Tim the Tank Nut Posted December 6, 2021 Share Posted December 6, 2021 isn't that in France? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Galbraith Posted December 7, 2021 Share Posted December 7, 2021 10 hours ago, Tim the Tank Nut said: isn't that in France? Yes, but they should have claimed copyright. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brest,_Belarus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted December 7, 2021 Share Posted December 7, 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Galbraith Posted December 7, 2021 Share Posted December 7, 2021 Are they talking about taking Gotland? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BansheeOne Posted April 23, 2022 Share Posted April 23, 2022 Quote Date 22.04.2022 Germany's Baerbock calls for stronger NATO strategy in Baltics The German foreign minister has wrapped up a Baltic tour in Lithuania saying Germany is ready to send more troops to the region to deter Russian aggression, calling the current response level concerning. German Foreign Minister Annalena Baerbock on Friday said Germany was open to sending more troops to NATO's eastern flank, if the alliance agreed to this at a summer summit in Madrid. As the foreign minister wrapped up an official visit to the three Baltic states with an appearance in Vilnius, she and her Lithuanian counterpart, Gabrielius Landsbergis, said NATO must be able to immediately and comprehensively repel any potential attack on the Baltic states. "If NATO decides to increase its presence to brigade strength, then we in the Federal Republic of Germany will be in favor of making a substantial contribution," Baerbock said. "I have understood here that this is necessary," she said, adding that Germany will be ready to take a leading role. Under the current NATO scenario, Baltic states risk being overrun before being liberated, Baerbock said. After civilian massacres in Bucha and Mariupol, this policy was no longer acceptable, she added. Landsbergis also called for more armored vehicles, air defense, sea defenses, and the securing of ports and infrastructure in the region. Baerbock tells troops 'it is an important signal that we are here' Later in the day, Baerbock traveled to Rukla, where NATO's German-led Enhanced Forward Presence (EFP) battle group in Lithuania is stationed. The foreign minister first met with the battalion's commander, Lieutenant Colonel Daniel Andrä, who updated her on the mission as well as familiarizing her with the newly positioned Ozelot (Ocelot) short-range air defense system (SHORAD). Later she greeted roughly 1,000 German soldiers stationed there, thanking them for their service, saying, "It is an important signal that we are here and that we are here as a multi-national force, even though that brings not only linguistic but also technical difficulties." Baerbock praised the speed and professionalism with which German and NATO forces have met the challenge of very quickly shifting troops and materiel to bolster the alliance's presence in Lithuania, saying it is impressive enough to do so in a few weeks, but that this current challenge had been met within five days' time. [...] https://www.dw.com/en/germanys-baerbock-calls-for-stronger-nato-strategy-in-baltics/a-61557467 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inhapi Posted May 5, 2022 Share Posted May 5, 2022 On 1/23/2021 at 1:25 PM, Lesley said: 😜history repeats itself, Germany and the Netherlands against the red hordes in the Baltic states...... I didn't know, but there are even (not an offical Dutch goverment monument!!) monuments in the baltics in memory of the missing, killed or killed as POW soldiers, nurses and helpers. WTF ? where is that ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bd1 Posted May 5, 2022 Share Posted May 5, 2022 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Tannenberg_Line Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lesley Posted May 29, 2022 Share Posted May 29, 2022 On 5/5/2022 at 1:13 PM, Inhapi said: WTF ? where is that ? Grenadiershohe, Blue Mountains as in the link of Bd1. Below the text (translated with Google) who erected the monument and why; Een gedenkteken voor Nederlandse Oostfrontstrijders | Historiek Through the Werkgroep Herkenning – the foundation that represents the interests of (grand)children of 'wrong' Dutch people, the so-called political delinquents – I got in touch with one of the initiators, with a view to the book I was writing. of the memorial stone at Narva. A man now 88 years old. Not an Eastern Front fighter, not a supporter of the fascist ideas, but someone who still fears injustice to former political opponents. His parents were members of the NSB. He himself was a member of the Jeugdstorm, the youth movement of the NSB. He still remembers the propaganda marches through The Hague, behind the WA, to impress the inhabitants of The Hague. He does not remember whether there was singing (The banner was high! The rows were tightly closed!). Other family members were also supporters of the NSB. One volunteered to take part in the battle in the east and was killed, a young girl was killed in the shelling of the train in which she fled – September ’44, Mad Tuesday – to the north. After the war, he was 15 years old and was arrested and placed in a children's home. When he was released, he was not allowed to study: NSB children were not allowed to study. And when his parents were released from internment (minor cases), the funds were missing. He went to Indonesia, after the transfer of sovereignty, and later studied languages in Utrecht. A developed person. What moved him to participate in this initiative to erect this memorial? He himself writes: This small monument turns out to be not only a memorial stone for the fallen Dutch Eastern Front fighters, but also a place for relatives to commemorate their loved ones. As such, it functions modestly." Forgotten people should also be able to be remembered. Of course, the injustices committed against the NSB and their children after the war will also have played a role – he has published some articles about it, articles based on research, on evidence. The unequal treatment will also have had an influence. At the inauguration of this memorial stone in the far north of Estonia in 2007, the Dutch flag covered the stone, the red, white and blue. And not the orange, white, blue of the NSB, the so-called Prinsenvlag. And on the stone is deliberately engraved: the front soldiers, the nurses, the helpers. In short, not only the SS or the Eastern Front fighters, but 'all those who had done their duty in Eastern Europe'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inhapi Posted May 29, 2022 Share Posted May 29, 2022 (edited) 9 hours ago, Lesley said: Grenadiershohe, Blue Mountains as in the link of Bd1. Below the text (translated with Google) who erected the monument and why; Een gedenkteken voor Nederlandse Oostfrontstrijders | Historiek Through the Werkgroep Herkenning – the foundation that represents the interests of (grand)children of 'wrong' Dutch people, the so-called political delinquents – I got in touch with one of the initiators, with a view to the book I was writing. of the memorial stone at Narva. A man now 88 years old. Not an Eastern Front fighter, not a supporter of the fascist ideas, but someone who still fears injustice to former political opponents. His parents were members of the NSB. He himself was a member of the Jeugdstorm, the youth movement of the NSB. He still remembers the propaganda marches through The Hague, behind the WA, to impress the inhabitants of The Hague. He does not remember whether there was singing (The banner was high! The rows were tightly closed!). Other family members were also supporters of the NSB. One volunteered to take part in the battle in the east and was killed, a young girl was killed in the shelling of the train in which she fled – September ’44, Mad Tuesday – to the north. After the war, he was 15 years old and was arrested and placed in a children's home. When he was released, he was not allowed to study: NSB children were not allowed to study. And when his parents were released from internment (minor cases), the funds were missing. He went to Indonesia, after the transfer of sovereignty, and later studied languages in Utrecht. A developed person. What moved him to participate in this initiative to erect this memorial? He himself writes: This small monument turns out to be not only a memorial stone for the fallen Dutch Eastern Front fighters, but also a place for relatives to commemorate their loved ones. As such, it functions modestly." Forgotten people should also be able to be remembered. Of course, the injustices committed against the NSB and their children after the war will also have played a role – he has published some articles about it, articles based on research, on evidence. The unequal treatment will also have had an influence. At the inauguration of this memorial stone in the far north of Estonia in 2007, the Dutch flag covered the stone, the red, white and blue. And not the orange, white, blue of the NSB, the so-called Prinsenvlag. And on the stone is deliberately engraved: the front soldiers, the nurses, the helpers. In short, not only the SS or the Eastern Front fighters, but 'all those who had done their duty in Eastern Europe'. All of this might be true and ofc children should not suffer for what their parents did, but i find the wording : "Who during the second world war (1941 -1945) loyally did their duty in eastern Europe"....... Sorry: "duty": this implies to me that there was nothing wrong with Fighting for the Germans on the easern front.... They might have been taken in by propaganda, might have ben misled to do it, or just plainly wanted to fight for the Nazi's, for all of which one can consider forgiviness.... but "doing their duty" "loyally" to the Nazi's I guess.....is a bit of a (very long) stretch IMHO and says more about the purpose of the monument than all the other explanations you gave here. I just don't get it.... we can agree that the easern front fighters did something horribly wrong and their relatives might have been verly punished later, but putting up a momunment saying that those relatives "loyally did their duty" ... what are they thinking ? Did he explain to you what their loyal duty excactly was ? Edited May 29, 2022 by Inhapi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bd1 Posted May 30, 2022 Share Posted May 30, 2022 well, at least their resistance allowed tens of thousands balts to escape to west, estim. 60-80000 in estonia alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lesley Posted May 30, 2022 Share Posted May 30, 2022 23 hours ago, Inhapi said: All of this might be true and ofc children should not suffer for what their parents did, but i find the wording : "Who during the second world war (1941 -1945) loyally did their duty in eastern Europe"....... Sorry: "duty": this implies to me that there was nothing wrong with Fighting for the Germans on the easern front.... says more about the purpose of the monument than all the other explanations you gave here. Did he explain to you what their loyal duty excactly was ? Let me get this straight, I gave NO WHATEVER explanation about the behaviour of those people. I COPIED text from a site (see link) who had an interview with the man who payed for this monument. It represents in no way my political beliefs, personal opinion or gives an explanation of my opinion. And no, I didn't talk to those people so nobody explained to me what there ''loyal duty'' was. Sincerely, Lesley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lesley Posted May 30, 2022 Share Posted May 30, 2022 15 hours ago, bd1 said: well, at least their resistance allowed tens of thousands balts to escape to west, estim. 60-80000 in estonia alone. Thats a lot, didn't know that. It is a part of the Dutch history which is rather unknown by the people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inhapi Posted May 30, 2022 Share Posted May 30, 2022 13 minutes ago, Lesley said: Let me get this straight, I gave NO WHATEVER explanation about the behaviour of those people. I COPIED text from a site (see link) who had an interview with the man who payed for this monument. It represents in no way my political beliefs, personal opinion or gives an explanation of my opinion. And no, I didn't talk to those people so nobody explained to me what there ''loyal duty'' was. Sincerely, Lesley I think there is a misunderstanding, I was giving critique on the copied text, not you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lesley Posted May 31, 2022 Share Posted May 31, 2022 Hi Inhapi, Good to know, I really thought you was thinking that I had written/support such ideas. My apologies for the misunderstanding! Sincerely, Lesley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BansheeOne Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 Enhanced Forward Presence becomes Intensified Forward Presence with the planned basing of a German brigade HQ in Lithuania. AIUI that doesn't mean the current battlegroup will become a permanently present brigade, but designated units will be ready to reinforce to that level at short notice like the current backup troops which were sent there on the eve of the Ukraine invasion. Maybe it will become a permanent brigade under a future Aggravated Forward Presence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 Perhaps the British will support a Very Cross Forward Presence in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BansheeOne Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 (edited) 😁 Here's the joint German-Lithuanian statement with all the bullshit bingo buzzwords. Quote Joint communiqué The President of the Republic of Lithuania, Mr Gitanas Nausėda, and the Chancellor of the Federal Republic of Germany, Mr Olaf Scholz, met in Vilnius on June 7, 2022. The President welcomed the visit of the German Chancellor, including to the German troops based in Pabradė as part of the enhanced Forward Presence by NATO. In light of the Russian war against Ukraine, which has shattered decades of peace in Europe and acknowledging that Russia is and, on the current trajectory, will remain a long term military threat, both leaders reconfirmed their committment to the collective defence of all Allies as enshrined in the Washington Treaty. They emphasized that NATO’s posture requires a longer-term adaptation reflecting the changed security environment in the euro-atlantic area. Both leaders shared the ambition to further strengthen the Eastern part of NATO, in order to ensure the continued credible deterrence and defence of the Alliance. In this vein, and in light of decisions to be taken at the NATO Summit in Madrid at the end of June, both leaders agreed that, in addition to the current and reinforced enhanced Forward Presence Battle Group already in place, • Germany is ready to lead a robust and combat-ready brigade in Lithuania dedicated to deter and defend against Russian aggression. Initially, led by a permanently deployed Brigade Forward Command Element in Lithuania, this brigade will consist of German combat forces specifically designated for this purpose, potentially augmented by possible multinational contributions, to form a powerful and exclusively dedicated combat formation ready to be rapidly de- and employed. These forces will be integrated into a regionally focused, intensive and comprehensive exercise program including rotating forces and Lithuanian Home Defence Forces in order to improve and ensure interoperability, cohesion, combat effectiveness and the ability for rapid reinforcement. • Lithuania will support the instantaneous reaction and sustainability of this intensified Forward Presence. Essential components will include adequate Host Nation Support, infrastructure for stockpiling and predisposition of military equipment as well as adequate exercise and training facilities. The President and the Chancellor agreed that this approach provides a framework to balance military requirements, operational needs and ressources, thus ensuring a sustainable, credible, and scalable reinforcement of the military posture in the Baltic region, which allows to scale up the Allied in place forces up to brigade size in the longer term. They welcomed that their Ministers of Defence will work to jointly implement this framework. They noted with satisfaction that this is yet another proof of the excellent level of co-operation between Lithuania and Germany, both as NATO Allies and bilaterally. Edited June 7, 2022 by BansheeOne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Galbraith Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 On 6/7/2022 at 1:10 PM, Josh said: Perhaps the British will support a Very Cross Forward Presence in the future. I dont know, but Ive heard tell of a 'Im really bloody annoyed, I cant begin to tell you' presence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ssnake Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 "Deeply unpleasant" is the term you're looking for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BansheeOne Posted June 22, 2022 Share Posted June 22, 2022 Quote Moscow and NATO could be about to clash over Russia's European exclave Kaliningrad PUBLISHED WED, JUN 22 2022 4:18 AM EDT UPDATED 3 HOURS AGO Holly Ellyatt A new front in tensions between Russia and NATO has opened up after one of the Western military alliance's members, Lithuania, banned the transit of some goods coming from Russia to its exclave Kaliningrad on the Baltic Sea. Russia has vowed to retaliate over what it described as the "hostile actions" of Lithuania, warning of "serious" consequences, while NATO members have reiterated their support for the country. Here's a brief guide to what's going on, and why it matters as the Russia-Ukraine conflict rumbles on in the background. What's happened? Lithuania said last week that it would ban the transit of some EU-sanctioned goods coming from Russia across its territory to the Russian exclave of Kaliningrad. The government said the blockade would apply to all EU-sanctioned goods coming from the mainland via rail, effectively blocking the transit of metals, coal, construction materials and high-technology products to the Russian sea port. Lithuania said that its decision was taken after consultation with the European Commission, the EU's executive arm, and that it's enforcing sanctions on Russia that were imposed following the unprovoked invasion of Ukraine on Feb. 24. Russia responded to Lithuania, a former Soviet republic, by calling the move an "unprecedented" and "hostile" act, with its Foreign Ministry issuing a statement Tuesday in which it said "if in the near future cargo transit between the Kaliningrad region and the rest of the territory of the Russian Federation through Lithuania is not restored in full, then Russia reserves the right to take actions to protect its national interests." [...] Lithuania's ban on the transit of some EU-sanctioned goods, announced last Friday and implemented on Saturday, prompted panic buying in Kaliningrad. The region's governor, Anton Alikhanov, insisted Russia would increase the number of cargo ships transiting goods from St. Petersburg to the exclave over the remainder of the year. What could happen next? It's uncertain how Moscow will react to Lithuania's move. On Monday, President Vladimir Putin's press secretary, Dmitry Peskov, called the move "illegal" and said "this decision is really unprecedented." "The situation is more than serious. … We need a serious in-depth analysis in order to work out our response," he added. Lithuania's Foreign Ministry issued a statement Monday saying "the transit of passengers and non-sanctioned goods to and from the Kaliningrad region through Lithuania continues uninterrupted." It added that Lithuania "has not imposed any unilateral, individual, or additional restrictions on the transit" and that it is consistently implementing EU sanctions. Josep Borrell, the EU's foreign policy chief, also backed Lithuania on Monday, saying he was worried about what form the retaliation might take while he defended Vilnius' position. "Certainly I am always worried about the Russian retaliations," Borrell said, but he insisted there was no "blockade." "Lithuania has not taken any unilateral national restrictions and only applies the European Union sanctions" he said, saying any reports in Russia that Lithuania was implementing its own sanctions was "pure propaganda." Timothy Ash, senior sovereign strategist at BlueBay Asset Management, commented Tuesday that "it's fair to say that Kaliningrad is a strategic imperative for Russia" noting that defending and sustaining it certainly is. "Russia will react for sure, the only question is what that will be ... [and] what Russia could do militarily," he noted. "A land attack to drive a corridor through Lithuania would be a direct attack on Lithuania triggering NATO Article 5 defence. Putin knows this - that's war with NATO. Can Putin afford that when he is struggling to deliver on even his now much-reduced strategic objectives in Ukraine? He would also have to launch an assault through Belarus, stretching his supply lines, and splitting his forces," he noted. Ash suggested that Russia could seek to use its sizeable naval assets in the Baltic Sea to enforce some kind of tit-for-tat blockade on Lithuanian trade although again that would be seen as a huge escalation by both NATO and the EU. "It would then be a fine dividing line whether that would trigger the NATO Article 5 defence," however, he noted. When asked on Wednesday whether Russia's response would be exclusively diplomatic or would go further, Russia's Foreign Ministry spokeswoman, Maria Zakharova, said "the answer is no. They will not be diplomatic, but practical." [...] https://www.cnbc.com/2022/06/22/russia-and-nato-member-lithuania-are-clashing-over-kaliningrad.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Posted June 22, 2022 Share Posted June 22, 2022 I don't think it will come down to an actual "clash"; that headline is a pretty click baity. But the timing of this measure is interesting...if this due to EU sanctions, why now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BansheeOne Posted June 22, 2022 Share Posted June 22, 2022 I was surprised I could find so few English reports on it with a quick search, so I went with this one despite the alarmist headline. The date is actually strictly in line with the fourth phase of the sanctions becoming effective on 17 June, now including steel and other metal products, construction materials and coal. I suppose previously sanctioned goods may have been blocked before already, but with the latest stage the volume increases to 40-50 percent of total supplies to Kaliningrad per local estimates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huba Posted June 22, 2022 Share Posted June 22, 2022 14 minutes ago, BansheeOne said: I was surprised I could find so few English reports on it with a quick search, so I went with this one despite the alarmist headline. The date is actually strictly in line with the fourth phase of the sanctions becoming effective on 17 June, now including steel and other metal products, construction materials and coal. I suppose previously sanctioned goods may have been blocked before already, but with the latest stage the volume increases to 40-50 percent of total supplies to Kaliningrad per local estimates. I is just a special logistical operation, nothing to see here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glenn239 Posted June 22, 2022 Share Posted June 22, 2022 6 hours ago, Josh said: I don't think it will come down to an actual "clash"; that headline is a pretty click baity. I think about a zero percent chance of a military response. Whatever cannot go by rail they will start sending by sea. What worries me is that the Russians will continue to make an enormous fuss over what looks like a minor inconvenience for the reason they often do - to take in pocket the precedent that they've just been handed. For example, I did a quick google of Kazakhstan oil and gas export routes. https://factsanddetails.com/central-asia/Kazakhstan/sub8_4e/entry-4678.html#:~:text=OIL EXPORT ROUTES FROM KAZAKHSTAN,-Kazakhstan is landlocked&text=Major crude oil export pipelines,Atyrau-Samara pipeline to Russia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Galbraith Posted June 26, 2022 Share Posted June 26, 2022 On 6/22/2022 at 10:49 PM, glenn239 said: I think about a zero percent chance of a military response. Whatever cannot go by rail they will start sending by sea. What worries me is that the Russians will continue to make an enormous fuss over what looks like a minor inconvenience for the reason they often do - to take in pocket the precedent that they've just been handed. For example, I did a quick google of Kazakhstan oil and gas export routes. https://factsanddetails.com/central-asia/Kazakhstan/sub8_4e/entry-4678.html#:~:text=OIL EXPORT ROUTES FROM KAZAKHSTAN,-Kazakhstan is landlocked&text=Major crude oil export pipelines,Atyrau-Samara pipeline to Russia. Depends what it is. Fuel, yes. Containers, when I was poking around Kalingrad on my Corona project, there is very little evidence I could see of extensive container facilities. There was an extensive port area, but not really developed in the same way you would see, say, the Baltic states. Or the rest of Germany for that matter. I wonder if they still burn coal there? Might be fun by the winter.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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