Armenia Azerbaijan Conflict

[bojan]

They had so-so systems, some reasonably good, some less so, but that is of the secondary importance, as their real issue was integration*. You can have newest shit, does not matter if you are unable to keep it well integrated to a required level.

*And no, I am not guessing. 

[ink]

On 2/27/2024 at 1:42 PM, Sardaukar said:

Armenia - Azerbaijan War in near past was actually first "proper drone war" where Azeris used them extensively. 

Surely that title would have to go to Afghanistan which saw the first large-scale deployment and use of UCAVs by the Americans.

[urbanoid]

That was 'COIN bullshit' though.

[ink]

1 minute ago, urbanoid said:

That was 'COIN bullshit' though.

Yes indeed. But since the Americans insist on calling it a war, what option do we have but to follow suit?

[AttilaA]

So-called “artsakh national assembly” building has been dismantled.

 

Edited March 5 by AttilaA

[AttilaA]

Saw this tweet of another twitter propagandist charlatan (in the ranks of Lindsey Snell, Neil Hauer etc)

1: There is no place called “Stepanakert”. Even Russia, the successor to Soviet Union (during which Khankendi was renamed “Stepanakert” and built into a city, financed by Azerbaijan SSR itself), has reverted to using Khankendi in official documents. 

2: This was so-called parliament building of “artsakh republic”. Who should Azerbaijan ask before demolishing the symbol of separatism on its sovereign territories? Not a “landmark” of any kind.

 

Edited March 5 by AttilaA

[AttilaA]

Why I call these people as charlatans:

Khankendi, just like rest of Karabakh, was a part of independent Azerbaijan Republic of 1918-1920. 

As for Soviet period, Khankendi was part of Azerbaijan SSR. Karabakh was an autonomous oblast of Azerbaijan Soviet Republic. The city’s construction was financed from Azerbaijan SSR’s budget. The same Azerbaijan SSR that was the major oil producer of Soviet Union. Imagine disorting facts like this. 

 

Edited March 5 by AttilaA

[AttilaA]

Edited March 5 by AttilaA

[Roman Alymov]

3 hours ago, AttilaA said:

Well, on old Russian Empire time postcard it is also "Khankendi" (text in Russian reads "Shusha town and, in the distance, Khankendi headquarter")

  But at the same time "Khankendi" means, as far as i understand, something like "Khan's settlement" and is related to the last Khan of Karabakh Mehdiqulu xan Cavanşir (1763 — 1845) who, after entire life of complex relations with Russian Empire (he was Magor General of Rus Army after sighning unification, but at sertan time fled to join Persia in another war against Russian Empire - still, in the end of his life, was pardoned, given pension and allowed to create this settlement). So for this ancient region where history is stretching thousands of years back it is quite new name.

   Curiously, to give idea how fresh this story is even for Europeans, the daughter of last Khan of Karabakh was gifted poet and met Alexandre Dumas during his Caucas trip.

    In tvist of history, there was recently complains about memorial to this poet (Natəvan) in France - as far as i understand, regional officials in small French city were debating removal of it on the wake of AM community demands.

[AttilaA]

7 hours ago, Roman Alymov said:

Well, on old Russian Empire time postcard it is also "Khankendi" (text in Russian reads "Shusha town and, in the distance, Khankendi headquarter")

  But at the same time "Khankendi" means, as far as i understand, something like "Khan's settlement" and is related to the last Khan of Karabakh Mehdiqulu xan Cavanşir (1763 — 1845) who, after entire life of complex relations with Russian Empire (he was Magor General of Rus Army after sighning unification, but at sertan time fled to join Persia in another war against Russian Empire - still, in the end of his life, was pardoned, given pension and allowed to create this settlement). So for this ancient region where history is stretching thousands of years back it is quite new name.

The main town of Karabakh was Shusha, which also served as the capital of Karabakh Khanate.

Khankendi was built into a city during Soviet period like said, and renamed Stepanakert after Armenian revolutionary Stepan Shaumian. But it was built with funds from Azerbaijan SSR, which it was part of. So trying to detach it from Azerbaijan is disingenious. 
 

 

[AttilaA]

11 hours ago, Roman Alymov said:

    In tvist of history, there was recently complains about memorial to this poet (Natəvan) in France - as far as i understand, regional officials in small French city were debating removal of it on the wake of AM community demands.

Natavan’s grave, along with graves of other members of Karabakh Khanate’s nobility (including its founder), is located in Imarat cemetery. It was desecrated and looted by Armenians.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imarat_cemetery

 

 

Edited March 6 by AttilaA

[AttilaA]

Metaphoricsl meaning of Novruz bonfire: Cleansing of evil spirits 

 

Edited March 19 by AttilaA

[Roman Alymov]

13 minutes ago, AttilaA said:

Metaphoricsl meaning of Novruz bonfire: Cleansing of evil spirits 

Seems like Armenia will be NATO soon, i wonder how they will coexist with Turkey

[urbanoid]

15 hours ago, Roman Alymov said:

Seems like Armenia will be NATO soon, i wonder how they will coexist with Turkey

So after evil spirits are cleansed Armenia can become a NATO member? Sounds about right.

[Perun]

Armenia buys Indian Pinaka rocket launchers

https://defence-blog.com/armenia-buys-indian-pinaka-rocket-launchers/

[Roman Alymov]

10 hours ago, urbanoid said:

So after evil spirits are cleansed Armenia can become a NATO member? Sounds about right.

I'm affraid after another evil spirits cleansed 1915-way, Armenia would be allready in NATO (at least Armenian disapora in France, NATO member country).

[AttilaA]

The reference is to separatism and its symbols, not the Armenian population.

Armenians of Karabakh do not want to live under Azerbaijani flag, hence why they collectively left. 

https://eurasianet.org/armenian-exodus-from-karabakh-begins

“We would rather sleep in the streets than live under Azerbaijan," he told Eurasianet.”

I’m sure it would not be different in Poland, Russia or France if a group of people refused to accept state jurisdiction. 

 

[crazyinsane105]

5 hours ago, Perun said:

Armenia buys Indian Pinaka rocket launchers

https://defence-blog.com/armenia-buys-indian-pinaka-rocket-launchers/

The switch to India for defense needs (ATGMs, SAMs, artillery, etc.) is pretty much due to the fact that Russia is no longer supplying most of their client states with weaponry. So Armenia needs similar systems but for cheap, hence India stepped in.

How much better their weapons are to Russia is to be seen

[AttilaA]

5 hours ago, crazyinsane105 said:

How much better their weapons are to Russia is to be seen

Hopefully there will be no need to see if Armenia drops irredentism and territorial claims (not in words, but in practice), after which a peace treaty can be signed based on mutual recognition of territorial integrity and non use of force. 

[Perun]

Seyran Ohanian, a former defense minister leading the parliamentary group of Armenia’s main opposition group, on Thursday urged the Armenian military to disobey Prime Minister Nikol Pashinian’s orders to withdraw from disputed border areas demanded by Azerbaijan.

Ohanian said that Pashinian’s plans to unilaterally cede them to Baku are illegal given the absence of any mutually agreed mechanism for the delimitation of the Armenian-Azerbaijani border.

Pashinian defended his plans on Monday when he visited two of the villages in Armenia’s northern Tavush province adjacent to four deserted settlements occupied by the Armenian army in 1991-1992. He told local residents that Azerbaijan will attack Armenia unless it regains control of them. He also admitted that Baku does not intend to give back any Armenian territory in the Tavush area captured by Azerbaijani forces in the early 1990s.

“What is this if not treacherous behavior towards the people of Armenia?” Ohanian told a news conference. “There will probably be grounds for starting legal proceedings here if he does initiate these steps.”

“I think that people involved in this process must be held accountable,” he said. “Secondly, I think that in the border areas, in Armenia [as a whole] and in the army itself there are intelligent people who can reject this illegal process.”

“It is every person’s right to reject that criminal process. That can include military personnel. The army is a disciplined structure that defends our country. What I’m saying is not to give up that defense but to reject illegal orders,” added the retired general who served as defense minister from 2008-2016.

Ohanian’s Hayastan alliance and the other opposition bloc represented in the Armenian parliament, Pativ Unem, say the territorial concessions would not only have serious consequences for the security of the affected Tavush communities but also the country as a whole. Ohanian reiterated that the handover of the border areas would breach the integrity of the Armenian army’s border defense fortifications in Tavush reinforced over the last three decades.

The ruined villages claimed by Baku are strategically located along one of the two main Armenian highways leading to Georgia as well as the pipeline supplying Russian natural gas to Armenia. Pashinian said on March 12 that the local sections of that infrastructure must be rerouted “so that they pass through Armenia’s de jure territory.”

https://www.azatutyun.am/a/32871927.html

[Roman Alymov]

Strange events in Erevan, reportedly three armed men attacked police building, then two of them were injured by their own grenade explosion. Reportedly they are members of war veterans organisation who came to liberate their friends detained in this police station for illegal posession of firearms....

[AttilaA]

On 3/22/2024 at 8:39 AM, Perun said:

The ruined villages claimed by Baku are strategically located along one of the two main Armenian highways leading to Georgia as well as the pipeline supplying Russian natural gas to Armenia. Pashinian said on March 12 that the local sections of that infrastructure must be rerouted “so that they pass through Armenia’s de jure territory.”

https://www.azatutyun.am/a/32871927.html

We are talking about 4 undisputed Azerbaijani villages that were occupied in 1990, before the war in Karabakh. This is excluding the enclaves that would be a topic of negotiation, a different matter (there is also an Armenian enclave inside Azerbaijan).

Also just like everywhere else, Armenians commited massacres when occupying those villages. People were burned alive in Baghanis Ayrum village. 

As for Ohanian’s suggestion, who btw was in Karabakh in 2020 war leading a group of Armenian troops in Shusha (so he has seen the decimation of Armenian army first hand), it’s interesting that he thinks it’s about rhetoric rather than capabilities. A large portion of Armenians think like that, as if not for Pashinyan, Armenia would magically transform into dictating terms. Although like said, Ohanian knows better. 

Look at this idiot for example. Of course no one tells him that if Armenia is not to accept international borders like he says, then there would be no Armenia in the end.

But Azerbaijanis are the warmongers, poor Armenians, amirite?

 

Edited March 25 by AttilaA

[AttilaA]

 

[AttilaA]

A great lie on the internet, spread everywhere, that supposedly “Stalin gave Karabakh to Azerbaijan”.

This is an Armenian source:

https://armenian.usc.edu/qa-with-arsene-saparov-no-evidence-that-stalin-gave-karabakh-to-azerbaijan/

Matter of fact is that Azerbaijani troops were in control of Karabakh at the time of Soviet annexation. The eventual Soviet decision was “to leave Karabakh within Azerbaijan SSR”, not “give Karabakh to Azerbaijan SSR”.

Edited March 25 by AttilaA

[Roman Alymov]

2 hours ago, AttilaA said:

A great lie on the internet, spread everywhere, that supposedly “Stalin gave Karabakh to Azerbaijan”.

This is an Armenian source:

https://armenian.usc.edu/qa-with-arsene-saparov-no-evidence-that-stalin-gave-karabakh-to-azerbaijan/

Matter of fact is that Azerbaijani troops were in control of Karabakh at the time of Soviet annexation. The eventual Soviet decision was “to leave Karabakh within Azerbaijan SSR”, not “give Karabakh to Azerbaijan SSR”.

Interesting that comission is four ethnic Georgians (including one half-Gerogian - Stalin), two Russians (Kirov and Myasnikov), one Jew, one Armenian (Nazaretyan) and two Azeri (Нариманов, Нариман Наджаф оглы — Википедия (wikipedia.org) and Гусейнов, Мирза Давуд Багир оглы — Википедия (archive.org)) Not surprising Nazaretyan (who have initiated this discussion alongside Orjonikidze) have lost, more over the decision on the scale of autonomy rights and borders was keft to Soviet AZ republics.