Linux Mint 18 Sarah

[nabqrules]

I would go with the samsung, the 750 is the one step down from the 850's (meaning 1% slower , it's more than that but from a HDD to SSD it doesn't matter)

I personally had one bad Crucial (out of 3) and have run across several from customers in the shop. No issues with any of Samsung's offerings.

Edited October 4, 2016 by nabqrules

[Corinthian]

I have two Samsung 850 Evos 1TB (one for each laptop) as the boot drive and so far it's ok. Sunday recommended it to me. Installation and migrating of software from HDD to SDD using the Samsung Magician or whatever it's called migration software was painless/flawless.

Edited October 4, 2016 by Corinthian

[Ivanhoe]

The strain to not blurt out "OMG ARE YOU INSANE WHY NOT LINUX" in the "Windows 10 Speculation" thread has been giving me involuntary twitches. They've been swapping stories about Windows trying to auto-upgrade and eating itself instead.

 

But to each their own. Not everyone wants to learn Linux-based alternatives for all their Windows applications. Live and let live. Deep breaths. Walking away from keyboard now.

 

If Linux could replace Windows XX, it would have. I've been using Unix and Unix derivatives for far longer than Windows (late 1980s Convex supercomputer, Korn shell for interactive, csh rather than sh for scripting because shell scripting in Bourne is considered harmful), am Red Hat certified, so its not as if I'm afraid to learn something new*. But the reality is that workplace computers are all Win10 Pro by decree, all servers are 2008 R2 by decree. No exceptions, period. And sadly, my personal computing gear is an extension of my workplace. I run Hyper-V on my home desktop and home laptop, because I must run it at work. Yes, Hyper-V is still not ready for prime time. My employer has all the technical agility of a mushroom. They could go to WSUS and control the update process, I could dust off some seldom-used brain cells and show them how, but no.

 

Despite all the Microsoft bashing, I have to say that encrypting a system drive with Bitlocker makes LUKS+dmcrypt look pretty stupid by comparison.

 

* Hell, try doing software development on NOS2. Direct access and indirect access memory, moving storage to tape to get the temple priests off my back, those were the days...

[Rickard N]

I've worked for an organization that moved away from linux to windows for the reason that it is overall cheaper to run and easier to find people that can do it. The Linux mail server that was replaced hadn't been backed up for a year or two because it took too long to run the backup and when the persons that had set it up quit it was near impossible to find someone that could pick it up.

I have been running both linux and windows at home since 2000 at least and learned linux in -98 when I began studies and I have been working in both environments (I have been working with mac too btw).

There are pros and cons for all OS imho. One of the pros for windows is the gaming

 

/R

[Ivanhoe]

I've worked for an organization that moved away from linux to windows for the reason that it is overall cheaper to run and easier to find people that can do it. The Linux mail server that was replaced hadn't been backed up for a year or two because it took too long to run the backup and when the persons that had set it up quit it was near impossible to find someone that could pick it up.

 

True, it is easier to find Windows server admins than Linux server admins, particularly in some towns (here in the US, if you've got .mil in town, you've got Linux admins available). IME, here in the US the trend is for HR to unilaterally decide that position X has salary Y, regardless of notions of supply or demand. Since Linux admins tend to have higher wages, problem.

 

While Windows Server and AD is now pretty easy to manage, IMHO Exchange is a nightmare. To do it properly, you have to have an Exchange specialist. No different from sendmail on the Unix/Linux platform, but there are better options.

 

Getting back to desktop Windows v Linux, for me the killer app that Windows offers is Windows Explorer. I have an extremely extensive folder structure going back 20+ years. I can do everything I want to do (aside from backups) in one Windows Explorer window. I have yet to see a Linux file manager come close to Windows Explorer.

[Murph]

I use Windows explorer a lot, as I also use Task Manager to keep track of what is using resources on my system. HTOP is ok, but not the same, and the Mint file explorer is ok, but not brilliant. However, the fact that I can do an upgrade WITHOUT a re-boot...amazing. Compared to MS products, Linux is, not ugly, but just not as attractively polished. I have developed a great fondness for Alpine email, since it removes the distractions for me.

[TTK Ciar]

I like the shell (bash or tcsh) and the many powerful UNIXy file utilities to negotiate the 5.9 million files on my home workstation (and tens of millions of files on archive.org servers, when I worked there). When my employer has required me to interact with Windows, I've installed Cygwin to get the same capabilities. The only time I've seen the point of a GUI file manager was when I had to manage a lot of NFS mountpoints and net shares -- Nautilus managed the passwords and mountpoints so I didn't have to.

 

Over here on the left coast, Linux-using employers are easier to come by, as are Linux sysadmins. Windows becomes more prevalent as one moves further away from Seattle or San Francisco, though. Silly Valley companies seem to "get it", on the most part, that Linux-based infrastructure lets you do more with a fraction as many servers and a fraction of the TCO, even if individual employees cost more.

 

Out of curiosity, what does Task Manager track for you that top + iostat + vmstat + netstat + ntop + nmap don't? I don't have access to a Windows machine these days or I'd check it out myself. I've been meaning to write my own top-like utility, mostly to aggregate similar processes in the display, and am interested in stealing good ideas.

Edited October 4, 2016 by TTK Ciar

[Murph]

I think it puts it all in one place, with pretty displays, I like HTOP for the most part.

[lucklucky]

Visual Interface and intuitive - which includes respecting existing conventions - is the most important thing today.

 

That is the thing that made and still makes Linux loose to Windows. The people that developed Linux does not grasp that common people have no problem taking a learning on an OS but the way that learning is done is crucial.

That learning is what can be called holistic, it is the interaction with OS that is the learning. Is is like a children learning a language. You don't send a children of 1 year to school.

Edited October 5, 2016 by lucklucky

[Rickard N]

Powershell is to windows what bash or tcsh is to linux imho. I've started fiddling with it the last couple of years and it's pretty powerful. I have also a cygwin installed on all my machines, mostly because it is still the best ssh-terminal I've seen on a windows machine

 

/R

[Murph]

Waht do you mean? Mint 18 is more "windows" looking than any other I have used.

Visual Interface and intuitive - which includes respecting existing conventions - is the most important thing today.

 

That is the thing that made and still makes Linux loose to Windows. The people that developed Linux does not grasp that common people have no problem taking a learning on an OS but the way that learning is done is crucial.

That learning is what can be called holistic, it is the interaction with OS that is the learning. Is is like a children learning a language. You don't send a children of 1 year to school.

[TTK Ciar]

Aye, Linux developers do not develop the user interface. The user interface is split out into its own layers -- the windowing system (X11 or Wayland) and the window manager (of which there are dozens). An entirely different set of developers develop each of the window managers. The window manager determines the look and feel of the user interface, and they range from extremely Windows-like to not Windows-like at all.

 

Cinnamon, the default window manager for Linux Mint, is very Windows-like. The typical Windows user shouldn't have much trouble just sitting down and using it.

 

 

Android has its own, proprietary window manager with a very different look-and-feel. And Ubuntu Linux's is just wacky.

 

My wife will likely never touch Linux in her life, as she has only seen me use it with fvwm, a fairly simple window manager from the 1990's. I really should set up a spare machine with a more modern desktop environment so she can see that Linux can be something other than mysterious black-on-white boxes.

 

 

I like my 1990's window manager, though .. it does everything I need a window manager to do, and it will remain simple and sane forever.

[lucklucky]

 

Waht do you mean? Mint 18 is more "windows" looking than any other I have used.

Visual Interface and intuitive - which includes respecting existing conventions - is the most important thing today.

 

That is the thing that made and still makes Linux loose to Windows. The people that developed Linux does not grasp that common people have no problem taking a learning on an OS but the way that learning is done is crucial.

That learning is what can be called holistic, it is the interaction with OS that is the learning. Is is like a children learning a language. You don't send a children of 1 year to school.

 

 

No doubt, just pointing that Linux lost to Windows because it only arrived to a minimal competent visual interface recently say 3-5 years ago.

[Ivanhoe]

What's kind of ironic is that, for years, one of my gripes with GUI Linux is that system administration/customization utilities were scattered around the menu system.

 

Now, Windows 10 has some stuff in Control Panel, some stuff in Settings, some stuff in the All Programs menu. Going the wrong direction i.t.o. complexity.

[CT96]

Visual Interface and intuitive - which includes respecting existing conventions - is the most important thing today.

 

That is the thing that made and still makes Linux loose to Windows. The people that developed Linux does not grasp that common people have no problem taking a learning on an OS but the way that learning is done is crucial.

That learning is what can be called holistic, it is the interaction with OS that is the learning. Is is like a children learning a language. You don't send a children of 1 year to school.

As far as I see it, Mint is every bit as intuitive as win 7. At least compared to 8, 8.1 and 10.

 

I have set win users who didn't want to move to 10 up with Mint 18 (here'so the install cd, boot from CD and follow instructions) and they are happy with it. Much happier than with 10.

 

 

I know ithat is cliche, but the Linux Desktop really is here.

[Murph]

True, and the Leet Haxors did not want it to appeal to the masses since they wanted Linux/Unix/BSD to remain an exclusive club for computer geeks. Linux could have, and should have been where we are today, 5-10 years ago IMHO, and it was held by by short sighted hackers and unix geeks.

 

 

 

 

Waht do you mean? Mint 18 is more "windows" looking than any other I have used.

Visual Interface and intuitive - which includes respecting existing conventions - is the most important thing today.

 

That is the thing that made and still makes Linux loose to Windows. The people that developed Linux does not grasp that common people have no problem taking a learning on an OS but the way that learning is done is crucial.

That learning is what can be called holistic, it is the interaction with OS that is the learning. Is is like a children learning a language. You don't send a children of 1 year to school.

 

 

No doubt, just pointing that Linux lost to Windows because it only arrived to a minimal competent visual interface recently say 3-5 years ago.

 

[Murph]

I can't load it onto my desktop system. I tried via USB and DVD and no joy. I tried older versions, no joy. It will boot to the loading screen, and then the monitor turns off, and it just hangs. No idea. But my desktop system is old, I mean really old.

[Murph]

I am thinking of Mint 18 XFCE edition on Lupe's old HP G6 laptop with 3 gb of RAM, and adding a MX300 Crucial drive to it. I want to try XFCE.

[TTK Ciar]

Slackware ships with XFCE as an option, and it's traditionally very good with older hardware. You might want to give it a shot.

 

Slackware 14.1 and 14.2 are in many ways very similar, so if you run into hardware support problems with 14.2, give 14.1 a shot. I ended up doing something similar with 14.0 vs 14.1 (14.1's kernel had problems with an older laptop's builtin wifi, but 14.0 worked flawlessly).

[Murph]

I am nowhere ready for Slackware! The most difficult of the Distros, for gurus only. I am at the upper end of my competence with Mint.

Slackware ships with XFCE as an option, and it's traditionally very good with older hardware. You might want to give it a shot.

Slackware 14.1 and 14.2 are in many ways very similar, so if you run into hardware support problems with 14.2, give 14.1 a shot. I ended up doing something similar with 14.0 vs 14.1 (14.1's kernel had problems with an older laptop's builtin wifi, but 14.0 worked flawlessly).

[Murph]

I checked and with the SSD my specs are:

 

murph@Murphs-linux-machine ~ $ inxi -Fxz

System: Host: Murphs-linux-machine Kernel: 4.4.0-45-generic x86_64 (64 bit gcc: 5.4.0)

Desktop: Cinnamon 3.0.7 (Gtk 3.18.9-1ubuntu3.1)

Distro: Linux Mint 18 Sarah

Machine: System: HP (portable) product: HP Pavilion x360 m3 Convertible v: Type1ProductConfigId

Mobo: HP model: 81A7 v: 52.24 Bios: Insyde v: F.06 date: 07/07/2016

CPU: Dual core Intel Core i3-6100U (-HT-MCP-) cache: 3072 KB

flags: (lm nx sse sse2 sse3 sse4_1 sse4_2 ssse3 vmx) bmips: 9215

clock speeds: max: 2300 MHz 1: 499 MHz 2: 499 MHz 3: 766 MHz

4: 811 MHz

Graphics: Card: Intel Sky Lake Integrated Graphics bus-ID: 00:02.0

Display Server: X.Org 1.18.4 drivers: intel (unloaded: fbdev,vesa)

Resolution: 1366x768@60.06hz

GLX Renderer: Mesa DRI Intel HD Graphics 520 (Skylake GT2)

GLX Version: 3.0 Mesa 11.2.0 Direct Rendering: Yes

Audio: Card Intel Sunrise Point-LP HD Audio

driver: snd_hda_intel bus-ID: 00:1f.3

Sound: Advanced Linux Sound Architecture v: k4.4.0-45-generic

Network: Card: Intel Wireless 3165 driver: iwlwifi bus-ID: 01:00.0

IF: wlo1 state: up mac: <filter>

Drives: HDD Total Size: 275.1GB (35.6% used)

ID-1: /dev/sda model: Crucial_CT275MX3 size: 275.1GB

Partition: ID-1: / size: 64G used: 31G (51%) fs: ext4 dev: /dev/sda3

ID-2: swap-1 size: 68.72GB used: 0.00GB (0%) fs: swap dev: /dev/sda4

RAID: No RAID devices: /proc/mdstat, md_mod kernel module present

Sensors: System Temperatures: cpu: 34.0C mobo: 33.0C

Fan Speeds (in rpm): cpu: N/A

Info: Processes: 195 Uptime: 26 min Memory: 623.6/5855.9MB

Init: systemd runlevel: 5 Gcc sys: 5.4.0

Client: Shell (bash 4.3.421) inxi: 2.2.35

murph@Murphs-linux-machine ~ $

[CT96]

hmmm.... I started playing with slackware some 20+ years ago. I got stuff working, but I couldn't do what I needed to for school with it, and the dual-boot was just too expensive for me at the time.

 

Eventually moved to an OpenBSD firewall server, with my regular PCs behind that firewall; of course now I run Mint on my laptop, CentOS on my core server, a NAS, and I have lost count of how many adjacent systems..... but then, I'm not a poor starving college student, and this is the sort of thing I do for a living.

 

Even the word Slackware takes me back. I doubt they were even on the same release number system then that they are now (though I think it was 2).

[TTK Ciar]

hmmm.... I started playing with slackware some 20+ years ago. I got stuff working, but I couldn't do what I needed to for school with it, and the dual-boot was just too expensive for me at the time.

Wow, you were using Slackware before I was! My first was Slackware 3.0, from the CD that came in the back cover of "Linux Unleashed".

 

Even the word Slackware takes me back. I doubt they were even on the same release number system then that they are now (though I think it was 2).

Patrick is still using the same release numbering system, though he decided to skip version numbers 5 and 6 for silly marketing reasons. Slackware 4.0 was succeeded by Slackware 7.0.

 

 

Notwithstanding forays into Solaris, FreeBSD and RedHat (to play with my DEC Alpha Multia; there was no Alpha port for Slackware, but RedHat did) Slackware has been my preferred operating system since the 90's.

Edited October 26, 2016 by TTK Ciar

[Rickard N]

Has anyone installed LaTeX (texlive in my case) on Mint and got it working with some side packages? I was fiddling with it last week but it was quite cumbersome to get things installed. I don't know if it's Mint or something else (the user for example) that makes it hard but my memory is that it wasn't that much of a hassle last time I was doing these things. Fonts on the other hand was a major PITA.

 

/R

[Murph]

I am having to reinstall MInt since the people who installed the SSD, just copied and now I have 137 gb of free space that cannot be used, and if mounted shows as an external drive. Grrrrrr.