Armenia Azerbaijan Conflict

[urbanoid]

Oh, she's fully aware of that. If she can negotiate something to let the Armenians 'save face' while the Russians left them hung to dry, it will be a big blow to Russian prestige and the whole CSTO idea.

[Yama]

Russia is just exercising realpolitik: supporting Armenia is all cool and stuff, but would they really throw away all their relations with Azerbaijan and Turkey just for them? Nah. It's pretty much the same thing as with US and the Kurds. We really like you, but your enemies, we need.

And lets be frank: what can Armenia offer to USA, which would be worth for similar tradeoff? Absolutely zilch.

[DB]

PPP values are irrelevant when buying foreign equipment. It's real dollars or actual equivalent values or nothing.

[urbanoid]

A demonstration/protest in Yerevan, Armenian, American and Ukraine flags can be seen, the protesters demand to leave CSTO.

 

[Yama]

Meanwhile, Pelosi attacked Azerbaijan in her speech, which is a surprising twist, as Azerbaijan is much more US-aligned than Armenia, and much more important politically. Maybe she just wanted to snub the Sultan indirectly?

[glenn239]

1 hour ago, Yama said:

Meanwhile, Pelosi attacked Azerbaijan in her speech, which is a surprising twist, as Azerbaijan is much more US-aligned than Armenia, and much more important politically. Maybe she just wanted to snub the Sultan indirectly?

If the Democrats are making anti-Azeri noises, I would guess it's about international norms, that the Azeris are seen as the aggressors.

[AttilaA]

Azerbaijan is not really US-aligned. Yes it’s not a CSTO member, but Azerbaijani-Russian relations have changed since 90s and 2000s. Azerbaijan and Russia signed “declaration on allied interaction” in early 2022 (before the Ukrainian invasion). Both countries pledge to respect each other’s territorial integrity, defence cooperation etc.

Overall, Azerbaijan pursues a balanced foreign policy. Relations with EU is really purely economic (export of oil and gas). Not sure what kind of relations there is with US, I don’t see much. Especially not after Pelosi visit and statements. 

Edited September 18, 2022 by AttilaA

[AttilaA]

1 hour ago, glenn239 said:

If the Democrats are making anti-Azeri noises, I would guess it's about international norms, that the Azeris are seen as the aggressors.

Meanwhile those international norms were ignored by everyone for 30 years when Armenia occupied Azerbaijani territories larger than Lebanon in size, including territories outside of former NKAO, displaced hundreds of thousands of Azerbaijanis, razed every Azerbaijani settlement into ground. Settlements were occupied mostly intact fyi, they stripped the buildings during post-war period. 

Azerbaijan throws a rock at Armenia and suddenly everyone remembers “international norms”.

What remains of Agdam, which had 30k population:

(same picture in every Azerbaijani settlement that were occupied)

Not surprised by those statements given she was accompanied by the likes of Frank Pallone. 
 

https://armenianweekly.com/2019/10/01/pallone-i-am-here-because-i-want-to-make-it-clear-that-artsakh-is-a-state-a-democratic-nation/

Edited September 18, 2022 by AttilaA

[JWB]

1 hour ago, glenn239 said:

If the Democrats are making anti-Azeri noises, I would guess it's about international norms, that the Azeris are seen as the aggressors.

Saint Nancy of Pelosi et al are just virtue signaling to the tiny Armenian population in the USA. 

[AttilaA]

Azerbaijan MFA:

Nancy Pelosi's groundless and unfair accusations against Azerbaijan are unacceptable 

https://en.trend.az/azerbaijan/politics/3645996.html

 

Edited September 18, 2022 by AttilaA

[sunday]

3 hours ago, JWB said:

Saint Nancy of Pelosi et al are just virtue signaling to the tiny Armenian population in the USA. 

Tiny but with large exposure, Kardashians come to mind.

Edited September 18, 2022 by sunday

[Yama]

5 hours ago, AttilaA said:

Azerbaijan is not really US-aligned. Yes it’s not a CSTO member, but Azerbaijani-Russian relations have changed since 90s and 2000s. Azerbaijan and Russia signed “declaration on allied interaction” in early 2022 (before the Ukrainian invasion). Both countries pledge to respect each other’s territorial integrity, defence cooperation etc.

Overall, Azerbaijan pursues a balanced foreign policy. Relations with EU is really purely economic (export of oil and gas). Not sure what kind of relations there is with US, I don’t see much. Especially not after Pelosi visit and statements. 

Azerbaijan was pretty important to USA during WoT. It's true there is maybe not that much direct involvement anymore, though AZ main backers are very US-aligned (or maybe 'were', in case of Turkey). Meanwhile, Armenia aligned with Iran...

But sure thing, superpower positions in Artsakh conflict are complicated and no doubt both would like to see things going back to 'old' ASAP.

[urbanoid]

It's either some "masterplan" or an absolute brainfart on Washington's part.

[Roman Alymov]

On 9/17/2022 at 11:05 PM, AttilaA said:

Pelosi is visiting Armenia.

Someone must not have told her and the delegation that Armenia is a member of CSTO and hosts Russian military bases.

Armenia also got world's second largest US Embassy (after one in Iraq), with about 2.5k diplomats in it (it makes 1 US diplomat per 1000 Armenians). For comparison, there is about 4k RusArmy serviceman in Armenia, so the numbers are not much different....

[Roman Alymov]

18 minutes ago, Yama said:

But sure thing, superpower positions in Artsakh conflict are complicated and no doubt both would like to see things going back to 'old' ASAP.

Some commenters in Russia believe it is in Russian interest to see AZ making land corridor to Turley (pteferably with rail link). It will give Russia land rail link to Turkey in addition to planed land rail link with Iran. 

[Yama]

But that would trigger the CSTO Article 4, no? War in Artsakh is beyond its mandate, but invading Armenian soil directly is different matter.

[R011]

5 hours ago, JWB said:

Saint Nancy of Pelosi et al are just virtue signaling to the tiny Armenian population in the USA. 

There are probably a lot more Armenians in the US than Azeris and the American Armenians community seems to have done well there.  As victims of a genocide, Armenians also have a lot of sympathy points.

To be honest, and with respect to pro-Azeri posters here, I don't know enough about the conflict to be able to say who is at fault if anyone.  I wouldn't be surprised if Pelosi doesn't either, and I wonder what the official State Department position happens to be.

[Daan]

12 hours ago, Roman Alymov said:

Armenia also got world's second largest US Embassy (after one in Iraq), with about 2.5k diplomats in it (it makes 1 US diplomat per 1000 Armenians). For comparison, there is about 4k RusArmy serviceman in Armenia, so the numbers are not much different....

According to the website of the US foreign service the plot of 23 acres is indeed grand, but there is only 400 American and Armenian staff at the Yerevan embassy.

[AttilaA]

Pashinyan is trying to backtrack on verbal agreements.

 

 

 

[AttilaA]

Something similar was stated by Aliyev recently;

 

 

 

 

[JWB]

2 hours ago, AttilaA said:

Pashinyan, Aliyev

No wonder those two nations have so many troubles.

[Roman Alymov]

20 hours ago, Yama said:

But that would trigger the CSTO Article 4, no? War in Artsakh is beyond its mandate, but invading Armenian soil directly is different matter.

That is exactly why if US will somehow convince Armenia to leave security agreement - i think there will be sight of relief in Rus Gov. AM not only became burden, but annoying burden who complain about being occupied by barbaric Rus Army when creative class in Erevan forget about "turks" nearby.

[Roman Alymov]

8 hours ago, Daan said:

According to the website of the US foreign service the plot of 23 acres is indeed grand, but there is only 400 American and Armenian staff at the Yerevan embassy.

May be other offices also calculated

https://www.azatutyun.am/a/1576847.html

The United States spoke of its “long-term commitment” to close relations with Armenia on Friday as it officially opened a new embassy complex in Yerevan, one of the largest U.S. diplomatic missions abroad.

Work on the facility occupying 90,000 square meters of land on the southern outskirts of Yerevan began about four years ago and, according to U.S. embassy officials, has cost $76 million. The U.S. government, by comparison, has spent $40 million on its new embassy in Ukraine, a country much bigger and populous than Armenia.

[bojan]

2 hours ago, JWB said:

No wonder those two nations have so many troubles.

That conflict is older than USA statehood.

Edited September 19, 2022 by bojan

[Roman Alymov]

12 minutes ago, bojan said:

That conflict is older than USA statehood.

But compared to AM rivalry with Persians it is relatively young - still, now Iranians are to some extent on AM side, despite huge number of ethnic Azeri in Iran.... Common enemy makes miracles.