Troubles In Turkey

[EchoFiveMike]

Islam gets another pass. S/F....Ken M

[Corinthian]

 

RUMINT has it that many of the incarcerated officers commit suicide.

 

 

 

Assisted suicide perhaps.... Ya know, someone who ties the officer's hands and feet, puts the noose around his neck, and kicks out the chair under him. Surely he can't do all of that while he is bound and gagged....

[Simon Tan]

Democratically elected dictator please. The ideal for many of the progressive ilk.

[Panzermann]

With reveresed roles Gülen would do exactly the same to secure his power. Erdogan sees Gülen as a threat, as competition for power. Makes sense he cracks down possible oppostion and the rests of the old military and state elites. Has Erdogan read a Stalin bio?

[seahawk]

He does what the people want.

[Panzermann]

He does what the people want.

What the leader worshipping mob wants.

 

When you have dealt with Turkish people in Germany, many cannot discuss. They take everything as a personal attack. Trukey is not ready for democracy. Not surprising, considering that Atatürk fast forwarded a basically feudal society into a 20th century nation state by force. This left many people behind with their traditional attitudes.

 

There are other people with different opinions in Turkey, but they are being silenced now.

Edited August 4, 2016 by Panzermann

[seahawk]

Let us say, he is about to take the state back to a status that better fits the society. So far the Turkish state was pushing the modernisation of the society by enforcing laws aimed at achieving this, now this has stopped.

[BansheeOne]

So where is an outcry over dictator?

 

I'm not quite sure what disparity exactly you're implying, but I'm hearing a rather loud outcry.

[Simon Tan]

You do not outcry Islamic NATO member, only bad Slavs.

[Panzermann]

 

 

So where is an outcry over dictator?

I'm not quite sure what disparity exactly you're implying, but I'm hearing a rather loud outcry.

There hasn't been done anything to turkey as was to Serbia in the nineties. But then Yugoslavia/Serbia wasn't a NATO member, which makes measures against Turkey rather delicate. And Erdogan has Merkel caught with the refugees. Lots of talk, but not much action.

[Cinaruco]

I wonder how regretful the soldiers that surrendered, while still holding their weapons and even tanks, feel now that the Sultan has been allowed to ascend.

[BansheeOne]

There hasn't been done anything to turkey as was to Serbia in the nineties. But then Yugoslavia/Serbia wasn't a NATO member, which makes measures against Turkey rather delicate. And Erdogan has Merkel caught with the refugees. Lots of talk, but not much action.

 

The question was for outcries of "dictator". But if we're talking of action, what happened to Milosevic three weeks after Serbia changed their constitution about Kosovo, or after his Kosovo Field speech, or after the proclamation of the Autonomous Serb Province Krajina? The first action that actually happened was the UN arms embargo in September 1991, seven months and several thousand dead into the Yugoslavian Wars.

 

In reality, treatment of Erdogan so far has been the same as for anybody else with whom the West has moderately relevant relations (not talking North Korea or Syria here) - government figures utter "concern" while stressing the need for dialogue and partnership (same with Milosevic, as complained about by the Serbian opposition of the day, or for that matter Putin, as complained about by the Poles and Balts); second-line figures not in actual government responsibility are more vocal about "moving towards dictatorship" etc. Locally, the only glaring inconsistency I can see is from the Left Party which has been denouncing Erdogan as a bloody-minded dictator for a long time, while Gregor Gysi paid ostentative solidarity visits to both Milosevic and Putin in the past.

 

I actually agree NATO membership is going to inhibit actual action if it should be necessary down the road, but Erdogan is not the first strongman the West has struck convenient deals with; Gaddafi's gatekeeper function versus African migrants springs to mind, until some bright minds came up with the idea to get rid of him. However, it is the nature of deals that both sides get something out of it, and the noises coming out of Ankara about the refugee deal are seen rather relaxed round here (also, as somebody pointed out "you just voided 70,000 passports to prevent possible opposition figures from leaving Turkey, and then go back to demanding visa-free travel?").

[Simon Tan]

Perhaps Germany will take all the Gulenistas?

[bojan]

n/t

Edited August 5, 2016 by bojan

[Mikel2]

I wonder how regretful the soldiers that surrendered, while still holding their weapons and even tanks, feel now that the Sultan has been allowed to ascend.

It's hard to do a coup when the other side has substantial support without going full Pinochet.

[Panzermann]

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/court-issues-warrant-against-gulen-for-ordering-july-15-coup-attempt.aspx?pageID=238&nID=102485&NewsCatID=509

 

 

Hasnt Erdogan been demanding the extradition since all this started? And just now an arrest warrant is issued?

 

 

The ruling said Gülen organization, which infiltrated the Turkish Armed Forces (TSK) in major cities like Istanbul and Ankara, aimed to take over all the states institutions and security bodies by changing the constitution. It also clearly asserted that the organization, which aimed to become a large and effective political and economic power at the international level, carried out the coup attempt with a group of allegiant soldiers and meanwhile committed multiple crimes.

Hm same could be said about a certain turkish president...

Edited August 7, 2016 by Panzermann

[BansheeOne]

World | Tue Aug 9, 2016 8:51pm EDT

Exclusive: Turkish military officer seeking asylum in United States - U.S. officials

WASHINGTON | BY PHIL STEWART AND YARA BAYOUMY

A Turkish military officer on a U.S.-based assignment for NATO is seeking asylum in the United States after being recalled by the Turkish government in the wake of last month's failed military coup, U.S. officials told Reuters.

The asylum bid is the first known case involving a Turkish military officer in the United States as Turkey purges military ranks after mutinous soldiers commandeered fighter jets, helicopters and tanks in an unsuccessful attempt to oust President Tayyip Erdogan.

The case has the potential to further strain ties between the United States and Turkey, which is already demanding Washington hand over a U.S.-based Turkish cleric it alleges was responsible for the failed coup.

The two U.S. officials, who spoke to Reuters on condition of anonymity, said the Turkish officer was working at the headquarters of NATO's Allied Command Transformation, located in Norfolk, Virginia. They did not name him or offer his rank.

However, an official at Turkey's embassy in Washington said Turkish Navy Rear Admiral Mustafa Ugurlu had failed to report to authorities after Turkey issued a detention order for him last month.

"On July 22, on that day he left his badges and his ID at the base and after that no one has heard anything from him," the official said, also speaking on condition of anonymity.

The Turkish official said he was unaware of a subsequent asylum request. An April news article on the NATO website identified Ugurlu as the Norfolk-based command's assistant chief of staff for command and control, deployability and sustainability.

The Turkish official said two other lower-level officers had also been called back from the United States to Turkey.

"But there's no detention order for them," the official said. "One of them has gone back, and the other will go back shortly."

MILITARY PURGES

The purges within Turkey's military, which has NATO's second largest armed forces and aspires to membership in the European Union, has resulted in thousands of soldiers being discharged, including around 40 percent of generals.

There are concerns within the Turkish opposition that the restructuring lacks parliamentary oversight and is going too far.

Pentagon spokesman Captain Jeff Davis declined comment, referring questions about Turkish military personnel to Turkey.

The Norfolk mission where the Turkish officer was assigned is the only NATO command in North America, according to its website. It directs Allied Command Transformation's subordinate commands, including the Joint Warfare Center in Norway and the Joint Force Training Center in Poland.

A spokeswoman at the Norfolk-based mission said 26 Turkish military personnel were assigned there, and she praised Turkey's contribution, including hosting U.S. and allies at its Incirlik Air Base, an important staging area for the U.S.-led fight against Islamic State militants in Syria.

"We want to state that Turkey is a valued NATO ally that continues to make important contributions to the fight against ISIL," U.S. Navy Lieutenant Commander Karen Eifert said, declining comment on questions about an asylum request. ISIL is an acronym for Islamic State.

A NATO official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said Turkey's internal reorganization of its military has not had a practical impact on NATO-led commands.

"Turkey has notified NATO about the changeover of a number of Turkish military personnel. There has been no impact on the implementation of NATO-led operations and missions or on the work of NATO commands," the official said, declining comment on any asylum request.

"I would refer you to the Turkish authorities for any further details on their staffing."

U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services said it could not discuss individual cases, including whether an individual has requested a specific immigration benefit like asylum.

The State Department declined comment.

ANTI-U.S. SENTIMENT RISING

The case comes as Turkey presses Washington to hand over U.S.-based cleric Fethullah Gulen.

Gulen, an ally of Erdogan in the early years after his Islamist-rooted AK Party took power in 2002, has denied any involvement in the coup, which came at a critical time for a NATO state facing Islamist militant attacks from across the border in Syria and an insurgency by Kurdish rebels.

Justice Minister Bekir Bozdag said anti-American feeling among Turks was on the rise and "turning into hatred" and could only be calmed by the United States extraditing Gulen.

Still, the U.S. and Turkish militaries have long had extensive ties, extending beyond the NATO alliance.

One U.S. defense official, speaking on condition of anonymity, estimated there were around 160 Turkish military personnel on assignment in the United States, including those at NATO in Norfolk and others at exchanges at prestigious U.S. military institutions.

Navy Lieutenant Commander Patrick Evans said 123 Turkish military personnel were participating in the U.S. International Military Education and Training Program in the continental United States as of Aug. 9.

Asked how many of those participants had been recalled to Turkey, Evans said: "We are aware of one student currently at the Army War College who received a recall notice to return to Turkey."

The status of the student at the War College, located in Carlisle, Pennsylvania, was not immediately clear. Evans did not comment on any individual cases.

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-turkey-asylum-exclusive-idUSKCN10L03U

[seahawk]

As he is either a terrorist (if he supports the coup) or a deserter, he should be handed over to the Tuirkish authorities asap.

[Simon Tan]

Hizmet was the interlocutor between AKP, Gulf Money and US 'parallel state' built around the Clinton DoS. The gulf money bankrolled not only the Arab Spring but other US backed operations without having to receive domestic funding and accountability issues. Hizmet provided the chanbels for the various parties to interact at arms length. USG flies top cover for the illicit arms pipeline originally from Libya and now from Europe to Team Sunni's bashi bazouks. Sultan was convinced he was driving the bus but I believe he was pkayed via his old comrade and successor Ahmed Devatoglu.

[Cinaruco]

 

I wonder how regretful the soldiers that surrendered, while still holding their weapons and even tanks, feel now that the Sultan has been allowed to ascend.

It's hard to do a coup when the other side has substantial support without going full Pinochet.

 

I would approve.

[Mikel2]

Looks like Turkey's prisons are being emptied to make room for the tens of thousands of plotters...

[lucklucky]

As he is either a terrorist (if he supports the coup) or a deserter, he should be handed over to the Tuirkish authorities asap.

Ah so a coup supporter is a terrorist by default?

 

The question with Turkey is between Sufi outlook(Gulen) and Muslim Brotherhood(Erdogan)

[WRW]

We had a suicide bomb attack at a wedding in Gaziantep yesterday 50 p;us killed - poor district open wedding. Seems to be ISIS. So much for US state depratment assurances that they are being beaten

[Simon Tan]

Where does FETO end and DAESH begin? I don't think it is possible to determine any hard lines. The whole jihadi structure is an amorphous mass and I don't see any easy way to excise it from Turkey without great procscription. Sultan's choices have all come home to roost together. The Turkish Army and scurity forces will have to disarm and break all these covert structures and they are unlikely to go quietly into the night. Many of these persons will be AKP.

[Markus Becker]

We had a suicide bomb attack at a wedding in Gaziantep yesterday 50 p;us killed - poor district open wedding. Seems to be ISIS. So much for US state depratment assurances that they are being beaten

The victims are Kurds. I won't rule out that the Erdogan regime looked the other way. From their perspective both are enemies.