emitting a signal readily identifiable to a specific platform. IE, SPY-1 = Aegis ship, SPY-1 + SPS-49 = Tico, AN/SPN-46 = CVN, etc. If you shut down your platform specific radars you can confuse the situation (ie SPS-49 could be Tico, Perry, or Nimitz) and you can also just run dark or with a short ranged civilian nav radar only. You can also have an emitter package that fakes the emissions of the desired platform places on some other ship.

 

Another method of ship detection is radar satellites...the Soviet RORSATs would have been the first to do this but modern SAR satellites can detect ships and to some extent classify them. The PRC SAR sats are also listed in the wiki entry I posted.

 

There's also good old fashion cameras, but this isn't super useful for initial detection since it involves a narrow field of view and processing all the returned photos in one way or another. What an EO/IR sat can do is ID targets and remove ambiguity.

 

 

All of these systems operate in low earth orbit and have very short dwell times, which is why you see a half dozen constellations of NOSS satellites for both the PRC and US. There would not be persistent coverage of any patch of water. That said for a CVN conducting normal flight exercises (ie not EMCON) as the Vinson was supposed to be doing with the RAN, it should be pretty obvious to the Chinese what it is and roughly where it is.

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