Active Shooter In Olympia Mall In Munich

[Mobius]

 

 

A spelling error can blow in the state attorney's/prosecutors face when they go to trial and the bad guy can walk because of a formality. Annoying, but I prefer these cases water tight.

 

meanwhile Berlin Police tweets cat content #forreasons

What's funny is many of these European countries have no-go zones where the national laws don't apply yet they are bound by their national laws in technicalities.

Shouldn't a no-go zone be law free for everyone? Just saying.

 

And then the authorities couldn't deport the guy because there was confusion over his ID so they just let him go. I don't think if there was confusion over an ID they would let the guy not pay his taxes. That is serious.

 

 

If they can't figure out where he's from, can't they just leave him in a rubber dinghy somewhere in international waters and let him sort it out himself?

 

Seriously though, this is why Australia has offshore processing for this sort of thing. The prospect of being let go somewhere in Papua New Guinea just isn't quite as appealing somehow.

 

Ther could do a DNA test on him. 23andMe and see where different parts of him should go. Or, German should talk to its former colony of Namibia and see if they can drop him off there. I wonder how Obama can release Gitmo prisoners to other countries but Germany can't get rid of people who rush their borders.

 

Hmm, come to think of it with all that space at Girmo maybe they can make a deal with Trump.

Edited December 22, 2016 by Mobius

[Adam_S]

Something else we do here in Aussieland is to pay other countries to take refugees rather than settle them here. They had a deal set up with Cambodia, for example, but weirdly nobody wanted to go there.

[Jeff]

Something else we do here in Aussieland is to pay other countries to take refugees rather than settle them here. They had a deal set up with Cambodia, for example, but weirdly nobody wanted to go there.

 

Apparently, the Obama administration has agreed to take some. Why? I haven't the foggiest idea. Well, I do, it's part of the fundamental transformation of America.

[BansheeOne]

Perpetrator reportedly killed in a shootout with police in Milano, Italy.

Edited December 23, 2016 by BansheeOne

[Ssnake]

Mille grazie, Italia!

[BansheeOne]

Well, they let him go in the first place, so it's just proper they finished the job. Though as always I would have preferred a living perpetrator to be interrogated. Funny thing, I was just in the S-Bahn when a guy read the news from his smartphone to bis daughter. The little girl protested quite reasonably "but it's too early for him yet!"

 

Police are also investigating a possibility that he was responsible for the aforementioned Hamburg stabbing the IS claimed some time ago, but not based upon more than a superficial resemblance with the phantom sketch in that case.

Edited December 23, 2016 by BansheeOne

[Markus Becker]

Nice Xmas present. Well done.

[BansheeOne]

Identity of the dead perpetrator is reportedly confirmed by fingerprints. He had come via Chambéry, France and Turin by train, arriving in Milan at 0100, where he was approached by police in what seems to have been a routine check ca. 0300. Apparently shouted "Allah-u akbar", pulled out a .22 pistol (this matches the Polish truck driver being shot by a "small-bore gun", and Italian media report it's the same weapon) and wounded one officer in the shoulder; the other, a 29-year-old proby, shot and killed him.

 

Meanwhile nationalities of the victims are being reported; eight Germans, one Italian and Israeli (mentioned to be missing earlier) as well as a Czech woman each, plus the Polish driver. Citizens from Finland, Hungary, Israel, Lebanon, Spain and the UK among the injured, twelve of which remain in critical condition at last count. It's being pointed out that except for the driver who was shot (and also stabbed by some reports), none of the victims or their kin might be eligible for public compensation under the relevant law for the compensation of violent crime victims, which explicitely excludes attacks by motor vehicles. I'm not sure whether this is because such damages are already covered by mandatory vehicle insurance; if not, I can see this being rectified post haste.

[Panzermann]

I think the motor vehicle insurance should cover this. But it was a polish lorry with polish registration and assuming polish insurance. insurance companies being what they are, they are going to fight tooth and nail not to pay.

 

 

 

What did he want in Italy? Sail back to Tunisia? Join the promised land that is daesh? And how did he

cross france? You know, the country that is in perpetual state of emergency because of terrorism. A terrorist with an international warrant and all.

Edited December 23, 2016 by Panzermann

[CT96]

Have they released names of the victims yet? I have a couple Berliner friends as yet unaccounted for (I'll hear eventually either way, but...).

[Mikel2]

But it was a polish lorry with polish registration and assuming polish insurance. insurance companies being what they are, they are going to fight tooth and nail not to pay.

 

 

Surely it's only Polish insurance companies that do that

[Panzermann]

You cannot make this up.

 

RBB (radio berlin brandenburg) reports that after the deed the suspect went to a mosque in Perleberger Straße. Called "ISIS mosque" in phone surveillance protocols of the mosque members. ISIS centre of Berlin. But still not closed down and the leaders deported or locked away.

 

Amri went there before and after the attack and was filmed on cctv both times. Great. Very useful all this cctv.

edit: it was someone else

 

http://www.rbb-online.de/politik/beitrag/2016/12/tatverdaechtiger-anis-amri-wurde-vor-und-nach-dem-anschlag-in-be.html

 

 

Where in Perleberger is the mosque? Just opposite of a police precinct. Polizeidirektion 3, Abschnitt 33 to be exact

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@52.5335162,13.3525953,3a,75y,319.81h,93.32t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s-Iy5VPGXqZl1gfdm18u80g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@52.5335162,13.3525953,3a,75y,142.15h,99.39t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s-Iy5VPGXqZl1gfdm18u80g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

https://www.berlin.de/polizei/dienststellen/polizei-in-den-bezirken/direktion-3/abschnitt-33/

 

 

So the (suspected) terrorist goes to his mosque twice on the day of the attack right in front of the police. You cannot make this up.

 

edit: Looks like it wasnt the dead suspect in the video.

Edited December 23, 2016 by Panzermann

[Panzermann]

 

 

But it was a polish lorry with polish registration and assuming polish insurance. insurance companies being what they are, they are going to fight tooth and nail not to pay.

 

Surely it's only Polish insurance companies that do that

Oh sorry, that is not what I meant. Any insurance company does this, but cross border makes it extra complicated.

 

Insurance companies only want your best. Your money.

[BansheeOne]

Have they released names of the victims yet? I have a couple Berliner friends as yet unaccounted for (I'll hear eventually either way, but...).

 

Full names of crime victims are generally not released to the public under German privacy laws.

 

You cannot make this up.

 

RBB (radio berlin brandenburg) reports that after the deed the suspect went to a mosque in Perleberger Straße. Called "ISIS mosque" in phone surveillance protocols of the mosque members. ISIS centre of Berlin. But still not closed down and the leaders deported or locked away.

 

Amri went there before and after the attack and was filmed on cctv both times. Great. Very useful all this cctv.

 

http://www.rbb-online.de/politik/beitrag/2016/12/tatverdaechtiger-anis-amri-wurde-vor-und-nach-dem-anschlag-in-be.html

 

 

Where in Perleberger is the mosque? Just opposite of a police precinct. Polizeidirektion 3, Abschnitt 33 to be exact

 

https:<script data-cfhash='f9e31' type="text/javascript">/* */</script>,13.3525953,3a,75y,319.81h,93.32t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s-Iy5VPGXqZl1gfdm18u80g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

https:,13.3525953,3a,75y,142.15h,99.39t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s-Iy5VPGXqZl1gfdm18u80g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

https://www.berlin.de/polizei/dienststellen/polizei-in-den-bezirken/direktion-3/abschnitt-33/

 

 

So the (suspected) terrorist goes to his mosque twice on the day of the attack right in front of the police. You cannot make this up.

 

The head of the Berlin State Office of Criminal Investigations has stated that the person in the images is not Amri. Though the mosque was raided by police yesterday in the morning.

[Daan]

ISIS news agency, Amaq, released a video with Amri's last statement: http://sendvid.com/o4iy9rpz (In Arab) He stated that he wanted to punish pork eaters and the countries responsible for air strikes on muslims.

Edited December 23, 2016 by Daan

[Ssnake]

Though as always I would have preferred a living perpetrator to be interrogated.

 

Absolutely, but when a guy pulls a gun out rather than his papers, I'm not second-guessing the police if they shoot him dead. I suppose we all agree on that (except maybe Renate Künast).

[DB]

Apparently one Italian officer was injured - shot in the shoulder.

 

Whilst it's not an automatic death sentence to shoot a policeman, it shortens the odds considerably. I'm not wasting any tears.

[mnm]

ISIS news agency, Amaq, released a video with Amri's last statement: http://sendvid.com/o4iy9rpz (In Arab) He stated that he wanted to punish pork eaters and the countries responsible for air strikes on muslims.

He said pork, not bacon so we're safe. In any case Allahu Akhbar to him.

[Panzermann]

Just bought a few slices of bacon for the xmas roast today.

 

---

 

 

 

The head of the Berlin State Office of Criminal Investigations has stated that the person in the images is not Amri. Though the mosque was raided by police yesterday in the morning.

Noted and corrected in the post.

 

Still bad enough that such a mosque is opposite a police precinct and not closed.

[mnm]

Am I right? Was he caught by a fluke? That's terrible but I never look a gift bacon slice in the mouth.

[Marek Tucan]

Well, Random checks usually are not that random. It was luck, but won't call it "fluke"

[Panzermann]

Moroccan secret services have warned german BND of Amri in Septembre and Octobre.

 

http://mondafrique.com/attentat-de-berlin-marocains-avaient-prevenu-bnd-allemand/

[JWB]

In the end the problem is the same anywhere in the world. Migrants will dodge authorities to get into a country; the state needs to go through authorities to get them back home. If the home country doesn't play, outside of wank fantasies about airdropping them etc. you're SOL. Sure you can apply pressure, and a major step last year was getting all the Balkan states to accept German-issued lassez-faire papers. In theory there are now agreements with all the Maghreb states and most recently Afghanistan to improve proceedings, too, but as the present case shows, practice remains something different.

 

As always, "pressure" is also much more easily exerted at the pub table than in reality. There was a lot of talk about curtailing development aid to get the Maghrebinians in line earlier this year. Of course as others pointed out, this might in turn lead to more migrants leaving their underdeveloped home countries. Of the three Maghreb states, Algeria also gets a miniscule amount of German aid; Tunisia OTOH is tried to be propped up as a model post-Arab Spring democracy and beacon against Islamism. You abandon that to improve them taking back their own, you better have a draft explanation ready when they turn back into another crisis hotspot and the flow of migrants increases once more as a result. For nations who have an interest in exporting their poor and unemployed and whose expats actually contribute a considerable share of theit GDP via money sent back home, it might be more gainful to say "keep your money, we'll just send you some more mouths we can't feed to work in your shadow economy and make up for it".

 

The Italians certainly had the same problem with this guy as it turns out now. Left home in 2010, apparently after getting in trouble with the law over drugs and stealing a truck (so this seems to be a bit of a habit). Came to Italy in early 2011, claiming to be two years younger, and promptly got more trouble for theft, battery, arson; four years in the clink, after which the Italians tried to deport him in May 2015, but Tunisia wouldn't take him, probably on the usual "no papers? How would we know he's ours?" Neither seem the Italians to have looked too hard when he went north instead, another familiar story of northern EU members pretending cross-mediterranean migration to be the shore nations' problem under the Dublin Agreements, and the latter pretending right back; they say they entered his criminal information into the Schengen system when telling him to leave the country, but he just went to Germany.

 

Entered via Freiburg in July 2015 and promptly developed multiple personalities to successively apply for asylum and support in different places. The last seems to have been a politically persecuted Egyptian in April this year, which was rejected rather quickly by the standards of the still-overworked system in June, because he knew shit-all about Egypt. In theory this is no longer possible by now because a new central database linked to unitary ID was established this year, without which there will be no support, but I'm not sure if this covers previous arrivals, too, and how foolproof the system is. Not all German states enact the duty to reside in a limited area still, either, and even as far as restrictions on mobility for newcomers exist, they are hard to enforce in a free country.

 

The most embarrassing point of course is that this was not the much-feared bolt out of the blue, but the guy was marked as having possible IS links as early as February for getting in touch with known Salafists, was under investigation for allegedly planning a burglary to acquire assault weapons from French comrades with the proceeds and recruit fellow faithful for an attack from March, had a "report on sight, check thoroughly" note out and was under surveillance, including electronic, at one point possibly offering himself as a suicide bomber, although too circumspectly to use against him legally. At one recent point worked as a petty drug pusher in the scene of Görlitzer Park here in Berlin. He was even listed as one of 550 "endangerers" in Germany thought to present an actual threat, though not a key member of the network he moved in. Relatives claim he was radicalized in Italian prison. Sometime after late September, he apparently dropped off the screen.

 

In fact German authorities only requested Tunisian replacement documents after he was found with forged Italian documents on a bus in late July and released after a total of two days in custody; because again, "no papers? Not ours." The documents found in the truck were for one of his five alternate identities, also Tunisian; but they were only found on Tuesday afternoon because police were holding off with a search until mantrailer dogs could be brought in to take the scent of the perpetrator. Good thinking in theory, but I think this happened only after they found they had gotten the wrong guy first (based upon a vague description by a witness, and detained when he walked over a red pedestrian light and couldn't produce an ID). He was also linked to the truck by fingerprints, so the documents are probably not a false lead; if they were placed on purpose, it was probably for the intentional political impact of showcasing a migrant as the perpetrator, as noted before.

 

A weird detail is that Lutz Bachmann, the leader of the anti-immigration PEGIDA movement, tweeted just two hours after the attack that he had information from Berlin police that the perpetrator was a Tunisian. Bachmann has bragged about getting police insider information before, but per the official timeline the ID hadn't even be found at this time. Berlin police categorically ruled out that any such information could have been passed, and Bachmann has since backpedalled, saying he only used his "crystal ball".

Some more info about why they aren't so easily deported:

https://www.strategypage.com/qnd/algeria/20161223.aspx

[Markus Becker]

As always, "pressure" is also much more easily exerted at the pub table than in reality. There was a lot of talk about curtailing development aid to get the Maghrebinians in line earlier this year. Of course as others pointed out, this might in turn lead to more migrants leaving their underdeveloped home countries.

 

 

They come here because they know that's where the welfare state is and where the prisons and deportations aren't.

 

 

Of the three Maghreb states, Algeria also gets a miniscule amount of German aid; Tunisia OTOH is tried to be propped up as a model post-Arab Spring democracy and beacon against Islamism.

 

 

And that is a good reason to let their criminals roam free here? Edit: Why not extend custody to secure deportation indefinitely for convicted criminals?

 

 

This whole mess was created by a lack of will to do anything about it, anything but spend God knows how many billions to house and feed these unwanted guests. And on the radio is sounded like that's going to continue. CDU, SPD and Greens blame each other, the feds blame the states and of course law enforcement has failed. The same law enforcement that's understaffed, underfounded, often attacked and rarely backed by politicians.

Edited December 24, 2016 by Markus Becker

[Markus Becker]

The federal government wanted to make some tiny cuts -10% but only for some- and the states promptly vetoed it:

 

https://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article160350501/Kuerzungen-fuer-Asylbewerber-scheitern-im-Bundesrat.html