Brexit

[Panzermann]

 

 

What has Europe ever done for us?

 

You (and Jean Luc) do know that the ECHR isn't actually anything to do with the EU and actually predates it, yes?

 

BillB

Yes, of course EU != Europe. But the ECHR is part of the many other treaties that make up modern Europe inside and outside the union. And there are people lobbying for brexiting the ECHR as well:

After Theresa May says Britain should leave the European convention on human rights, Patrick Stewart, Adrian Scarborough and Sarah Solemani expose the problems in the Conservative plan for

a UK bill of rights.

(from the video description)

 

 

 

The modified sketch is entertaining nonetheless.

Edited April 27, 2016 by Panzermann

[Panzermann]

Errrr....all that existed before the European rubbish. Low information viewing. Good God...the Magna Carta anyone?

ehm, the Magna Charta was about nobility's rights not civil or human rights. It guaranteed the barons' rights towards the king and an independent english church iirc. A first step on a long road.

[DB]

Whilst that is true, it still acts as an underlying framework for what followed. The progression of the codification of rights from Baronial rights to landowner rights and then to universal rights has been something of a continuous process, after all.

 

Apparently the rights enacted in the first Magna Carta are pretty much all gone now. Later revisions are more closely followed.

[Simon Tan]

The model bequeathed to Europe is Anglo-Saxon. The Continent prefers Robespierre or Napoleon.

[Ivanhoe]

I know zilch about the ECHR, but found this interesting;

 

http://capx.co/the-case-against-the-european-convention-on-human-rights/

 

I’ll say it one more time. No one has a problem with the prohibition of torture, the right to a fair trial or any of the other things offered by the European Convention. Our problem, rather, is with judges who frequently rule on the basis of what they think the law ought to say rather than what it says. In the words of the current British judge at the ECHR, a lifelong Eurocrat called Paul Mahoney: “The open textured language and the structure of the Convention leave the Court significant opportunities for choice in interpretation. In exercising that choice, particularly when faced with changed circumstances and attitudes in society, the Court makes new law.”

 

If I were a resident of the British Isles, much less continental Yurrop, I would be concerned about the kangaroo court tendencies of that ilk;

 

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/224690/idiots-guide-completely-idiotic-canadian-human-rights-tribunals-mark-hemingway

[Stuart Galbraith]

Mind you, its a bit rich us Brits complaining about wide open legal technicalities open to interpretation, when the nearest we have ever had to a bill of rights is something somebody knocked up on a cows arse 800 years ago to keep the Barons quiet.

 

I guess what im saying is, maybe before we start lecturing the Europeans, we might want to try and get our own house in order first? Because everyone we complain of, from unelected politicians, to equivocal legal in-exactitude are problems we pretty much invented.

[swerve]

No, we had a Bill of Rights in 1689 - "An Act Declaring the Rights and Liberties of the Subject and Settling the Succession of the Crown." It's more about Parliament's rights than everyone else, but it does have provisions about juries, no 'cruel and unusual punishments' (that's where the USians got it from), etc.

 

The issuers of the later French & USian laws & declarations were entirely explicit about looking back to it.

Edited April 27, 2016 by swerve

[Stuart Galbraith]

I stand corrected, but that doesn't sound like much of an expansion on Magna Carta. You compare and contrast with what the Yanks have done with the same bedrock (and made the Judiciary the centre of their legislature) you begin to think we have been just a wee bit tardy down the years. So much so you wonder why we are so lecturing of the Europeans.

 

Im not really in favour of tearing magna carta up I might add. But a Magna Carta Mk3 or Mk4 might be high time about now I cant help but think.

[Soren Ras]

I’ll say it one more time. No one has a problem with the prohibition of torture, the right to a fair trial or any of the other things offered by the European Convention. Our problem, rather, is with judges who frequently rule on the basis of what they think the law ought to say rather than what it says. In the words of the current British judge at the ECHR, a lifelong Eurocrat called Paul Mahoney: “The open textured language and the structure of the Convention leave the Court significant opportunities for choice in interpretation. In exercising that choice, particularly when faced with changed circumstances and attitudes in society, the Court makes new law.”

 

If I were a resident of the British Isles, much less continental Yurrop, I would be concerned about the kangaroo court tendencies of that ilk;

 

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/224690/idiots-guide-completely-idiotic-canadian-human-rights-tribunals-mark-hemingway

 

 

Yes. It has been quite apparent for a good while that conventions are being interpreted increasingly towards areas and meanings that none of the original writers would have imagined (much less the various nations and politicians who signed them). And not so coincidentally these reinterpretations support the transnational set and their inclinations (i.e. more power to them and international institutions like the EU, less to the national states).

 

There is a growing sense that conventions like ECHR, the convention against torture, etc. unless they can be brought back under control, must be abandoned, since there are phalanxes of lefties and opportunistic lawyers using them to argue that national borders are tantamount to a war crime, since they are intended to keep people out and deny them their unlimited rights to have equal share of everything the citizens have.

 

It is of course a pity that any good done by these conventions (as originally intended) will take a hit in the process, but that is the road laid out for us.

 

--

Soren

[Adam_S]

So, how have Australia, New Zealand, Canada and the USA managed to have a right to privacy, freedom from slavery, the right to a fair trial and the rest without being in the European Convention on Human Rights?

[Soren Ras]

It's a mystery

 

--

Soren

[BansheeOne]

If we can make Cricket compulsory in all European schools under an EU directive then It would clearly be for their own good by turning the Continent into Gentlemen.

 

Incidentally I saw an article today that German cricket clubs, which usually struggle to field a full team, are experiencing an upswing because of ... Afghan refugees. Apparently under the Taleban, cricket was the only team sport that was allowed, which made it widely popular. Even though the article also noted that people know little about the rules beyond the throwing, hitting and running part.

[DB]

The Afghanistan cricket team is a second tier team internationally at limited overs cricket (They're better than Scotland, which shouldn't be a surprise as the best UK players tend to play for "England". this includes all our South Africans and Zimbabweans. It's complicated, get over it.)

[Panzermann]

more than thirty years of civil war may also have an impact on training and playing cricket. Or football or any other sport really.

[FlyingCanOpener]

True fact: Afghanistan's cricket board is better organized than the US', which is currently banned by the ICC for continuous irregularities related to the fact that the board is in a 3-way tussle between immigrant groups from the West Indies, India, and Pakistan.

[Panzermann]

True fact: Afghanistan's cricket board is better organized than the US', which is currently banned by the ICC for continuous irregularities related to the fact that the board is in a 3-way tussle between immigrant groups from the West Indies, India, and Pakistan.

 

And I thought it was a gentlemen's sport.

[Stuart Galbraith]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36219612

 

The UK would be "better off without" the European Union, US presidential hopeful Donald Trump has said.

He told Fox News the migration crisis had been a "horrible thing for Europe" and blamed the EU for driving it.

The Republican said he was not making a "recommendation" but his "feeling" was that the UK should vote to sever ties with the EU in its 23 June referendum.

Democratic President Barack Obama expressed support for the UK remaining in the EU last month.

Mr Trump, who has emerged as the Republican presumptive nominee for the US presidency, told Fox News: "I think the migration has been a horrible thing for Europe, a lot of that was pushed by the EU.

"I would say [the UK] are better off without [the EU], personally, but I'm not making that as a recommendation, just my feeling.

"I know Great Britain very well, I know the country very well, I have a lot of investments there."

He added: "I want them to make their own decision."

In April, Mr Obama said Britain would go to the "back of the queue" for trade deals with the US if it votes to leave the European Union, sparking anger among Leave campaigners in the UK.

He said Britain was at its best when "helping to lead" a strong EU and membership made it a "bigger player" on the world stage.

 

 

If that doesnt convince anyone staying in is a good idea, well, I guess nothing will.

Edited May 6, 2016 by Stuart Galbraith

[DB]

Trump as President is going to pose some interesting questions for Scotland, given their recent behaviour regarding his golf course endeavours.

[Ssnake]

If that doesnt convince anyone staying in is a good idea, well, I guess nothing will.

 

Don't doubt de Drumpf.

[Stuart Galbraith]

Trump as President is going to pose some interesting questions for Scotland, given their recent behaviour regarding his golf course endeavours.

 

For some reason, when I think of Trump and Scottish Golfcourses, Jedburgh from the BBC version of 'Edge of Darkness' continually springs to mind. Perhaps is the bad hair, or the obsession with nuclear proliferation that does it.

[Panzermann]

 

 

The European Union always was a CIA

project, as Brexiteers discover (the telegraph)

 

ehm

[Ivanhoe]

The European Union always was a CIA

project, as Brexiteers discover (the telegraph)

 

ehm

 

So Britain is really just a social construct with good marketing? Or is Britain's "history" merely a manipulation of these guys?

 

[Marek Tucan]

Well, "Who controls the English crown..."

[sunday]

Most important question: Are we getting Gibraltar back?

[Stuart Galbraith]

Most important question: Are we getting Gibraltar back?

You remember those NRA bumper stickers with 'From my cold, dead hands!'