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Corinthian
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I like the "let's take back control" on the photo of a campaign bus in the bbc article. So ironic. ^_^

 

And no brit rebate anymore. Sorry no money back. Full price now and not even a say in any matter effectively affecting the UK.

 


 

I just heard that there is an initiative in parliament to bring back HMS Britannia into service. Yes, in the age of jet planes they want to travel the empire by ship. :rolleyes:

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That depends on what type of ship HMS Britannia will be. Earlier ships of that name have been ships of the line, pre-Dreadnoughts, training ships, and wasn't there even a royal yacht?

 

Build a new cruiser, battleship or carrier and I daresay many anglophiles will nod in appreciation.

 

Or maybe it will be a trade-delegation showcase for what remains of British industrial capacity. Or an NHS hospital ship as a mobile NHS succor unit, ever sailing around to give aid to whichever part of Britain is most in need of some temporary capacity boost.

 

 

Edit: Oh, crikey. I assumed they were talking about building something new, not refurbishing the old yacht. Silly me.,

 

--

Soren

Edited by Soren Ras
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The news that should shock no-one. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-37627308

Don't really see anything in there to shock anyone, given that the alleged cabinet minister remains anonymous and it is all "may" and "quite a lot"... :rolleyes: Just more BBC straw grasping on behalf of the cry baby Remainers.

 

BillB.

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Norwegians, lord bless em, were very explicit in pointing all this out. And it was all ignored in the politics of handwavium.

Indeed, I also recall some Norwegians kindly coming over here on the tellybox warning of the pitfalls of EU membership and the underhand tricks played on them by their EU zealots. Strangely enough that wasn't ignored by handwavium, unlike the spurious comparisons of the UK economy ( 5th largest in the world) with Norway (27th/28th/30th depending on measure). Folk used to laugh at Alec Salmond when he did that, and rightly so.

 

BillB

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That depends on what type of ship HMS Britannia will be. Earlier ships of that name have been ships of the line, pre-Dreadnoughts, training ships, and wasn't there even a royal yacht?

 

Build a new cruiser, battleship or carrier and I daresay many anglophiles will nod in appreciation.

 

Or maybe it will be a trade-delegation showcase for what remains of British industrial capacity. Or an NHS hospital ship as a mobile NHS succor unit, ever sailing around to give aid to whichever part of Britain is most in need of some temporary capacity boost.

 

 

Edit: Oh, crikey. I assumed they were talking about building something new, not refurbishing the old yacht. Silly me.,

 

--

Soren

Saw some discussion on this on another forum that involved folk who had served on Britannia. Leaving aside that she appears to have been badly neglected since being moored up, apparently the problem is with the engines. They were pretty much obsolete when installed and were built in place so removing them would involve pretty much dismantling the vessel. So I think a new build would be the only option. Mebbe they could use one of the new aircraft carriers as they don't have any aircraft for them...

 

BillB

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Funny thing though, if the Brexiters had suggested UK industry would do so well by the pound collapsing for voting Brexit, I might actually have voted for it. Which suggests the Brexit dream team was a clueless about what was going to happen as everyone else.

 

For example, Farage made his fortune working in financial institutions. Financial institutions what are now going to be shafted when we have a hard Brexit because they cant trade in the Euro. Well conceived?

Like pretty much like everything in British politics, its been thought up on the back of a fag packet. And predictably the only good that seems achieved has been a side effect absolutely nobody predicted. :D

 

5th largest in the world? Which sounds great, right up to the point when you realise we are just barely ahead of Mexico in exporting. It doesnt matter how well the city of London does, if that doesnt translate into increased prosperity in the other 9/10ths of the nation, what good is it?

Edited by Stuart Galbraith
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I like the "let's take back control" on the photo of a campaign bus in the bbc article. So ironic. ^_^

 

And no brit rebate anymore. Sorry no money back. Full price now and not even a say in any matter effectively affecting the UK.

 


 

I just heard that there is an initiative in parliament to bring back HMS Britannia into service. Yes, in the age of jet planes they want to travel the empire by ship. :rolleyes:

Well to be fair mate I can see why the idea of controlling your own borders might be a bit of a novelty to you, given your historic and ongoing contempt for such niceties. I bet you get all moist in the panties everytime you clap eyes on some Remainian nonsense like that ludicrous BBC "report" but the reality is we won't need a Brit rebate because we won't be paying in any more. Which means you and the French, being pretty much the only EU states with sufficiently large & stable economies to carry the rest, best brace yourselves to make up the hole in the EU budget the removal of the UK payments will create.

 

Ref the Royal Yacht Brittania, you really really don't understand diplomacy, do you. :rolleyes: Nobody does pomp and ceremony like the Brits, and foreign leaders, dignitaries and businessmen provenly love that kind of stuff. Which do you think would be more conducive to successful political or business negotiations, being entertained in luxurious surroundings with a Royal Marine band playing, or a sandwich in an anonymous airport cafeteria?

 

BillB

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Like pretty much like everything in British politics, its been thought up on the back of a fag packet. And predictably the only good that seems achieved has been a side effect absolutely nobody predicted. :D

 

Not everything was as bad. the world wars have been run quite well and with a plan. But yes, My impression as well, that most things happened rather despite what No.10 and Parliament enacted than because of it.

 

5th largest in the world? Which sounds great, right up to the point when you realise we are just barely ahead of Mexico in exporting. It doesnt matter how well the city of London does, if that doesnt translate into increased prosperity in the other 9/10ths of the nation, what good is it?

That right there is the problem. And that is why people are angry. And rightly so. But they direct this anger at "those dirty furriners", when actually this problem is home grown.

 

And these problems you have across all of europe to a degree and people default back to what they believe will help, that is nationalism. And in the end it looks more like a decoy to me to distract the masses from those actually responsible.

 

 

Hence my misguided emotions comment a few pages back.

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I like the "let's take back control" on the photo of a campaign bus in the bbc article. So ironic. ^_^

 

And no brit rebate anymore. Sorry no money back. Full price now and not even a say in any matter effectively affecting the UK.

 


 

I just heard that there is an initiative in parliament to bring back HMS Britannia into service. Yes, in the age of jet planes they want to travel the empire by ship. :rolleyes:

Well to be fair mate I can see why the idea of controlling your own borders might be a bit of a novelty to you, given your historic and ongoing contempt for such niceties. I bet you get all moist in the panties everytime you clap eyes on some Remainian nonsense like that ludicrous BBC "report" but the reality is we won't need a Brit rebate because we won't be paying in any more. Which means you and the French, being pretty much the only EU states with sufficiently large & stable economies to carry the rest, best brace yourselves to make up the hole in the EU budget the removal of the UK payments will create.

How much of a problem this going to create nobody really knows and seems hard to estimate.

 

And no thanks, You may prefer frilly panties, but do not infer your preferences onto others.

 

 

Ref the Royal Yacht Brittania, you really really don't understand diplomacy, do you. :rolleyes: Nobody does pomp and ceremony like the Brits, and foreign leaders, dignitaries and businessmen provenly love that kind of stuff. Which do you think would be more conducive to successful political or business negotiations, being entertained in luxurious surroundings with a Royal Marine band playing, or a sandwich in an anonymous airport cafeteria?

 

BillB

A museum show of gone by imperial splendor is going to endear anyone for future deals with the united Kingdom? The HMS Britannia was built for the Empire and as a symbol of it. There is no Empire anymore and it will not come back ever. Sure it is a good looking yacht, but anyone sees it as a symbol of ages past like most of the pieces displayed in the Tower.

 

 

Why not a "RAF No.1"? Pick an airbus of appropriate size to carry the queen and staff, the Royal Marines Band etc. Let Bentley or Rolls Royce design the interiour. They definitely know how to do this. Large parts of an Airbus are produced in the UK. wings and the engines being the biggest pieces. british enough imho. And you can travel more of the world faster. And even visit landlocked countries! Should there be an actual need for a ship the RN should be able to spare a grey one I think.

 

 

Airport café. :rolleyes: Yeah that is where POTUS makes his diplomatic visits to foreign countries I am sure. The local head of state will also think it is the proper way presenting his country through over priced thin coffee in a paper cup.

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Mebbe they could use one of the new aircraft carriers as they don't have any aircraft for them...

 

BillB

 

No aircraft? We're currently scheduled to get 138 F-35B, & we have some on order now.

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Like pretty much like everything in British politics, its been thought up on the back of a fag packet. And predictably the only good that seems achieved has been a side effect absolutely nobody predicted. :D

Not everything was as bad. the world wars have been run quite well and with a plan. But yes, My impression as well, that most things happened rather despite what No.10 and Parliament enacted than because of it.

 

5th largest in the world? Which sounds great, right up to the point when you realise we are just barely ahead of Mexico in exporting. It doesnt matter how well the city of London does, if that doesnt translate into increased prosperity in the other 9/10ths of the nation, what good is it?

That right there is the problem. And that is why people are angry. And rightly so. But they direct this anger at "those dirty furriners", when actually this problem is home grown.

 

And these problems you have across all of europe to a degree and people default back to what they believe will help, that is nationalism. And in the end it looks more like a decoy to me to distract the masses from those actually responsible.

 

 

Hence my misguided emotions comment a few pages back.

 

Good God man, what gave you that misguided impression? :D Ask Bill B about the improvisational style of British warfare, he could tell you far more about it than I ever will.

 

Look, we need financiers. Its pretty clear to this dunderhead our bankers were instrumental in getting our industrial revolution moving. Ive no issue with them making an honest crust like the rest of us. The issue ive got (and even foreigners have started to notice this) is the sheer, unadulterated obsession with the world of finance and nothing else. Yes, London deserves to do well. But its collapsing under the weight of the fiscal instablity that its own insitutions are creating. Infrastructure wise we keep throwing money at London and its not keeping up, as Heathrow had proven.

 

Basically those institutions are doomed to move at least in part elsewhere simply because London is killing itself with property prices and poor infrastructure. Its interesting to note the Conservatives (far more than Labour) have woken up to this danger and are, to their credit, trying to move some of the investment into the rest of the country. Manufacturing and export are two talismans touched on again and again as we move towards post Brexit. Quite right too.

 

And such things are important, not just for our political stablity, but even our security. Apparently in the Astute submarine programme we had to import dozens of Americans and Commonwealth engineers to get those boats built here. The problem is going to be even more acute with 'successor', the replacement for the Vanguard SSBN. We have grave difficulty sourcing steel here, we seem to have grave difficulty sourcing the engineers here. And this is supposed to be the cornerstone of our national security. If its going wrong there, you know the rot has got pretty deep.

 

All this points to wanting a more balanced economy, something Theresa May has pointed to. I endorse that. So if price of hard Brexit is that central London is in part cleared of investment banks pissing off for the doubtful delights of Bern, all I can say is, good luck. We will miss you. :)

 

 

You know, the reasons for Brexit are many, and I suspect there are as many individual reasons for what happened as there are voters. I think its a mix of misinformation, with real information, charlatan politicians and well meaning politicians, and well meaning but poorly informed Europeans, and venal and well informed Europeans. Its a real mix. im not so arrogant as to say Im sure why it happened. But that everyone seemed to have create a first class cockup that a great many will suffer from before it gets better (and it will at length get better) seems to me to be self evident. Even now British politicians are blaming Europeans, and Europeans are blaming the British.

 

Hasn't anyone learned anything?

Edited by Stuart Galbraith
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Mebbe they could use one of the new aircraft carriers as they don't have any aircraft for them...

 

BillB

 

No aircraft? We're currently scheduled to get 138 F-35B, & we have some on order now.

 

 

Im pretty sure we could fly those two Swordfish the Fleet Air Arm retain off them in an emergency. Wonder if we have any Mk8's left. :)

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Im kind of wondering why we dont just merge the British and American militarys anyway. From what ive just read, we have for all intents and purposes pretty much done it already with the subsurface fleet anyway.

 

Still say the F35 isnt a patch on the Harrier though. :P

 

One more division for the US Army would not be a big difference :P

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Im kind of wondering why we dont just merge the British and American militarys anyway. From what ive just read, we have for all intents and purposes pretty much done it already with the subsurface fleet anyway.

 

Still say the F35 isnt a patch on the Harrier though. :P

 

One more division for the US Army would not be a big difference :P

 

One more, exceptional, Division. :)

 

Actually considering how hard up the USN is for attack submarines at the moment, they would probably welcome 7 more Astutes. They were apparently astonished how good it was in a recent exercise. They shouldnt be, they pretty much designed it. :D

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The news that should shock no-one. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-37627308

Don't really see anything in there to shock anyone, given that the alleged cabinet minister remains anonymous and it is all "may" and "quite a lot"... :rolleyes: Just more BBC straw grasping on behalf of the cry baby Remainers.

 

BillB.

 

Indeed, and that was the point of the (intended) sarcasm.

 

essentially the article is saying that ifwe want the same deal that we had (zero tariff exports to EU states) then we have to pay the tax.

 

For all that Tim Worstall has a tarnished reputation due to his association with UKIP, he makes a valid point (over a number of years, and his opinions can be found via Forbes) - if we look at EU membership purely from the access to "free" trade perspective, then the cost of membership is an import tax to the EU. Why, then, should the nation state subsidise exports for companies that wish to export to the EU? Better to accept the WTO import duty levels which are paid directly by the companies that export those goods. If one cannot compete in a market without government (taxpayer) subsidy, then you're not efficient enough to add value to the economy.

 

From a manufacturing perspective, the current market response to the situation is to see the pound devalue to rebalance the cost of adding value in the UK. Yes, imports rise in price but imported raw materials are a small fraction of the value of a finished product. Now, a large part of our industry is final assembly (if we look at the car industry, for example), with much of the assemblies being imported. The cost of those assemblies rises as the pound devalues, which is a significant problem as much of the value added is already present. A solution to that problem is to expand domestic production of sub-assemblies... And as the pound is "cheap" that can be stimulated by foreign investment...

 

Anyway, the other thing he notes is that we should abolish import duties altogether - they make it more expensive for us to do stuff. Obviously revenues taken in import duties need to be gathered elsewhere, or (heaven forfend), reduce the cost of government by cutting unnecessary services.

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