Jump to content

Brexit


Corinthian
 Share

Recommended Posts

 

 

'We deeply respect the United Kindoms choice, and we are going to make them fucking pay for it.' :D</p>

No more special snow flake rules for you.

 

Have the special deals been revoked yet? No need to appease UK anymore.

 

Strange that, I'm unaware of any EU appeasement toward the UK, quite the opposite; I think the deliberate failure to throw Cameron a bone during his "negotiations" was actually an important factor in many folk here voting to Leave. If anything I'd say it has been the opposite - it'll be interesting to see how Germany manages to shoulder the burden of financially propping up the whole EU shebang once the UK appeasement money stops flowing into the EU coffers...

 

BillB

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 6.9k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Posted Images

 

 

 

 

'We deeply respect the United Kindoms choice, and we are going to make them fucking pay for it.' :D</p>

No more special snow flake rules for you.

 

Have the special deals been revoked yet? No need to appease UK anymore.

Strange that, I'm unaware of any EU appeasement toward the UK, quite the opposite; I think the deliberate failure to throw Cameron a bone during his "negotiations" was actually an important factor in many folk here voting to Leave. If anything I'd say it has been the opposite -

:blink: You do know that the UK pays less into the EU pot than it should normally? UK has had a rebate for decades. That is appeasement so that the UK does not leave. "I want my money back" and all that. That has been gone over several times in this thread.

 

 

I think most that voted leave did so, because they are fed up with London and Brussels. Big Duck You to the detached "elite".

 

 

it'll be interesting to see how Germany manages to shoulder the burden of financially propping up the whole EU shebang once the UK appeasement money stops flowing into the EU coffers...

 

BillB

Well the UK does not do full payments. Appeasement money to the EU? Ehrm well. No. The other way around through the rebate. Which set a bad example that the UK was a special snowflake. It is not any more than any other member. They pretend to want to leave so no need for any special treatment.

 

OTOH Germany has been overpaying since 1990, because the former DDR is not fully accounted for. They were afraid of the reduction and thus hole in the EU budget. So Germany kept paying. So Germany is going to survive it. With the UK gone also payments from the EU to the UK in subsidies and such are gone too. The newer members are doing better every year. So the EU is gonna get along. With a budget reduction they will hopefully revise all these spawling subsidies and other projects. Well one can hope. <_<

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

 

 

'We deeply respect the United Kindoms choice, and we are going to make them fucking pay for it.' :D</p>

No more special snow flake rules for you.

 

Have the special deals been revoked yet? No need to appease UK anymore.

Strange that, I'm unaware of any EU appeasement toward the UK, quite the opposite; I think the deliberate failure to throw Cameron a bone during his "negotiations" was actually an important factor in many folk here voting to Leave. If anything I'd say it has been the opposite -

:blink: You do know that the UK pays less into the EU pot than it should normally? UK has had a rebate for decades. That is appeasement so that the UK does not leave. "I want my money back" and all that. That has been gone over several times in this thread.

 

 

I think most that voted leave did so, because they are fed up with London and Brussels. Big Duck You to the detached "elite".

 

 

it'll be interesting to see how Germany manages to shoulder the burden of financially propping up the whole EU shebang once the UK appeasement money stops flowing into the EU coffers...

 

BillB

Well the UK does not do full payments. Appeasement money to the EU? Ehrm well. No. The other way around through the rebate. Which set a bad example that the UK was a special snowflake. It is not any more than any other member. They pretend to want to leave so no need for any special treatment.

 

OTOH Germany has been overpaying since 1990, because the former DDR is not fully accounted for. They were afraid of the reduction and thus hole in the EU budget. So Germany kept paying. So Germany is going to survive it. With the UK gone also payments from the EU to the UK in subsidies and such are gone too. The newer members are doing better every year. So the EU is gonna get along. With a budget reduction they will hopefully revise all these spawling subsidies and other projects. Well one can hope. <_<

 

That wasnt a rebate. That was tribute for being awesome and saving the world for Truth, Justice and the British way. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

 

 

'We deeply respect the United Kindoms choice, and we are going to make them fucking pay for it.' :D</p>

No more special snow flake rules for you.

 

Have the special deals been revoked yet? No need to appease UK anymore.

Strange that, I'm unaware of any EU appeasement toward the UK, quite the opposite; I think the deliberate failure to throw Cameron a bone during his "negotiations" was actually an important factor in many folk here voting to Leave. If anything I'd say it has been the opposite -

:blink: You do know that the UK pays less into the EU pot than it should normally? UK has had a rebate for decades. That is appeasement so that the UK does not leave. "I want my money back" and all that. That has been gone over several times in this thread.

 

 

I think most that voted leave did so, because they are fed up with London and Brussels. Big Duck You to the detached "elite".

 

 

it'll be interesting to see how Germany manages to shoulder the burden of financially propping up the whole EU shebang once the UK appeasement money stops flowing into the EU coffers...

 

BillB

Well the UK does not do full payments. Appeasement money to the EU? Ehrm well. No. The other way around through the rebate. Which set a bad example that the UK was a special snowflake. It is not any more than any other member. They pretend to want to leave so no need for any special treatment.

 

OTOH Germany has been overpaying since 1990, because the former DDR is not fully accounted for. They were afraid of the reduction and thus hole in the EU budget. So Germany kept paying. So Germany is going to survive it. With the UK gone also payments from the EU to the UK in subsidies and such are gone too. The newer members are doing better every year. So the EU is gonna get along. With a budget reduction they will hopefully revise all these spawling subsidies and other projects. Well one can hope. <_<

 

Nothing to do with any special snowflakeness, the UK rebate dates back to the EEC, because UK payments were set higher than any other member for not boarding the ship at the outset, pushed by de Gaulle IIRC. Hence the accuracy of the term appeasement payments. After Thatcher pushed back against that in the 1980s Brussels recognised the imbalance and granted the UK a rebate, which was largely given away by St. Tony of Blair. The simple fact is that the UK contribution is vital to keep EU finances in the black, otherwise Brussels would have tried to bully its way out of the rebate long ago.

 

On that tack I'm not sure where you get the idea that the UK is not more than any other member, given that it is something like the largest net contributor to the EU budget after Germany, and that despite the allegedly Special Snowflake Rebate. In 2015 Germany, the UK, Italy and France contributed 60% of the total EU budget, leaving the remaining 24 member states to come up with the remaining 40% between them; Italy is an economic mess teetering on the brink of insolvency and France isn't far behind. Consequently Germany and the UK are pretty much carrying the remainder of the EU so good luck with Germany carrying the entire burden alone, especially as you are already carrying Greece. Somehow I doubt getting back the UK's rebate of up to £5 billion a year plus the CAP payments etc is going to do much to plug that gap, assuming that Johann and Johanna Public in Germany are willing to sit still for paying out on top of the billions resettling, imprisoning and repatriating all those MENA doctors and engineers are going to cost.

 

I also admire your blind faith in the EU getting along, given that the point where the wheels are going to come off draws closer on a daily basis largely due the the utter ineptitude of its leadership. Stop kidding yourself about the UK pretending to leave the EU, the people have spoken and we are leaving. And I'd wager that so would several other states if anyone was dumb enough to give their populaces a choice in the matter.

 

BillB

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Personally im delighted at the 320million a week or whatever it was we were allegedly throwing away to the EU being used to bail out the NHS. Im glad none of the other promises the magnificent 3 turned out to be bogus either. :)

 

Unfortunately as it turns out, they are, because when you look at EU contributions for 2013 and 2014 we seem to be out contributed by France and, hilariously, Italy as well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budget_of_the_European_Union

 

If Britain did indeed exceed them for 2015, one might add it was the first time in a considerable length of time that we seem to have done so, and a trend that can hardly be relied upon with past history.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I also admire your blind faith in the EU getting along, given that the point where the wheels are going to come off draws closer on a daily basis largely due the the utter ineptitude of its leadership. Stop kidding yourself about the UK pretending to leave the EU, the people have spoken and we are leaving. And I'd wager that so would several other states if anyone was dumb enough to give their populaces a choice in the matter.

Democracy is so 20th century.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Actually I think we are in the perfect situation. We have voted to leave, so all those right wing carpet biting Tories can say they won, the pound has gone through the floor and we can export for the first time in a decade and a half, and we still have the right to access the European market. Why dont we leave it like this for heavens sake. :)

Edited by Stuart Galbraith
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Actually I think we are in the perfect situation. We have voted to leave, so all those right wing carpet biting Tories can say they won, the pound has gone through the floor and we can export for the first time in a decade and a half, and we still have the right to access the European market. Why dont we leave it like this for heavens sake. :)

Have production lines and, most important, qualified labor force survived this 15 years to start production again?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In 2015 Germany, the UK, Italy and France contributed 60% of the total EU budget, leaving the remaining 24 member states to come up with the remaining 40% between them;

 

BillB

 

So . . . countries which produced 57% of the EU GDP & had GDPs per capita from 95% to 125% of the EU average paid for 60% of the budget. Shock horror!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Actually I think we are in the perfect situation. We have voted to leave, so all those right wing carpet biting Tories can say they won, the pound has gone through the floor and we can export for the first time in a decade and a half, and we still have the right to access the European market. Why dont we leave it like this for heavens sake. :)

Have production lines and, most important, qualified labor force survived this 15 years to start production again?

 

Not enough of them for there to be a big jump in production. We've also suffered from a switch of the education system away from producing young people with the necessary technical skills, under both the main political parties. So we're short of skilled workers, & short of people with a technical education.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Actually I think we are in the perfect situation. We have voted to leave, so all those right wing carpet biting Tories can say they won, the pound has gone through the floor and we can export for the first time in a decade and a half, and we still have the right to access the European market. Why dont we leave it like this for heavens sake. :)

Have production lines and, most important, qualified labor force survived this 15 years to start production again?

 

Nope. :)

 

The generation of well qualified workers such as we still had in the 80s and 90s have now largely retired. Thats why the immigration from the EU was so useful. It enabled employers to avoid actually training up anyone to highly qualified jobs. They could also use the threat of cheap immigrant labour from the continent (usually agency staff) to drive wages down, and avoid costs of training anyone. I saw it happen myself. Not that even then it was profitable to produce anything here from about 2002 onwards, where I worked we were offloading production to Malaysia and China because it was the only way we could produce and make money apparently.

 

There is hope in the digital sector such as I work in, there is a LOT of potential there for regional areas to be highly productive. That is if the Government invested in regional internet infrastructure which they have been talking about for the past 10 years with little evidence of it arriving.

 

Maybe if we kept the pound on the floor for the next couple of decades those kind of skills and infrastructure investment might make it possible to compete on the world stage. The best hope is that when we leave Europe it nearly destroys the financial services sector and leaves any industrial capacity we have almost untouched, but I feel that's probably being a trifle optimistic.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Personally im delighted at the 320million a week or whatever it was we were allegedly throwing away to the EU being used to bail out the NHS. Im glad none of the other promises the magnificent 3 turned out to be bogus either. :)

 

Unfortunately as it turns out, they are, because when you look at EU contributions for 2013 and 2014 we seem to be out contributed by France and, hilariously, Italy as well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budget_of_the_European_Union

 

If Britain did indeed exceed them for 2015, one might add it was the first time in a considerable length of time that we seem to have done so, and a trend that can hardly be relied upon with past history.

Fourth biggest gross contribution, but relatively little spending in this country (because of agriculture), so our net contribution was the third biggest, marginally behind France. Italy's gross contribution was third biggest, but net contribution was fifth, after the UK & Netherlands.

 

The biggest net recipients were Hungary & Greece.

 

Per head, we contributed a lot less than Germany, the Netherlands, Sweden, Austria, Finland, or Denmark, & marginally less than France.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Personally im delighted at the 320million a week or whatever it was we were allegedly throwing away to the EU being used to bail out the NHS. Im glad none of the other promises the magnificent 3 turned out to be bogus either. :)

 

Unfortunately as it turns out, they are, because when you look at EU contributions for 2013 and 2014 we seem to be out contributed by France and, hilariously, Italy as well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budget_of_the_European_Union

 

If Britain did indeed exceed them for 2015, one might add it was the first time in a considerable length of time that we seem to have done so, and a trend that can hardly be relied upon with past history.

Fourth biggest gross contribution, but relatively little spending in this country (because of agriculture), so our net contribution was the third biggest, marginally behind France. Italy's gross contribution was third biggest, but net contribution was fifth, after the UK & Netherlands.

 

Per head, we contributed a lot less than Germany, the Netherlands, Sweden, Austria, Finland, or Denmark, & marginally less than France.

Basically this is yet another of the dream teams porkie pies isnt it?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Maybe if we kept the pound on the floor for the next couple of decades those kind of skills and infrastructure investment might make it possible to compete on the world stage. The best hope is that when we leave Europe it nearly destroys the financial services sector and leaves any industrial capacity we have almost untouched, but I feel that's probably being a trifle optimistic.

 

To some extent it is similar to situation in Russia (with oil sector instead of finance sector) but we were lucky our Gov started addressing the problem back in early 2000th, so we saved at least something.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ill say this for Putin (you see Bojan I can give credit to him for something) Putin realises middle Russia is where his support is. So when he invests in defence, he realises its putting money in the pocket of those decaying towns out there in the Urals that did well out of the defence years. That in actual fact have no real role OTHER than defence applications. He is rather good at that.

 

Where I think WE fall down is we look at how well the economy is and assume that translates to all regions in the economy equally. It doesnt. its pretty clear the North of England has been getting a raw deal for decades. Even former major manufacturing regions, such as Birmingham, have languished for investment for years. Yes its good the economy is making money. Its good more people in work. But unless there are more jobs created in the 15-20000 a year bracket out here in the styx, all you are doing is creating a highly localised economy in the Southeast dragging the rest of the economy around. There is no breadth to the economy because the regions are just not sharing in it.

 

Its been unfashionable in the UK to think of the regional economy. The current PM I think gets that, to her eternal credit. Does she have the imagination to do something about it, and make Brexit pay for the regions? Time will tell.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ill say this for Putin (you see Bojan I can give credit to him for something) Putin realises middle Russia is where his support is. So when he invests in defence, he realises its putting money in the pocket of those decaying towns out there in the Urals that did well out of the defence years. That in actual fact have no real role OTHER than defence applications. He is rather good at that.

 

You overestimate role of defense industry in Russia. Yes supporting “defense” plants was very important to keep top qualified labor (with qualification too high for civilian industry), other measures where most important in supporting regions – like re-allocating taxes payments from Moscow (where headquarters are) to where production is located, and so on.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well I was primarily thinking of one incident in about 2006 I think, when a small town had 3 major companies (that in soviet times were interrelated in procees) stop work because one they depended on for part of the process had gone bankrupt and an Oligarch was refusing to pay wages. I seem to recall one of them was a produce of Aluminium for the Soviet and latterly Russian fighter aircraft production.Putin walked in Alan Sugar style and started throwing pencils at the oligarchs till they got the town back to work. Do you recall that?

 

And a British politician simply would not deign to do that kind of thing. Its beneath them. Trade always is, unless its the financial sector.

Edited by Stuart Galbraith
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well I was primarily thinking of one incident in about 2006 I think, when a small town had 3 major companies (that in soviet times were interrelated in procees) stop work because one they depended on for part of the process had gone bankrupt and an Oligarch was refusing to pay wages. I seem to recall one of them was a produce of Aluminium for the Soviet and latterly Russian fighter aircraft production.Putin walked in Alan Sugar style and started throwing pencils at the oligarchs till they got the town back to work. Do you recall that?

 

 

Probably you refer to 2009 story of Pikalevo, small town near StPete on alum earth fields, where plant producing cement from aluminum earth wastes was shut down as result of oligarchs completing for control over deposit while aluminum prices falling causing less production and less wastes to process. Man who tried to carry away Putin's pen was Oleg Deripaska https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oleg_Deripaska

https://youtu.be/tLJpx8MxiAw

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In a wide-ranging 46-minute speech, the former Prime Minister of Luxembourg also scolded Theresa May for dragging her feet on triggering Article 50, the legal mechanism which begins the process of leaving the EU.

He added: "Many are wondering whether Brexit is the beginning of the disintegration process of the EU.

"Allow me to state, we respect and at the same time regret the UK's decision, but the EU as such is not at risk."

This is comical given how foreign minister of Luxembourg demanded that Hungary should be expelled from EU, just DAY BEFORE Juncker's speech. Yeah, we're so totally not breaking up.

 

Of course, if other EU nationals had a vote, Luxembourg would be probably the first to be booted out of the union.

Edited by Yama
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just ... look at them. Ewww. Lux 'em burg. Pretending to have their own language that is neither Flemish nor Dutch nor German.

 

Look at me! I'm small! I look so innocent! I will murder you in your sleep.

 

That's who Luxemburg is. Eating your liver with Fava beans and Chianti - while you're still alive, forced to watch, with taped open eye lids while the Ode to Joy is playing, amps cranked up all to eleven. You want that? You want that to happen to your family, to your kids? Do you?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just ... look at them. Ewww. Lux 'em burg. Pretending to have their own language that is neither Flemish nor Dutch nor German.

 

Look at me! I'm small! I look so innocent! I will murder you in your sleep.

 

That's who Luxemburg is. Eating your liver with Fava beans and Chianti - while you're still alive, forced to watch, with taped open eye lids while the Ode to Joy is playing, amps cranked up all to eleven. You want that? You want that to happen to your family, to your kids? Do you?

 

Wow, 30 Years War's PTSD is still strong...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share


×
×
  • Create New...