Perun Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 PM Pashinyan Warns Azerbaijan Preparing for Large-Scale War Against Armenia https://massispost.com/2024/02/pm-pashinyan-warns-azerbaijan-preparing-for-large-scale-war-against-armenia/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AttilaA Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 (edited) 43 minutes ago, Perun said: PM Pashinyan Warns Azerbaijan Preparing for Large-Scale War Against Armenia https://massispost.com/2024/02/pm-pashinyan-warns-azerbaijan-preparing-for-large-scale-war-against-armenia/ He is saying this for support from Western countries. There is no logic in Azerbaijan invading Armenia, not least because of sanctions that would follow against Azerbaijani energy exports (EU countries are the largest customers). But it’s funny seeing the hypocricy, the same group of countries did nothing when Armenia occupied undisputed Azerbaijani territory. In fact, they wanted to preserve the status-quo. France still can’t let go of the fact that “artsakh” terror entity is sent to garbage bin of history. They tried several times to adopt a UN resolution against Azerbaijan in September last year. Edited February 16 by AttilaA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perun Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 3 minutes ago, AttilaA said: He is saying this for support from Western countries. There is no logic in Azerbaijan invading Armenia, not least because of sanctions that would follow against Azerbaijani energy exports (EU countries are the largest customers). But it’s funny seeing the hypocricy, the same group of countries did nothing when Armenia occupied undisputed Azerbaijani territory. In fact, they wanted to preserve that. France still can’t let go of the fact that “artsakh” terror entity is sent to garbage bin of history. What support EU countries could give to Armenia except verbal one? I doubt that there would be any sanctions especialy on oil and gas export Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roman Alymov Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 7 minutes ago, AttilaA said: France still can’t let go of the fact that “artsakh” terror entity is sent to garbage bin of history. Leaving aside terror etc. wording, it worth to note Armenia itself has newer recognised Artsakh, not to mention integrating it. To some extent it is simmilar to what comprador Gov of Russian Federation was doing to Novoroissia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AttilaA Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 (edited) 37 minutes ago, Roman Alymov said: Leaving aside terror etc. wording, it worth to note Armenia itself has newer recognised Artsakh, not to mention integrating it. To some extent it is simmilar to what comprador Gov of Russian Federation was doing to Novoroissia. First of all, their intention was always annexing it into Armenia (see “Miatsum”). Armenia never recognized it because doing so would have killed the negotiations from the start, and they didn’t have other countries backing them on it. But they still wished to preserve the status quo and de-facto occupation. As long as de-facto occupation continued, de-jure recognition wasn’t so important. Former NKAO + 7 districts was practically integrated into Armenia. The core part of Armenian armed forces was deployed in Karabakh (Armenian conscripts served there), it was that army which Azerbaijan defeated in 2020. Karabakh’s budget was provided from within Armenian state budget (even after 2020 war, btw). Armenian maps also included those territories as part of Armenia. See this (before the 2nd Karabakh war): Edited February 16 by AttilaA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roman Alymov Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 7 minutes ago, AttilaA said: First of all, their intention was always annexing it into Armenia (see “Miatsum”). Armenia never recognized it because doing so would have killed the negotiations from the start, and they didn’t have other countries backing them on it. But they still wished to preserve the status quo and de-facto occupation. Former NKAO + 7 districts was practically integrated into Armenia. You don’t really know what you are talking about, to say the least. The core part of Armenian armed forces was deployed in Karabakh (Armenian conscripts served there), it was that army which Azerbaijan defeated in 2020. Karabakh’s budget was provided from within Armenian state budget (even after 2020 war, btw). Armenian maps also included those territories as part of Armenia. This is Nikol Pashinyan’s More over, Armenia itself was for decades (1997—2018) ruled by so called "Karabakh clan". It is like Zakharchenko or Bezler becoming President of Russia. Still lack of official recognition is remarkable. Nikol Pashinyan, with all his known disadvantages, became possible as results of this decades - from most educated* part of USSR Armenia became ruined country in the middle of nowhere with all capable population leaving for work in Russia, and those left dreaming about some sort of West-provided instant paradise. Re maps etc. - who cares, "Globe of Ukraine" was popular souveneer * in terms of Univercity degrees per capita Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roman Alymov Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 P.S. The books/maps shown in your post are titled sort of "Proud citizen. Foreign (international?) passport". No idea of what is it, but hardly any official document...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AttilaA Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 (edited) 5 hours ago, Roman Alymov said: More over, Armenia itself was for decades (1997—2018) ruled by so called "Karabakh clan". It is like Zakharchenko or Bezler becoming President of Russia. Still lack of official recognition is remarkable. Nikol Pashinyan, with all his known disadvantages, became possible as results of this decades - from most educated* part of USSR Armenia became ruined country in the middle of nowhere with all capable population leaving for work in Russia, and those left dreaming about some sort of West-provided instant paradise. Re maps etc. - who cares, "Globe of Ukraine" was popular souveneer * in terms of Univercity degrees per capita Because they couldn’t, very simple. Armenia is not Russia to get away with blatant land grabs like that. So they hoped to preserve the status quo, mostly by relying on Russia. Your own example shows that Karabakh during occupation years had practically become a province of Armenia. That is common knowledge, not sure what are we even discussing here? You have access to Russian language sources, you should know. How is that comparable? This is a photo of chief of Armenia’s security council. Pay attention to the map behind him. These maps included not only former NKAO (which had a sizeable Azerbaijani minority at 25% of population, so it’s not like it was exclusively Armenian populated), but 7 occupied districts outside it with zero Armenian population. Edited February 16 by AttilaA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AttilaA Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 (edited) 4 hours ago, Roman Alymov said: P.S. The books/maps shown in your post are titled sort of "Proud citizen. Foreign (international?) passport". No idea of what is it, but hardly any official document...... 2019: “Artsakh is Armenia, and that’s it,” Pashinyan said during his hour-long August 5 speech in Stepanakert, the de facto capital of Nagorno-Karabakh. (Artsakh is the Armenian word for Karabakh.) The prime minister also repeatedly led the crowd in chants of “miatsum,” or “unification,” the nationalist slogan that gained popularity in the 1980s and 90s as Armenians fought for Karabakh to break away from Azerbaijan. https://eurasianet.org/pashinyan-calls-for-unification-between-armenia-and-karabakh Edited February 16 by AttilaA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roman Alymov Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 3 hours ago, AttilaA said: 2019: “Artsakh is Armenia, and that’s it,” Pashinyan said during his hour-long August 5 speech in Stepanakert, the de facto capital of Nagorno-Karabakh. (Artsakh is the Armenian word for Karabakh.) The prime minister also repeatedly led the crowd in chants of “miatsum,” or “unification,” the nationalist slogan that gained popularity in the 1980s and 90s as Armenians fought for Karabakh to break away from Azerbaijan. https://eurasianet.org/pashinyan-calls-for-unification-between-armenia-and-karabakh So Pashinyan is just anoher populis politician with lots of loiud rethoric (as far as i remember, he once promised to send his sonm to serve in NK) but then failing to deliver. In what way it is contradiction here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roman Alymov Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 3 hours ago, AttilaA said: Because they couldn’t, very simple. Armenia is not Russia to get away with blatant land grabs like that. So they hoped to preserve the status quo, mostly by relying on Russia. What does it mean "they couldn’t"? According to Armenians, it is their historic land (well, there is significant truth in it as almost entire region once was "Great Armenia" - but it was long ago) so it was logical for them to formally recognise it, especially taking into account their international support with Armenian genocide etc. At least, they were in far more logical position for that than Jews to claim Palestine land. Still, their political leadership have decided not to bother.... Re "relying on Russia" - it was very special way of relying..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roman Alymov Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 4 hours ago, AttilaA said: Your own example shows that Karabakh during occupation years had practically become a province of Armenia. That is common knowledge, not sure what are we even discussing here? You have access to Russian language sources, you should know. I'm affraid i have failed to explain my point in clear way. There is no doubt NK was de-facto part of Armenia (as state) but newer was de-jure recognised. Why? As for me, it was the result of Armenian leadership overrelience on West. By the way probably - picture from "Armenian" kindergarden in Lvov https://t.me/historiographe/11359 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AttilaA Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 (edited) Aliyev: Work on establishing a production, service and training center of Baykar in Azerbaijan is progressing rapidly. This center will be opened either this year or the next. At the same time, we are in the final stages of negotiations on joint production with several Turkish defence companies. Edited February 20 by AttilaA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AttilaA Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 “The Chief of the General Staff of the Azerbaijan Army visited several military units stationed in the Karabakh region” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perun Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 (edited) Kremlin seeks clarity from Armenia after it freezes participation in CSTO https://armenpress.am/eng/news/1130972.html Looks like Pashinyan is playing for Azerbaijan Edited February 23 by Perun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roman Alymov Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 36 minutes ago, Perun said: Looks like Pashinyan is playing for Azerbaijan Pro-Rus take on that: "Pashinyan, declaring his intention to withdraw from the CSTO, shows that he belongs to the widespread category of politicians today who are deprived of the ability to perceive cause-and-effect relationships. Unfortunately, this concerns many representatives of the political elite in Armenia – either conscious enemies of Armenia, or simply very poorly thinking people who are unable to assess the consequences, can consistently split this country from Russia. There are also widespread illusions among these people that proper pro-Western rhetoric can provide better protection than an alliance with Russia. But this union is also perceived very one–sidedly - Russia is obligated to provide protection, and Armenia only takes it for granted. No, there are wonderful thinking people among the Armenians, sincere patriots of both their country and our common Homeland, the core of which was, is and will be Russia. But in order for these people to start listening, apparently, a cup of suffering is needed, and Pashinyan is organizing it by his actions." ( https://t.me/vysokygovorit/14728 ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AttilaA Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 (edited) . Edited February 26 by AttilaA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perun Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 Armenia subjects Azerbaijani Army's positions to fire in Nakhchivan direction https://www.azernews.az/nation/222347.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AttilaA Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 (edited) France to supply 3 GM 200 radars to Armenia. The two sides are also negotiating on Mistral short range AD missiles. https://www.rferl.org/amp/france-armenia-defense-deal-ties/32833387.html Edited February 27 by AttilaA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AttilaA Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 (edited) On 2/16/2024 at 8:58 AM, Perun said: What support EU countries could give to Armenia except verbal one? Edited February 27 by AttilaA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perun Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 as I said, words..they will send Armenia a contingent of wery strong words Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sardaukar Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 Armenia - Azerbaijan War in near past was actually first "proper drone war" where Azeris used them extensively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bojan Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 (edited) 49 minutes ago, Sardaukar said: Armenia - Azerbaijan War in near past was actually first "proper drone war" where Azeris used them extensively. But a lot of "lessons" (MALE drones like TB-2 being a king) showed to be non-applicable when someone had any kind of decent AD. Hence both TB-2s and Russian attempt on same dying like doddos at Ukraine frontlines and are being relegated to a long range surveyance platforms (where they do OK work, but have all non-needed parts for it, like weapon carrying capability), while frontline uses cheap ones, like Orlan, various Ukrainian home-made and commercial. Because you can afford to lose those in droves, while TB-2 and equivalent cost way too much to afford loses from a "real" war. Edited February 27 by bojan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sardaukar Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 Indeed. And Armenians were seriously caught with their pants down in that war. They just were not in any way prepared to extensive use of drones or having decent AD (since considering either side aircraft numbers, it was seen as not needed that much). Oops! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AttilaA Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 (edited) Armenia had “decent” air defence for its size, although most systems were old. But they also had new Tor-M2 for example, at least two of which were destroyed by Harop loitering munition. Of course Russia has everything in much bigger quantity, and most of it new, in addition to a large manned aviation inventory. So not exactly comparable. But I’m not sure how correct it is to say that Armenia did not have “decent” AD on paper. I seem to remember people thinking that Armenia’s S-300 divisions had supposedly secured the skies. Although again, they were old PT and PS variants that Russia started to phase out since 2000s. Edited February 28 by AttilaA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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