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# Bestest Korea Icbm Test Launch

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I mean, if you have crazy neighbor with nukes, why poke him with stick and give him opportunity to hit back? Isn't better variants are don't escalate things OR go full retard and bang him with baseball bat?
And I clearly can't see crimea analogy here.

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It seems to me that positioning a taskforce with a SM-3 equipped ship a few hundred miles off Nork coast and plinking their Pukguksong-2 rockets would be a very good way to deny Norks data needed to perfect their ICBM program.

As far as I know there has been an SM-3 ship off Korea for most of a decade. I'll google around and see if I can find a reference.

EDIT: can't find a reference. Did find a document documenting the possibility from ten years ago:

Edited by Josh
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I mean, if you have crazy neighbor with nukes, why poke him with stick and give him opportunity to hit back? Isn't better variants are don't escalate things OR go full retard and bang him with baseball bat?

And I clearly can't see crimea analogy here.

The one benefit I see to engaging DPRK missiles is that for ICBM tests, they couldn't effectively do end to end tests. Likely the most they could do is 2nd stage separation. Clearly retarding ICBM development is in US interests. In the case of these last four launches however, I believe it was a operational type and there would be little gain to engaging the targets since they fell on open water.

The down side is you can expect Lil' Kim to blow something up if that keeps happening. Also it would rankle China to no end to have a proven ABM capability sitting off its coast actively making its BM threat to its neighbors look hollow, right during the 19th party congress.

So its not clear to me that the benefits out way the cons, at least for at this time.

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I mean, if you have crazy neighbor with nukes, why poke him with stick and give him opportunity to hit back? Isn't better variants are don't escalate things OR go full retard and bang him with baseball bat?

And I clearly can't see crimea analogy here.

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Glen in 5, 4, 3, 2, 1..

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blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.

And finally, blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahvvblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahvblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.

blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.

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Blah

Well, okay then... I quess? But yeah, definitely can't disagree with your beautifuly constructed arguments. Sorry to all for being so blatantly wrong.

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Blah

Well, okay then... I quess? But yeah, definitely can't disagree with your beautifuly constructed arguments. Sorry to all for being so blatantly wrong.

Nah, it wasn't beautiful overall. Well it was beautiful to me, and probably to some others for probably the same reason, for odd reasons. But certainly not beautiful to you and your question and you did nothing wrong so you have nothing to apologize for. I apologize to you.

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Nah, it wasn't beautiful overall. Well it was beautiful to me, and probably to some others for probably the same reason, for odd reasons. But certainly not beautiful to you and your question and you did nothing wrong so you have nothing to apologize for. I apologize to you.

Well, there's nothing to apologize from your side too) Just a joke.

But my point stands: I definitely not think that poking missiles during tests is good idea. It should be soft measures like now or fast and full destruction of theit nuke potential. No need to let them window to blow SK up.

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Nah, it wasn't beautiful overall. Well it was beautiful to me, and probably to some others for probably the same reason, for odd reasons. But certainly not beautiful to you and your question and you did nothing wrong so you have nothing to apologize for. I apologize to you.

Well, there's nothing to apologize from your side too) Just a joke.

But my point stands: I definitely not think that poking missiles during tests is good idea. It should be soft measures like now or fast and full destruction of theit nuke potential. No need to let them window to blow SK up.

Well your point seems to be the position being taken, so its a fair point. I suppose the question then is then to what extant should North Korea be allowed to continue development? Some 10 or so years ago, it was not a situation of questioning the rationale of poking a nutty power that has nukes should when recommend shooting down one of their rockets. That is because they were not a nuclear power. Sanctions and diplomacy has failed in stopping North Korea in developing nuclear capability and further advancing their BM capability. So staying the course of so called soft measure such as sanctions and continued diplomatic talks of various kinds, such as 6 party talks, just RoK-DPRK talks, etc. seems like the result be the continued development of their capabilities. While the growth of the nuke and BM capabilities is slow, sanctions and such are supposed to have a reverse effect. It was hoped that the North Korean regime would collapse on its own. But not only does their nuke and BM capabilities seem to continue to grow, they apparently squeezed out a 1% GDP growth for the year 2016.

So that brings us to the other option, real military action. I think we can break it down into two kinds of military actions. The first kind being lots of airstrikes. The second being complete all out with a full ground campaign.

The first kind will initially be strikes solely against BM and nuke related facilities. It should be expected that North Korea will respond by bombarding Seoul. Perhaps they'll send some BMs to Japan as well. So US-led air force will also have to be available in great capacity to detect, target, and destroy as quickly as possible, any North Korean artillery and mobile BM launches that move out from hiding. Perhaps a sort of special forces raids as part of decapitation attempts can go along with this.

The second type being a full out ground campaign would be real dangerous because just like how China became involved in the first Korean War, it is reasonable to expect China to get involved in a second time. The reason being that North Korea growth and development is aided by China to begin with. There's a Chinese company that helps North Korea's nuclear development. And as much as one can tell, China doesn't really apply sanctions on North Korea. So no matter how much the US, RoK, Japan, etc. apply sanctions, the effect is reduced because China doesn't comply. More points can be made as to why China doesn't apply meaningful levels of sanctions. It's often said that China is actually quite annoyed with North Korea in the last few years because North Korean provocations are also said to be against China's interest. It's probably true, but I'm also a little skeptical of that point since I think China can use North Korean provocations as an additional pressure point on the US-led said in the whole Asia-Pacific region. Other pressure points being the South China Sea, Taiwan, and the Senkaku islands. Well that is a whole other matter.

Anyway, there have a been a few cases where nuclear development of one country has been removed. The US did successfully pressure Libya to abandon its nuclear program in 2003. Israel carried out operation Opera against Iraq's nuclear program. And of course there is the controversial Obama deal with Iran that is yet to be seen as to how effective it will be in delaying Iran's nuke program. Mind you, I'm briefly walking over loads of big topics here.

So for North Korea, would something like what Israel did be a good idea? It would delay, but it wouldn't stop the whole program. It may make things worse. But other means don't to seem to get North Korea to stop either. The soft approach isn't having a reversible effect on North Korea and by development continuing despite the soft approach, it might just make for a more difficult future, thus making an argument for doing something about it now that is greater than the soft approach but may still not trigger the armed conflict of either the first kind or second kind that I mentioned above.

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No one is going to pre-emptively strike the DPRK, IMO. They might shoot down the missiles, but I can't even see Trump initiating a full scale war, and any limited war would rapidly become an all in type war. I'm positive the ROK, PRC, and Japan would not be in for that and two of those countries are US hosts and the third is a nuclear power.

Long before anyone starts air strikes against the DPRK I can see the ROK or Japan going break out nuclear.

EDIT: also the DPRK will never give up its nuke program, and short of a war it can't be stopped. This is the new normal.

Edited by Josh
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Indeed, there is little to no possibility that soft power can eliminate NK nuke programm entirely. Just because there is possibility of use of hard power, they will never let it down.

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blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.

http://www.tank-net.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=39564&page=92&do=findComment&comment=1293594

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blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.

http://www.tank-net.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=39564&page=92&do=findComment&comment=1293594

I'll leave it to the TN moderator to do something about it.

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I mean, if you have crazy neighbor with nukes, why poke him with stick and give him opportunity to hit back? Isn't better variants are don't escalate things OR go full retard and bang him with baseball bat?

And I clearly can't see crimea analogy here.

Well, Blah blah blah Blah blah blah and Blah blah blah so blah blah blah. Also, blah blah blah blah blah blah Blah blah blah Blah blah blah and Blah blah blah so blah blah blah. If, blah blah blah blah blah blah, blah blah blah blah blah blah Blah blah blah Blah blah blah and Blah blah blah so blah blah blah. Also, blah blah blah blah blah blah. Therefore, Blah blah blah Blah blah blah and Blah blah blah so blah blah blah. Also, blah blah blah blah blah blah Blah blah blah Blah blah blah and Blah blah blah so blah blah blah. Also, blah blah blah blah blah blah.

Blah blah blah Blah blah blah and Blah blah blah so blah blah blah. If, blah blah blah blah blah blah. Because of that blah blah blah blah blah blah. blah blah blah blah blah blah.

blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.

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Glen in 5, 4, 3, 2, 1..

Blah blah blah Blah blah blah and Blah blah blah so blah blah blah. Also, blah blah blah blah blah blah Blah blah blah Blah blah blah and Blah blah blah so blah blah blah. If, blah blah blah blah blah blah, blah blah blah blah blah blah Blah blah blah Blah blah blah and Blah blah blah so blah blah blah. Also, blah blah blah blah blah blah. Therefore, Blah blah blah Blah blah blah and Blah blah blah so blah blah blah. Also, blah blah blah blah blah blah Blah blah blah Blah blah blah and Blah blah blah so blah blah blah. Also, blah blah blah blah blah blah.

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blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.

And finally, blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahvvblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahvblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.

blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.

Forum software glitch?

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Well, all the Malaysians in DPRK get to enjoy it without end.

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Well, all the Malaysians in DPRK get to enjoy it without end.

Malaysians in bestest Korea? Why are they there? The weather is rather shitty compared to tropical Malaysia.

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Well, all the Malaysians in DPRK get to enjoy it without end.

Malaysians in bestest Korea? Why are they there? The weather is rather shitty compared to tropical Malaysia.

Embassy, UN program staff and their families.

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Well, all the Malaysians in DPRK get to enjoy it without end.

Malaysia has now locked down all the DPRK citizens in their country...which has to be the most amazing thing that can happen in your life if your a north korean.

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Well, Blah...

Forum software glitch?

Nope, a human relations glitch.

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First stages of THAAD have arrived in South Korea.

In a surprise move, South Korea and the United States began deploying the highly controversial anti-missile system here, just hours after North Korea test-fired ballistic missiles that it said were aimed at US bases in Japan.

The allies confirmed Tuesday that two launchers of the US’ Terminal High Altitude Area Defense system arrived in South Korea’s Osan Air Base late Monday via the C-17 Globemaster III transport aircraft.

They are the first batch of the missile defense system designed to enhance the allies’ capabilities in countering North Korea’s growing missile threats. The deployment will be completed as early as next month, Seoul officials said.

“Continued provocative actions by North Korea, to include yesterday’s launch of multiple missiles, only confirm the prudence of our alliance decision last year to deploy THAAD to South Korea,” US Pacific Commander Adm. Harry Harris said in a statement.

Consisting of multiple launchers and an advanced radar, THAAD is intended to intercept short- and medium-range ballistic missiles at high altitudes. But its top-notch surveillance capability has unnerved China, which argues the system targets it.

Following the announcement, Beijing voiced its strong opposition to THAAD, warning Seoul and Washington will pay “consequences” for deploying the platform that would undermine its national security.

“We strongly oppose the decision to deploy THAAD and will take necessary steps to defend our security interest,” China’s Foreign Ministry spokesperson Geng Shuang said. “South Korea and the US will bear the consequences. ... We urge them not to go further down that wrong path.”

Fearing that THAAD’s radar may spy deep into its territory, China has been stepping up its retaliatory measures against South Korea, most recently instructing the country’s travel agencies to stop selling tour packages.

Seoul‘s defense and ministries said they did not notify China of the development in advance, highlighting that it was “solely” for the defense of South Korea against the North‘s threats.

South Korea’s acting President Hwang Kyo-ahn and US president Donald Trump spoke on the phone early Tuesday, hours after the arrival of THAAD elements here. They shared the need to sternly deal with the North’s latest launch, casting it as “not only a breach of UN Security Council resolutions, but also a provocation against the international community,” Cheong Wa Dae said.

Trump also highlighted the need for closer bilateral cooperation in coping with North Korea’s military issues, including its missile and nuclear provocations, through in-depth discussions at future two-way high-level meetings.

The newly arrived launchers and other equipment have been transferred to a US military base for a temporary stay until being installed at its site in Seongju, North Gyeongsang Province, Seoul’s Defense Ministry said, declining to elaborate on its current location due to security concerns.

The move came as the allies are quickening the deployment process in part to minimize any potential setbacks due to political uncertainties in South Korea, which is expected to hold a presidential election within a few months. Seoul’s military acquired land to host the battery last month from Lotte Group and is now in consultations with the US Forces Korea over its handover.

But the ministry refused to provide a detailed deployment schedule and how many launchers will be stationed eventually, citing security concerns. A THAAD battery is comprised of six truck-mounted launchers, 48 interceptors, a fire control and communications unit and an AN/TPY-2 radar, but the one in the US’ Guam base has four launchers.

Ministry officials also ruled out the possibility for the new system would be employed during the joint annual military exercises. They have said the allies would apply an operational guideline to counter North Korea’s nuclear and missile facilities including the use of THAAD for the Key Resolve computer-simulated drills scheduled to kick off next week.

“The THAAD batteries did not come here to participate in the combined exercise,” said an official from the Combined Forces Command. “The deployment process has just begun.”

http://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20170307001116

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F-35Bs to participate in the current US-RoK annual joint exercise.

SEOUL, March 2 (Yonhap) -- The U.S. Air Force's F-35B stealth fighter will take part in the ongoing Foal Eagle joint exercise with South Korea to hone its precision strike capabilities, military officials familiar with the matter said Thursday.

The F-35B Lightening II fighter is expected to carry out ground attack maneuvers during the two-month-long exercise between Seoul and Washington, the officials told Yonhap News Agency asking not to be identified.

"The addition of the F-35B is meant to deliver a strong message to the North that they could be used against the rogue state in case of a conflict breaking out on the Korean Peninsula," an official said.

The first F-35B squadron was deployed to Iwakuni, Japan, in January amid growing nuclear and missile threats posed by North Korea.

The F-35B -- which is capable of short takeoffs and vertical landings -- is regarded by the military as a strategic asset that can be employed to hit well defended key targets in North Korea.

The stealth fighter can reach speeds of up to Mach 1.6 and has a radar system that is capable of detecting a target up to 500 kilometers away.

http://english.yonhapnews.co.kr/national/2017/03/02/0301000000AEN20170302004900315.html

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Considering how many short range ballistic missiles the Norks have, would I be correct in assuming a single THAAD battery is a feel good measure intended to stick a thumb in China's eye? I guess the radar is at least still good for early warning regardless.

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Perhaps. But China has been incrementally increasing economic punishment on South Korea. A drastic increase in THAAD might be met with a drastic economic hit to South Korea, in which case, might raise anti-THAAD sentiment beyond tolerable levels. South Korea needs some time to diversify their exports a little more.

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Considering how many short range ballistic missiles the Norks have, would I be correct in assuming a single THAAD battery is a feel good measure intended to stick a thumb in China's eye? I guess the radar is at least still good for early warning regardless.

I'm guessing it's supposed to be used only against rockets equipped with WMD payloads. Other intelligence sources would have to pinpoint which ones those are.

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Well I suppose it could be limited to larger contacts/faster ascent times to narrow down rockets with larger throw weights. I'm not familiar enough with DPRKs arsenal to know what the likely target set would be. Clearly any rocket could reach Seoul, even just 122mm with some sarin on it.

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