Active Shooter In Olympia Mall In Munich

[Marek Tucan]

Seems the security worked. 12 injured reportedly - if he got in and into the crowd, would be probably much worse (plus panic). In any case yhings seem to be heating up quickly in Germany...

This one was reportedly in DE for 2 years and he was visiting a psychiatrist. Come to think of it, if I was trying to online radicalize-push people into doing something like this, I probably would be searching for people with depressions or whatever... "Do you want your life to have meaning and for your suffering to be over?" etc...

 

 

As for the name of the Munich guy, do not forget initial ID may well have come from sources where he named himself - does not take much to find, say, FB profile by phone, looking for exact official ID might take some time if the suspect is dead and doesn't have it on himself.

[Marek Tucan]

Hm, seems the suiside bomber had, as usual, history with drug- and other "smaller offences" before pulling the big one.

[Stuart Galbraith]

This one I think people are right to be really concerned about. I dont imagine knocking up a nail-bomb is a particularly easy thing for people that have not had training of some description.

 

Meanwhile, the traffic is still backed up for miles in Southern Eastern England as the French institute new border checks to keep terrorists out. Continental Europe is awash with lone wolf or connected terrorists, and they are falling all over themselves to stop English based ones.

http://news.sky.com/story/uk-officials-to-help-ease-dover-disruption-10510992

[BansheeOne]

Now we're having fun. This seems like none of the previous blown-up (no pun intended) hysterics of "OMG there are unsavory characters among refugees, too, some even with a penchant for violence, Muslims are evil!!!!1111!!!" stories but a bonafide suicide attacker in a similar vein to the Orlando and Nice incidents. As noted, record of drugs and coercion, underwent psychiatric treatment over two previous suicide attempts; asylum application denied a year ago, was living here under "tolerated" status. Even though he came here two years ago, prior to last year's refugee wave, and nobody was actually killed, I expect this to have a bigger impact than Munich and Würzburg due to his status and the means used. Of course, copycatting effects from previous incidents apply.

 

I'm not actually saying that it's right but the name I use is my second name.

 

Same with me. Among the Banshees I'm the only one to do this, though the wife of brother #2 also refers to him by his second name.

 

I'm curious about this, too. Some sources are referring to him as Ali, some as David, and some as Ali David; one stated "David, who called himself Ali", which implies his personal usage was different from the family's, or even that he gave himself that name, but may be a lame attempt at squaring different narrations. Then again, one impression is of a lack of communication within the family itself; one source quoted his parents with "he may have possibly converted to Christianity" (this also establishes they're Shi'ites).

 

Meanwhile some more info is coming out on the shooting. Two of the dead are German, two dual German-Turkish citizens, and one each Turkish, Greek, Hungarian, Kosovar and stateless; but authorities think that despite his apparent hatred of Turks from earlier bullying incidents, the victims were random rather than carefully chosen. Number of injured has been raised to 35, of which ten severely. Most of those are not related to the shooting itself but to panic when rumors about other incidents popped up in other areas of the city. Saw a TV clip where people climbed out of a window of a downtown beer hall, probably resulting in broken glass, because the window was subsequently shown to be adorned by large blood stains.

Guy reportedly had an interest in shooting sprees for some time and last year travelled to a school in Winnenden, Baden-Württemberg, which was the site of one in 2009, to take pictures. Also was in stationary treatment for depressions for two months last year, and continued treatment up to a few weeks before the attack. Contrary to initial reports, Anders Breivik's manifesto was not found on his computer, but something of himself, which indicated he had been planning the act for a year. Seems he did not "hack" a Facebook account to post that invite to free meals at the McDonald's, but just create a fake account. A 16-year-old friend of his was detained yesterday over possibly having had knowledge of his actions, and making a similar post about meeting at a movie theater near Munich Central Station.

 

The Glock was apparently a reactivated stage gun with Slovakian proofmarks sourced via the darknet. This will probably give a boost to the current drive to tighten the EU firearms directive, which is aimed in part at establishing common strict standards for deactivations; some reactivated deacts were supposedly used in the recent Islamist attacks in France, like a vz. 58 at the kosher supermarket in Paris. Some people are naturally babbling about stricter gun laws again, including Interior Minister Lothar de Mazière who also talked more nonsense about violent video games.

 

Others plugged in their own pet projects, like domestic use of military forces; Defense Minister Ursula von der Leyen stated after events that a military police unit in Munich had been put on standby in case it was needed, which turned out to be not the case. The German constitution allows civilian authorities to seek help from the Bundeswehr in case of disasters or other situations requiring capabilities that can be provided by the military, though acts of public sovereignty like arrests can only be performed by the civilian side. The Constitutional Court clarified some time ago that this could encompass using military weapons in a terror situation. But of course what we have here is basically a school shooting divorced from a school.

[Markus Becker]

This seems like none of the previous blown-up (no pun intended) ... but a bonafide suicide attacker in a similar vein to the Orlando and Nice incidents.

 

 

 

To me there is no fundamental difference between Ansbach and Würzburg. In both cases terrorists have been using the means at their disposal. Just as recommened by the IS and other terrorist organisations. Different means but identical intentions.

 

With regard to the perp's name. Maybe he prefered to use his middle name but one can not rule out politically correct reporting to put it mildly.

[BansheeOne]

To me there is no fundamental difference between Ansbach and Würzburg. In both cases terrorists have been using the means at their disposal. Just as recommened by the IS and other terrorist organisations. Different means but identical intentions.

 

Certainly no fundamental difference - particularly as it's now being reported the guy was about to be deported to Bulgaria under the Dublin rules, since he entered the EU there, which may have made him snap. But blowing yourself up, attempting to take as many with you as possible, is the quintessential jihadi act. As mentioned earlier, people run amok with bladed weapons all the time. The only reason yesterday's machete attack made national news is that the guy was a Syrian asylum seeker; otherwise news tickers are full of unstable people who stab/slash their relationships and others who happen to get in their way, regardless of ethnicity.

[Markus Becker]

The only reason yesterday's machete attack made national news is that the guy was a Syrian asylum seeker; otherwise news tickers are full of unstable people who stab/slash their relationships and others who happen to get in their way, regardless of ethnicity.

 

 

IMO it was more his timing than his residency status. If this had happened a day before Würzburg it would have been regional news.

[Panzermann]

The how of a sucide bomber attack I would consider common knowledge by now. When someone wants to leave life with a literal big bang, claiming to do it for Allah would give it a "purpose" and "meaning" beyond mere hate of the world, oneself and everything.

[seahawk]

The only thing connecting Munich with this, is the mental health issues of the attackers.

[lucklucky]

Sure, sure"mental issue" the new media trick. I guess being immigrants from Arab(yeah i know one is Persian), Muslim World does not connect anything. Or does. Allahu Akbar...neither.

 

Neither someone killing a pregnant woman in broad daylight in public attacking other 2 or 3 people and more if not being runover by a guy in a car. I guess that should be regional news.

 

 

 

This how Reuters write the news: Syrian man denied asylum killed in German blast

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN105073?utm_campaign=trueAnthem:+Trending+Content&utm_content=5795a50504d301681dd6f2ca&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter

 

Unfortunate that the Syrian was hit by the German blast.... These Germans are indeed evil. They reject the guy asylum quest and even kill him after that in a blast.

 

Then we go to the text and have this: A 27-year-old Syrian man who had been denied asylum in Germany a year ago died on Sunday when a bomb he was carrying exploded outside a music festival in Ansbach.

 

A perfectly normal activity.

[Markus Becker]

Wow! That's the kind of headlines terrorism in Israel is getting: "Three killed in Jerusalem attack". Now we got it too.

[seahawk]

That is just a normal risk of life today. You are still way more likely to die from food poisoning or fall to your death cleaning your kitchen, than in such a desperate act of an ill man. In all those cases the attackers was the first victim.

 

There is no point in going through the whole process and wait with your attack until you are about to be sent back to Bulgaria, if you came to the country with the basic intention of blowing yourself up.

Edited July 25, 2016 by seahawk

[lucklucky]

Wow! That's the kind of headlines terrorism in Israel is getting: "Three killed in Jerusalem attack". Now we got it too.

 

No it is not read it again and see if you detect the difference.

[Markus Becker]

It presents the perp as the vic while the "Jerusalem attack" headlines merely lump together perps and vic? And the content of the article is absurd too. Even worse. He was just walking his bomb when it spontaneously exploded for a reason unknown.

[lucklucky]

Correct.That is my point.

[BansheeOne]

Sure, sure"mental issue" the new media trick. I guess being immigrants from Arab(yeah i know one is Persian), Muslim World does not connect anything. Or does. Allahu Akbar...neither.

 

Neither someone killing a pregnant woman in broad daylight in public attacking other 2 or 3 people and more if not being runover by a guy in a car. I guess that should be regional news.

 

A pregnancy of the victim has not been confirmed, though they seem to have been a couple and worked together at the kebab shop where he attacked her with a tool of the trade for some months (insert inappropriate "remove kebab" joke here). Woman reportedly a 45-year-old Pole, the five injured just happened into his way as he fled.

 

Mental issues and Islamism are of course not mutually exclusive (and some might argue that the latter is in fact one of the former). It has been suggested that the IS purposefully recruits those with such issues, though I would argue that in the recent cases where pledges of allegiance to the IS were made somewhat spontaneously like Orlando, Würzburg and now Ansbach, the perpetrators recruited themselves because the IS broadcast an excuse for and greater meaning to act out their issues.

 

That doesn't make Islamism any less dangerous, quite the opposite; you don't have to be a good Muslim (by all accounts, neither the guys from Nice, Würzburg or Ansbach were particularly devout) or a Muslim at all (the guy who stabbed four at Grafing station recently after apparently drugging himself into psychosis also talked about conversion to Islam, which he probably didn't - though of course it's as simple as reciting the shahada thrice) to take up that offer. And of course copycatting takes full effect, and acting out grudges in an attention-getting way tends to become inspiration all by itself, just like Columbine is still motivating school shooters today, almost certainly including the guy in Munich.

[seahawk]

The main point is that if you plan on doing something, pledging alliance to the IS will make it a bigger news item and therefore your death will be more "impressive".

[Fritz]

A pregnancy of the victim has not been confirmed, though they seem to have been a couple and worked together at the kebab shop where he attacked her with a tool of the trade for some months (insert inappropriate "remove kebab" joke here). Woman reportedly a 45-year-old Pole, the five injured just happened into his way as he fled.

 

 

Reverse remove kebab? Too soon, however.

[lucklucky]

There is some info that the Munich McDonalds shooter Ali Sonoboly meet with Afghan?Pakistani rail Ax attacker.

Edited July 25, 2016 by lucklucky

[BansheeOne]

No, he met with the previously-mentioned 16-year-old Afghan whom he knew from a stay in a psychiatric ward, allegedly shortly before the shooting. Both appear to have conversed about about acts of amok. The Afghan was detained yesterday after he made contradictory statements and it turned out he had deleted a WhatsApp conversation with the perpetrator from his cellphone, but was released today. He is investigated for possibly having known of the plans, but not as an accomplice in the shooting.

[lucklucky]

I got it from MSN Portugal it states that it was the Rail Ax attacker and Munich shooter meet not the other Afghan boy.

 

Here is the website in Portuguese: http://www.msn.com/pt-pt/noticias/mundo/conheciam-se-há-uma-ligação-entre-dois-dos-últimos-atos-de-terror-na-alemanha

[seahawk]

That is just wrong.

[Markus Becker]

The Würzburg terrorist was IS, meaning Sunni. The Munich shooter was a Shia bullied by Sunnis. Or they mean the Ansbach suicide bomber?

[lucklucky]

If it is wrong then thanks for correction.

 

Markus i don't think we should exclude some shia being ever attracted to IS.

 

The article says clearly the guy from Munich and the Ax attacker in the rail wagon but probably translated the info coming from Germany wrong.

[Markus Becker]

Unless I'm mistaken Sunnis consider Shias to be heretics, not even true Muslims. Right now in Iraq Shia militias are busy killing Sunnis in revenge for whatever the IS did to Shias.

 

I think the only way Ali David S. could have worked for the IS was by converting but in that case he'd not have shouted that he's German.