Armenia Azerbaijan Conflict

[JWB]

6 hours ago, glenn239 said:

I can understand why Armenia might want the Americans, but what does Armenia bring to the table for the Americans, other than the usual weak damsel in distress bit?

Armenia has nothing for the USA. I do not know why Roman is posting these conspiracy theories.

[Roman Alymov]

6 hours ago, JWB said:

Armenia has nothing for the USA. I do not know why Roman is posting these conspiracy theories.

No doubt that is why U.S. embassy in Armenia is the second largest in the world (after the embassy in Baghdad, and bigger than one in China). 

More on that https://tonyseed.wordpress.com/2018/11/01/certain-us-embassies-are-large-military-intelligence-centres/

The US Embassy in Armenia, built near Yerevan Lake, is stretched out across an area of 9 hectares; the Americans obtained this site from the government of Armenia for only $5 million.

The ceremonial opening of the new embassy took place on May 6th, 2005. Five buildings with a total area of 14,000 square metres are located across nine hectares. The walls of the buildings have a thickness of 50 centimetres and are built from monolithic concrete with metal gauze. The embassy will have an autonomous energy supply and its own reservoir, noted the American diplomats at the opening ceremony with pride.

One of the buildings is intended for marines.

At the time of opening of the embassy there were only six people. However, according to the Armenian media, by 2013 their number reached 800. As one of the Armenian journalists wrote back then, “a fully-fledged US naval base appeared in the centre of Yerevan”.

Why does Washington need such a huge complex of ambassadorial buildings in a small country that has neither sea access, nor big mineral deposits, nor large investment projects (the sale of the Vorotan Cascade to the Americans became the only such“project”)?

The answer is given by the American expert Daniel Gaynor, who is an employee of the Truman Center for National Policy. Here is a fragment from his article titled “US Relations with Armenia: In Facing Middle East Adversaries, America Has a Secret Weapon”:

“The best explanation is a real estate mantra: location, location, location. Armenia, a landlocked country with just 3 million people, might be in the roughest neighbourhood in the world. But in America’s eyes, it might be in the most important position of any U.S. ally to advance President Obama’s foreign policy agenda. What Armenia lacks in natural resources – it has little oil, gas or jewels – it makes up for in geography. Few countries are in better position to shape U.S. foreign policy than Armenia. Armenia borders Turkey, Azerbaijan, Georgia, and Iran. As a part of the former Soviet Union, it relies on nearby Russia extensively for trade and military backing. The U.S. has a significant stake in all five countries, and Armenia is now coming into view as a potentially potent lever to advance American aims.”

[JWB]

8 hours ago, Roman Alymov said:

No doubt that is why U.S. embassy in Armenia is the second largest in the world (after the embassy in Baghdad, and bigger than one in China). 

More on that https://tonyseed.wordpress.com/2018/11/01/certain-us-embassies-are-large-military-intelligence-centres/

The US Embassy in Armenia, built near Yerevan Lake, is stretched out across an area of 9 hectares; the Americans obtained this site from the government of Armenia for only $5 million.

The ceremonial opening of the new embassy took place on May 6th, 2005. Five buildings with a total area of 14,000 square metres are located across nine hectares. The walls of the buildings have a thickness of 50 centimetres and are built from monolithic concrete with metal gauze. The embassy will have an autonomous energy supply and its own reservoir, noted the American diplomats at the opening ceremony with pride.

One of the buildings is intended for marines.

At the time of opening of the embassy there were only six people. However, according to the Armenian media, by 2013 their number reached 800. As one of the Armenian journalists wrote back then, “a fully-fledged US naval base appeared in the centre of Yerevan”.

Why does Washington need such a huge complex of ambassadorial buildings in a small country that has neither sea access, nor big mineral deposits, nor large investment projects (the sale of the Vorotan Cascade to the Americans became the only such“project”)?

The answer is given by the American expert Daniel Gaynor, who is an employee of the Truman Center for National Policy. Here is a fragment from his article titled “US Relations with Armenia: In Facing Middle East Adversaries, America Has a Secret Weapon”:

“The best explanation is a real estate mantra: location, location, location. Armenia, a landlocked country with just 3 million people, might be in the roughest neighbourhood in the world. But in America’s eyes, it might be in the most important position of any U.S. ally to advance President Obama’s foreign policy agenda. What Armenia lacks in natural resources – it has little oil, gas or jewels – it makes up for in geography. Few countries are in better position to shape U.S. foreign policy than Armenia. Armenia borders Turkey, Azerbaijan, Georgia, and Iran. As a part of the former Soviet Union, it relies on nearby Russia extensively for trade and military backing. The U.S. has a significant stake in all five countries, and Armenia is now coming into view as a potentially potent lever to advance American aims.”

None of this has anything to do with Armenia being any kind of vassal.  USA does not tell Armenians who to vote for. US government does not control Armenian government. That embassy is just a listening post.

[Markus Becker]

2 hours ago, JWB said:

None of this has anything to do with Armenia being any kind of vassal.  USA does not tell Armenians who to vote for. US government does not control Armenian government. That embassy is just a listening post.

This and previous US Gubbermints struggled to keep it's own country from disorder. 

The only Murricans who pull the strings of others are patreons of strip clubs. 

[Perun]

@AttilaA what is opinion in Azerbaijan on Armenians in NK, would they be safe if they stay or would be safer for them to leave?

[JWB]

 

[JWB]

 

[Roman Alymov]

Tragic incident in NK - fuel station exploded with numerous casualties, about 200 people badly burn, Armenians pleed for help and evacuation of victims by airб blaming AZ for diversion, AZ side proposed field hospitals to be deployed in the area.

[BAMF]

6 hours ago, JWB said:

 

Curb  stomped. Kind of like what is happening to the Russians in Ukraine.

[JWB]

 

[Mike1158]

No idea why Russia failed to endorse a land grab when they are far too happy to do so themselves.

Edited September 26, 2023 by Mike1158

[JWB]

 Azerbaijan said it arrested the former head of Nagorno-Karabakh’s separatist government as he tried to cross into Armenia on Wednesday along with tens of thousands of others who fled the region following Azerbaijan’s 24-hour blitz last week to reclaim control of the enclave.  Also Wednesday, Azerbaijan’s Health Ministry said a total of 192 Azerbaijani troops were killed and 511 were wounded during the offensive in Nagorno-Karabakh. One Azeri civilian also died in the hostilities, the ministry said.

https://apnews.com/article/nagorno-karabakh-azerbaijan-armenia-troops-killed-offensive-1d13668014fac4e44a76c04b54378268?taid=6513db2d3ba4d000018109dd&utm_campaign=TrueAnthem&utm_medium=AP&utm_source=Twitter

[JWB]

 

[DB]

On 9/26/2023 at 8:27 PM, Mike1158 said:

No idea why Russia failed to endorse a land grab when they are far too happy to do so themselves.

It never ceases to amaze me when people demand consistency of action when they should be looking at consistency of interest. 

I suppose that it's also possible that Russia would prefer to prevent this but the customer service line has a 600 day-ish waiting time.

[ink]

59 minutes ago, DB said:

It never ceases to amaze me when people demand consistency of action when they should be looking at consistency of interest. 

I suppose that it's also possible that Russia would prefer to prevent this but the customer service line has a 600 day-ish waiting time.

It's also entirely possible that Russia's non-reaction is part of a deal with Turkey that also includes who knows what else.

[Dawes]

This whole event didn't even make the evening news in the USA. Evidently it wasn't considered newsworthy.

[bojan]

3 hours ago, Dawes said:

This whole event didn't even make the evening news in the USA. Evidently it wasn't considered newsworthy.

Because 80+k people exodus is not considered ethnic cleansing when right side does that.

[Sardaukar]

Well, Russia was supposed to support Armenia.

Apparently they are busy elsewhere and didn't want to annoy Turkey...

[ink]

Feels to me like Bojan's comment wasn't so much about what should happen/have happened but more about how it's portrayed in the media*.

 

* which fits neatly into what I've always said about how the media reaction doesn't shape policy.

[AttilaA]

17 minutes ago, bojan said:

Because 80+k people exodus is not considered ethnic cleansing when right side does that.

Should Azerbaijan make them stay? What is your suggestion?

They don’t want to live under Azerbaijani jurisdiction no matter what, this is their choice.

“Our people do not want to live as part of Azerbaijan. 99.9% prefer to leave our historic lands,” David Babayan, an adviser to Samvel Shahramanyan, the president of the self-styled “Republic of Artsakh”.

https://www.reuters.com/article/armenian-azerbaijan-nagornokarabakh-idAFKBN30U031

Also you are conveniently forgeting that Armenians ethnically cleansed 700 thousand Azerbaijanis during First Karabakh War, not only from former NKAO (25% Azerbaijani population) but also “surrounding” 7 districts where the population was nearly 100% Azerbaijani.

Not only that, all Azerbaijani settlements were razed to ground, buildings looted and materials sold in Iranian markets.

 

Edited September 29, 2023 by AttilaA

[bojan]

I don't have solution. And I am not even criticizing Azerbaijan, since as I have noted previously that I really don't have a horse in your fight (other than I think that NK should be under Azerbaijan, since it is internationally recognized part of it).

I am pointing at "western" duplicity where one savagery is more tolerated that other, based on pure self-interests, while they tell everyone that it is due the "higher principles".

[AttilaA]

7 minutes ago, bojan said:

I don't have solution. And I am not even criticizing Azerbaijan, since as I have noted previously that I really don't have a horse in your fight (other than I think that NK should be under Azerbaijan, since it is internationally recognized part of it).

I am pointing at "western" duplicity where one savagery is more tolerated that other, based on pure self-interests, while they tell everyone that it is due the "higher principles".

But we didn’t see Western reaction to ethnic cleansing of Azerbaijanis, did we? In fact, there is far more “outcry” now compared to what Azerbaijanis got.

And they are not leaving like this:

https://x.com/clashreport/status/1706733077228056787?s=20
 

Edited September 29, 2023 by AttilaA

[bojan]

Just now, AttilaA said:

But we didn’t see Western reaction to ethnic cleansing of Azerbaijanis, did we?

Exactly. Because that was also not in their interest.

[urbanoid]

4 minutes ago, bojan said:

I don't have solution. And I am not even criticizing Azerbaijan, since as I have noted previously that I really don't have a horse in your fight (other than I think that NK should be under Azerbaijan, since it is internationally recognized part of it).

I am pointing at "western" duplicity where one savagery is more tolerated that other, based on pure self-interests, while they tell everyone that it is due the "higher principles".

The West didn't do shit when the Azeris were ethnically cleansed in the early 90s either - and that one was far more brutal.

[NickM]

1 hour ago, urbanoid said:

The West didn't do shit when the Azeris were ethnically cleansed in the early 90s either - and that one was far more brutal.

As victims of their own well known ethnic cleansing,  Armenians had a lot of sympathy in the Western World.