Armenia Azerbaijan Conflict

[RETAC21]

33 minutes ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

So what likely happened is they slipped him the information an important weapon system was crap, wait for him to release it, then use it as an opportunity to cut the legs off him and have him replaced.

Or indeed the Iskanders are in fact crap, and they are struggling to cover it up. Or even conceivably both.

 

Where DID I put my popcorn?

Yet they worked in Georgia... lack of maintenance?

[Mistral]

Stuartitis.  Its the only explanation

[Yama]

On 2/24/2021 at 12:49 PM, AttilaA said:

Azerbaijan MOD shared video footage of Su-25 (laser guided bombs) and helicopter (Spike NLOS) strikes from Second Karabakh War.

What Su-25 versions they operate? Wikipedia claims Su-25T, but surely that cannot be right.

[Stuart Galbraith]

2 hours ago, Mistral said:

Stuartitis.  Its the only explanation

Ah, you are growing an extra frontal lobe, and developing a feeling of omnipotence? Could be!   

Russian MOD angrily retorts it's iskander had proven perfectly accurate against Syrian Hospitals.....er..um....

 

[Stuart Galbraith]

4 hours ago, RETAC21 said:

Yet they worked in Georgia... lack of maintenance?

Wasn't that Tochka?

[RETAC21]

2 hours ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

Wasn't that Tochka?

Dutch said Iskander: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/296811650_Russia_used_'Iskander'_missiles_in_Georgia_conflict_claims_Dutch_report

[Stuart Galbraith]

That's very interesting, thank you.

[Adam Peter]

20 hours ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

Ah, you are growing an extra frontal lobe, and developing a feeling of omnipotence? Could be!   

Russian MOD angrily retorts it's iskander had proven perfectly accurate against Syrian Hospitals.....er..um....

Hello Mr. BBC, would you please include the third part of the tweet chain from the original guy?

[AttilaA]

22 hours ago, Yama said:

What Su-25 versions they operate? Wikipedia claims Su-25T, but surely that cannot be right.

As far as I know, the Azerbaijani Su-25 fleet consists of aircrafts innherited from Soviet Union and others purchased from Belarus and (primarily) Georgia in 2000s. I just checked Wikipedia and Azerbaijan's Su-25 fleet is listed as "12" which is not true, the number of Su-25s purchased from Georgia alone is bigger than that.

Here is an article about purchase of 15 Su-25s from Georgia alongside documentation for their maintaince etc (and this was not the first Su-25 purchase from Georgia afaikO)

https://bmpd.livejournal.com/1417171.html

Defence Minister mentioned few years ago that the Su-25s were being upgraded by a Turkish company (which must be Aselsan). They also received Talisman ECM suite from Belarus (alongside Mig-29).

 

[AttilaA]

The laser guided bombs employed by Su-25 in the war was QFAB-250 LG, a joint project between Azerbaijan and Aselsan with the integration of Aselsan Laser Guidance Kit on Azerbaijani produced general purpose bombs.

The laser designation on targets are done by TB2 drones.

Edited February 27, 2021 by AttilaA

[Stuart Galbraith]

Su25T never went into production as far as I know, much to the irritation of Eagle Dynamics.

3 hours ago, Adam Peter said:

Hello Mr. BBC, would you please include the third part of the tweet chain from the original guy?

So does anyone want to say 'Gee Stuart, I guess you were completely right the Russian armed forces were bombing hospitals in Syria!' Hmm?

Nah soddit, it's obviously another Bellingcat deep fake.

[glenn239]

Sorry, I thought you were banging on the Iskander being a fake missile? 

[Stuart Galbraith]

Well it was either that or Siebel ferries, and I find iskander easier to spell.

 

[Yama]

8 hours ago, AttilaA said:

The laser guided bombs employed by Su-25 in the war was QFAB-250 LG, a joint project between Azerbaijan and Aselsan with the integration of Aselsan Laser Guidance Kit on Azerbaijani produced general purpose bombs.

The laser designation on targets are done by TB2 drones.

Thanks, very interesting. Have not heard of the Talisman pod before, that placement seems innovative: saves you a hardpoint basically.

Has there been any official confirmation or claim about Armenian Su-25 shot down early in the war, which was claimed to be attacked by Turkish F-16?

Edited February 27, 2021 by Yama

[Adam Peter]

8 hours ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

So does anyone want to say 'Gee Stuart, I guess you were completely right the Russian armed forces were bombing hospitals in Syria!' Hmm?

So it was your Twitter account that shared CIT's tweet? Yes, abandoned hospitals, as is written above.

I find it interesting that the common wisdom is that mines are designed to injure, not to kill but an army would deliberately aims at hospitals, where said injured bogs down human resources. From another angle, I am sure the Russians did everything to spare water, food, medical material for prolonged Daesh resistance by killing the incapacitated.

[Simon Tan]

The charity on this thread is so heartwarming. You are so kind towards the village madman. On a more interesting note, I understand the Tblisi plant is barely producing anything.

[Stuart Galbraith]

8 hours ago, Adam Peter said:

So it was your Twitter account that shared CIT's tweet? Yes, abandoned hospitals, as is written above.

I find it interesting that the common wisdom is that mines are designed to injure, not to kill but an army would deliberately aims at hospitals, where said injured bogs down human resources. From another angle, I am sure the Russians did everything to spare water, food, medical material for prolonged Daesh resistance by killing the incapacitated.

So what I think you are saying is, the important thing is that it was an apparently evacuated hospital, rather than just a hospital. Although I think you will find,the laws governing this kind of thing dont recognise any appreciable difference. And it is as we have seen, not as if Russia wasnt also attacking ones that were occupied at the same time.

https://time.com/4314276/aleppo-hospital-attack/

3 hours ago, Simon Tan said:

The charity on this thread is so heartwarming. You are so kind towards the village madman. On a more interesting note, I understand the Tblisi plant is barely producing anything.

Oh look, its the man who applauded Russia's participation in the Syrian war by asserting the war would be over in months because Russia Stronk. So tell me, how do you feel about that now? 

[Adam Peter]

1 hour ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

Although I think you will find,the laws governing this kind of thing dont recognise any appreciable difference.

I am insensitive due to our history where we parallel are proud of our 1956 heroes who tricked the Soviet by carrying weapons in ambulance cars, and mourn the crew of the ambulance car shot to pieces on the Andrássy street.

So Geneva conventions and Red Cross is recognized until both party plays according to the rulebook.

Contrast that with Kunduz.

[Stuart Galbraith]

55 minutes ago, Adam Peter said:

I am insensitive due to our history where we parallel are proud of our 1956 heroes who tricked the Soviet by carrying weapons in ambulance cars, and mourn the crew of the ambulance car shot to pieces on the Andrássy street.

So Geneva conventions and Red Cross is recognized until both party plays according to the rulebook.

Contrast that with Kunduz.

All sides have done it. I know the RAF happily shot down Red Cross marked Heinkel floatplanes in the Battle of Britain, because they had the temerity to swoop down and rescue Luftwaffe pilots in the drink and put them back in a Me109 or Heinkel and backin action again.

OTOH, if you think the post cold war environment was going to be a period of letting the past bethe past, clearly some are on message and others are not. And its not as if the Kremlin doesnt get the message,or they wouldnt feel the need to have lied so much about it. The message here is 'We will lie about anything, until we see an excuse not to', which in itself is no surprise after Putin belatedly owned up to the green men being Russian special forces.

 

 

[Mighty_Zuk]

3 hours ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

So what I think you are saying is, the important thing is that it was an apparently evacuated hospital, rather than just a hospital. Although I think you will find,the laws governing this kind of thing dont recognise any appreciable difference. And it is as we have seen, not as if Russia wasnt also attacking ones that were occupied at the same time.

https://time.com/4314276/aleppo-hospital-attack/

Oh look, its the man who applauded Russia's participation in the Syrian war by asserting the war would be over in months because Russia Stronk. So tell me, how do you feel about that now? 

True, it being evacuated makes it less immoral, but in the case where a hospital, or any other public building/infrastructure is used as a military asset of any kind, it becomes a legitimate target.

Russia would not be under investigation, but if they were I assume they'd provide proof it was used for military purposes. They don't have the same moral standards we have in the west, but they're not monsters, and I'm confident they would not attack a hospital for shits and giggles, especially when it requires very expensive missiles and scarcely available drones.

[Adam Peter]

5 hours ago, Mighty_Zuk said:

True, it being evacuated makes it less immoral, but in the case where a hospital, or any other public building/infrastructure is used as a military asset of any kind, it becomes a legitimate target.

Russia would not be under investigation, but if they were I assume they'd provide proof it was used for military purposes. They don't have the same moral standards we have in the west, but they're not monsters, and I'm confident they would not attack a hospital for shits and giggles, especially when it requires very expensive missiles and scarcely available drones.

I fully agree with you. Only add to that the Assad-Putin coalition fought for ruling the country, but what rule worth if there is no one to rule over. They went far more for hearts and minds than anything else under that banner. Including optional leave of the city for those who hated Assad.

[Roman Alymov]

To bring discussion back to topic from usual “how evil is Russia”  - let me direct you to my earlier post of AZ forces bombing fully operating AM hospital

 

Nobody care, of course – since there is no way to blame it on Russia.

[Stuart Galbraith]

20 hours ago, Mighty_Zuk said:

True, it being evacuated makes it less immoral, but in the case where a hospital, or any other public building/infrastructure is used as a military asset of any kind, it becomes a legitimate target.

Russia would not be under investigation, but if they were I assume they'd provide proof it was used for military purposes. They don't have the same moral standards we have in the west, but they're not monsters, and I'm confident they would not attack a hospital for shits and giggles, especially when it requires very expensive missiles and scarcely available drones.

 

If they can happily carpet bomb a city through cloud with a Tu22M, I think we have to revise our expectations on what standards they have. Not to mention Salisbury.

[Roman Alymov]

1 hour ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

 

If they can happily carpet bomb a city through cloud with a Tu22M, I think we have to revise our expectations on what standards they have. 

This city?

 

Victory through annihilation: Ruin, death & discord left after US-led coalition takes Raqqa — RT World News

1 hour ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

 Not to mention Salisbury.

With all Salisbury magic....

 

P.S. 

 

Edited March 1, 2021 by Roman Alymov

[Roman Alymov]

More of high moral standards

US, Britain and France inflicted worst destruction 'in decades' killing civilians in Isis-held city of Raqqa, report says | The Independent | The Independent