Armenia Azerbaijan Conflict

[glenn239]

1 hour ago, AttilaA said:

There was no attack on Armenia. Karabakh is a territory of Azerbaijan.

I understand the Azeri position and I am the last poster on this site to argue against realistic politics in this world.  But legally under international law such things are not to be decided unilaterally by force.  Occasionally, when gloating about things like an unprovoked Azeri military offensive against the Armenians to the purpose of territorial conquest, some forget their mask and gloat happily at the attack.  Sort of like the guy who claims he's crippled, but gets filmed leaving his wheelchair to walk to the fridge to get a beer.

Edited September 21, 2023 by glenn239

[AttilaA]

23 minutes ago, glenn239 said:

I understand the Azeri position and I am the last poster on this site to argue against realistic politics in this world.  But legally under international law such things are not to be decided unilaterally by force.  Occasionally, when gloating about things like an unprovoked Azeri military offensive against the Armenians to the purpose of territorial conquest, some forget their mask and gloat happily at the attack.  Sort of like the guy who claims he's crippled, but gets filmed leaving his wheelchair to walk to the fridge to get a beer.

?

Legally, Karabakh is territory of Azerbaijan. This is the position of international community. As I said, even Armenia itself (had to) recognize Azerbaijan’s territorial integrity with Karabakh in it.

This latest operation happened solely because of the illegal separatist regime, which probably thought they were immune because of Russian peacekeepers and likely the statements from the West, particularly the rhetoric of France, hence why they were still talking of independence, shooting at Azerbaijani army etc. Let me remind you that anti-terror operations started after a landmine recently planted killed Azerbaijani police and civilians. Recently because the road was built after the war. This and other actions meant that so-called “arsah army” was a clear threat to returning Azerbaijani population. Btw, two Azerbaijani civilians died in liberated territories as result of artillery shelling. 

As for Russian peacekeepers, they were never deployed with the aim of supporting or defending separatism in Azerbaijan, and they are deployed with Azerbaijan’s consent. 

Azerbaijan exclusively targeted military targets in this operation, there was no massacre of population like some twitter charlatans are claiming, and Azerbaijan invited Karabakh Armenians for discussions on re-integration. First meeting was already held today.

Edited September 21, 2023 by AttilaA

[AttilaA]

This happened on Shusha-Fuzuli highway, built after the war. 

https://x.com/hikmethajiyev/status/1704040392612614382?s=46

 

 

Edited September 21, 2023 by AttilaA

[glenn239]

5 hours ago, AttilaA said:

?

Legally, Karabakh is territory of Azerbaijan. This is the position of international community. As I said, even Armenia itself (had to) recognize Azerbaijan’s territorial integrity with Karabakh in it.

The Azeris signed a ceasefire agreement in 2020, and the Armenians lived up to their side of the bargain after that, did they not?

[Josh]

28 minutes ago, glenn239 said:

The Azeris signed a ceasefire agreement in 2020, and the Armenians lived up to their side of the bargain after that, did they not?

They apparently subscribe to the Russian definition of the term.

[AttilaA]

1 hour ago, glenn239 said:

The Azeris signed a ceasefire agreement in 2020, and the Armenians lived up to their side of the bargain after that, did they not?

No, they did not.

- Withdrawal of Armenian armed forces from Karabakh. 

Armenians used the vague wording to argue that this didn’t extend to so-called “arsax army”.

This is the main reason why the ceasefire didn’t hold. This “arsax army” continued to fortify positions, dig trenches, plant mines, shoot at Azerbaijani army. Nothing done by Russian peacekepeers.

There are other points Armenia did not uphold:

- Unimpeded road connection between Azerbaijan and Nakhchivan. Armenia has no intention of providing it. Key word: Unimpeded. 

- Misuse of Lachin corridor for non-humanitarian purposes, including transfer of military equipment from Armenia.

Btw, the last part is why Azerbaijan finally installed a border checkpoint at Lachin to stop this.

Edited September 22, 2023 by AttilaA

[AttilaA]

I must also add that the ceasefire agreement did not mean some kind of permanent status quo, although it’s very clear that’s how Armenia and tried to interpret it.

It was supposed to stop the hostilities and faciliate negotiations towards a peace deal between Azerbaijan and Armenia, based on territorial integrity of both countries.  Armenia did state its recognition of Azerbaijan’s territorial integrity in EU mediated talks, but its actions showed something different. 

 

Edited September 22, 2023 by AttilaA

[Markus Becker]

AZ is aiming at southern Armenia to establish a land bridge to its enclave on the turkish border.

 

[JWB]

[Markus Becker]

Now is the time: 

Russia and the USA are distracted in Ukraine, the EU is sucking AZ dick because they got so totally not Russian oil and gas. 

[AttilaA]

I see that reading Lindsey Snell have given you brain damage. 

Imagine unironically, without shame, posting something written by Lindsey Snell. Aliyev do not talk about taking Armenia by military force. Azerbaijan do not export “Russian oil and gas” since it has its own oil and gas to sell. I guess you can prove your words, go on, show us how Azerbaijan is “totally selling Russia oil and gas”, you have totally not read that in some BS tweet from Lindsey Snell.

Go on, the other charlatan that is Neil Hauer should be next. Many others I’m sure, post them all. 

I really don’t care anymore about this hypocricy from Westerners who don’t know wtf they are talking about, but at least be consistent. Apparently Ukraine has the right to fight for its sovereign territories, but not Azerbaijan. Gtfo. 

[Markus Becker]

33 minutes ago, AttilaA said:

I see that reading Lindsey Snell have given you brain damage. 

Imagine unironically, without shame, posting something written by Lindsey Snell. Aliyev do not talk about taking Armenia by military force. Azerbaijan do not export “Russian oil and gas” since it has its own oil and gas to sell. I guess you can prove your words, go on, show us how Azerbaijan is “totally selling Russia oil and gas”, you have totally not read that in some BS tweet from Lindsey Snell.

Go on, the other charlatan that is Neil Hauer should be next. Many others I’m sure, post them all. 

I really don’t care anymore about this hypocricy from Westerners who don’t know wtf they are talking about, but at least be consistent. Apparently Ukraine has the right to fight for its sovereign territories, but not Azerbaijan. Gtfo. 

Like southern Armenia is AZ territory. And FO you too! 

[mandeb48]

On 8/4/2023 at 3:19 PM, mandeb48 said:

OKAY. I guess you are Azerbaijani. I also think that the Republic of Artsakh will disappear relatively soon, but that is not the end of the story, there will continue to be an unfriendly population which an ugly history of ethnic hatred that can lead to revenge. How do you imagine the reintegration will be, with a stick and carrots? more sticks than carrots? promoting the integration of the local population to azerbaijan or happy if they emigrate to a neighboring country....
 
I know nobody has a crystal ball, but how is the feeling of the average Azerbaijani citizen on this issue?

AttilaA. Could you please answer this question please. I live on the other side of the world and I would like to know the opinion of someone from the region.

[JWB]

58 minutes ago, AttilaA said:

show us how Azerbaijan is “totally selling Russia oil and gas”

Not what he wrote. English is often times confusing because multiple pronouns are used too often in run on sentences. 

[JWB]

 

[Roman Alymov]

1 hour ago, JWB said:

May be it is not obvious to foreigners, so: Margarita Simonyan is ethnic Armenian.

[JWB]

3 hours ago, Roman Alymov said:

May be it is not obvious to foreigners, so: Margarita Simonyan is ethnic Armenian.

How did Putin react?

[Roman Alymov]

5 hours ago, JWB said:

How did Putin react?

To the fact that ethnic Armenians are overrepresented in Russian ruling elite, to the extent that Strelkov is complaining about Armenian clan? I do not remember any statements from Putin about that (not surprising, as he is usually staying clear of topics that may harm his pipularity or require some investment of "political capital")

Article from 2021, when number of ethnic Armenians living in Russia surpassed population of Armenia

"There are more Armenians in Russia than in Armenia — what to do with Armenia?!
Question. If Armenians don't need their own country, and they want to live in Russia, (the majority), so join it to Russia — and that's it?! And then it turns out ugly. Spare Homeland. As a spare airfield for cheating husbands and wives.

Over the past ten years, the Armenian Diaspora in Russia has multiplied, and there are 2.9 million Armenians in Russia, while there are about 2.8 million Armenians in Armenia. The creation of the Armenian autonomy is overdue. If not for one thing. Armenians don't want it themselves. It is more convenient for them to live among Russians. Armenians don't really want to live among Armenians either. Otherwise, they would not have left Armenia. Or they were returning to their historical homeland. But they are more comfortable in Russia among Russians.

At the same time, even the criminal news shows how many Armenians there are in Russia. Yesterday, three bailiffs arrived at the <illegaly constructed> house of Vartan Kochyan, an elderly Armenian in his 60s, in Russia. For the demolition of his house. He opened fire on the employees. The deceased bailiffs are Makivasyan and Azyazyan. One Armenian managed to escape. Vartan Kochian walked around with an unregistered gun over the bodies. And was detained after a while. Russia. Yes. Sochi. (all names mentioned here are Armenian - RA)

Amazing life hack.

There is no need to fight with anyone. Moving the whole country to Russia. And you live among Russians, which is comfortable and convenient. Because Russians are kind and hospitable people. Well, everyone is welcome, of course. And after a while it is not quite clear where your country is and where Armenia is. Some [eople fear Chinese invasions. But other nations also choose Russia.

But at the same time, the question arises, if the trend continues, what to do with Armenia in fact?! In another 10 years, there will already be 4 million Armenians in Russia, and 2 million in Armenia — the decline of Armenians there is obvious. They are leaving the country. Then there will be 10 million Armenians in Russia. And in Armenia — only a million. So, maybe, I repeat, if they don't need their own country, and they want to live in Russia, let's join it to Russia?!

At the same time, I like Armenians. Not those who appear in the criminal chronicle, but those who live in Russia. I have an Armenian friend, and Garik Martirosyan, for example, is very sympathetic to me. He also lives in our country, but periodically there. It's as if they, the Russian Armenians, have a spare Homeland. 

At the same time, there is another interesting point. The population census is taking place several years ago. And young citizens who grew up in Armenian families in Russia, some of whom were born here, report that they are Russians. A documented fact. You can say anything during the census. That is, the father is Armenian. Mom is Armenian. Although often a Russian woman. The children are Russian. Do not belittle the importance of the "melting pot" of assimilation. This is the case in the USA and Europe — difficulties with assimilation, the country of emigrants and the wrong emigration policy when resettlement occurs by districts and regions. And in Russia, the culture is so powerful, apparently, that everyone turns into Russians in the next generation, which is facilitated by the mixing of bloodlines.

Welcome, Armenians. It is wonderful that there are so many Armenians in Russia. But then what will we do with Armenia?!" ( https://ilyavaliev.livejournal.com/8919397.html?ysclid=lmvoh6rev3877254757 )

Edited September 23, 2023 by Roman Alymov

[JWB]

7 hours ago, Roman Alymov said:

I do not remember any statements from Putin about that ...........

If Putin does not refute that statement then what they said is Kremlin official policy. How does that policy affect Armenia?

[Roman Alymov]

20 minutes ago, JWB said:

If Putin does not refute that statement then what they said is Kremlin official policy. How does that policy affect Armenia?

I am not following this topic closely (since what Kremlin is saying got little real importance, important are actions) - but as far as i remember it is usual "We are following our obligations of ally of Armenia, and it got nothing to do with events in AZ". Since some time ago Armenia have officially recognised NK as AZ territory (to sort of dismay of "Kremlin" - sort of "What was then the sence of all this nonsence for 30 years") it is quite logical position, but everybody understand Armenia is becoming another vasal state of US (or, to be more correct, liberal/neocon fraction of US elite). That is logical result of the thrend that was on for last decade or so. Can't say by the way it is against Russian interests - now we could have better relations with AZ, AZ will be less dependent on Turkey (as without NK problem hanging on, Turkey is far less important ally for them), it may boost land route to both Turkey and Iran. Armenia was Russian Empire legacy, it can't last forever.

[JWB]

15 minutes ago, Roman Alymov said:

Armenia is becoming another vasal state of US  ......

Impossible. Armenia has no oil.

[Roman Alymov]

2 hours ago, JWB said:

Impossible. Armenia has no oil.

Yes, but it is located in the region where they could strategically block oil/NG export from Central Asia to Turkey or Europe, also it is separating Turkey from Turkish-speaking regions of Cental Asia (and Russia) and also potentially threatening communications between Russia and Iran.

[glenn239]

I can understand why Armenia might want the Americans, but what does Armenia bring to the table for the Americans, other than the usual weak damsel in distress bit?

[sunday]

3 minutes ago, glenn239 said:

I can understand why Armenia might want the Americans, but what does Armenia bring to the table for the Americans, other than the usual weak damsel in distress bit?

Kardashians?

[JWB]

6 hours ago, Roman Alymov said:

Yes, but it is located in the region where they could strategically block oil/NG export from Central Asia to Turkey or Europe, also it is separating Turkey from Turkish-speaking regions of Cental Asia (and Russia) and also potentially threatening communications between Russia and Iran.

USA has no interest in doing any of that.