Brexit

[MiloMorai]

 

So should they stay or should they go? Inquiring minds want to know.

We need to go primarily on the grounds of sovereignty; since 1973 when Heath took the UK into the EEC on the back of deliberate lies politicians of all stripes have blithely handed over our freedoms purchased at great cost by previous generations to a degree that would see folk on your side of the Pond reaching for the guns & nooses...

 

BillB

 

 

I was under the impression that GB was chock full of silly rules and regulations restricting freedom.

[Stuart Galbraith]

It's not so much relatives, as properly trained cooks. They're reluctant to train because (1) it's difficult & costs money & (2) it's hard to recruit trainees in the UK because the pay & working conditions when they're trained are poor. They're offering burger flipper pay for skilled cooks, & British-born Indians, Bangladeshis, etc. want more.

 

Basically, the standard business model for Indian restaurants in the UK depends on paying too little to sustain recruitment & training of decent cooks in the UK. It requires recruitment & training somewhere cheaper & with much lower pay, such as Bangladesh.

 

There are restaurants that don't follow that model, but any that are both cheap & selling half-decent food probably do.

Perhaps, but if they all cooperated to fund a college place for it, then it wouldnt be an issue. Or get the Government to help fund it as part of regional development.

 

Ultimately bringing in cheap labour from India is unsustainable. They should have been able to see that this would one day change years ago, but who has shown any interest in dealing with it?

Edited April 5, 2016 by Stuart Galbraith

[Stuart Galbraith]

 

 

So should they stay or should they go? Inquiring minds want to know.

We need to go primarily on the grounds of sovereignty; since 1973 when Heath took the UK into the EEC on the back of deliberate lies politicians of all stripes have blithely handed over our freedoms purchased at great cost by previous generations to a degree that would see folk on your side of the Pond reaching for the guns & nooses...

 

BillB

 

 

I was under the impression that GB was chock full of silly rules and regulations restricting freedom.

 

Indeed. We are too fond of blaming our continental friends for all kinds of silliness. We are a European leader in the ministry of silly rules.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/9310602/Rogue-cheese-rolling-race-held-in-Gloucestershire.html

[BillB]

 

 

So should they stay or should they go? Inquiring minds want to know.

We need to go primarily on the grounds of sovereignty; since 1973 when Heath took the UK into the EEC on the back of deliberate lies politicians of all stripes have blithely handed over our freedoms purchased at great cost by previous generations to a degree that would see folk on your side of the Pond reaching for the guns & nooses...

 

BillB

 

 

I was under the impression that GB was chock full of silly rules and regulations restricting freedom.

 

Quite possibly, altho I very much doubt you could prove that is an exclusively GB trait among First World countries. However, as I thought ought to have been clear from my comment, I wasn't talking about pettifogging internal bureaucracy, I was referring to the loss of national sovereignty, which is not the same thing at all.

 

BillB

[BillB]

 

 

 

So should they stay or should they go? Inquiring minds want to know.

We need to go primarily on the grounds of sovereignty; since 1973 when Heath took the UK into the EEC on the back of deliberate lies politicians of all stripes have blithely handed over our freedoms purchased at great cost by previous generations to a degree that would see folk on your side of the Pond reaching for the guns & nooses...

 

BillB

 

 

I was under the impression that GB was chock full of silly rules and regulations restricting freedom.

 

Indeed. We are too fond of blaming our continental friends for all kinds of silliness. We are a European leader in the ministry of silly rules.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/9310602/Rogue-cheese-rolling-race-held-in-Gloucestershire.html

 

Quite so, the EU provides a very convenient camouflage for home grown incompetence and meddling so a Brexit would remove that camouflage and expose the reality for scrutiny and censure at the ballot box.

 

BillB

[Soren Ras]

I would add that while one can make good arguments about the uncertainty and possible economic issues associated with leaving the EU, the idea that Britain should stay in and attempt to reform the EU does seem slightly handicapped by the apparent complete and utter imperviousness of the Eurocrat elite to changing its mind about anything!

Every rebuke by popular referendum is ritually treated as nothing more than a bloody nuisance and mere temporary speed bump in the fixed and unwavering mission to transform the continent into an ever tighter union. Damn the torpedoes, mon freres et mein freunde, full speed ahead.

 

i used to be a full throated proponent of the EEC, and it seems completely obvious to me that of course inter-european cooperation, coordination and standardization is desirable on many areas. However, since the EU cannot continue the way it is now, and since the knuckleheads in Brussels (the term generally encompassing a very large percentage of various domestic busybodies not necessarily affiliated with the EU, but who use it as convenient excuse to hide their own fecklessness/ambitions) have yet to show any glimmer of understanding that simple conclusion, it may very well be that the best that can be done is to leave and take your chances outside, where at least you regain some control of your course. That's no guarantee of a happy future, naturally, but at present course the EU train passed FUBAR about a decade back and TARFU is in the rear-view mirror.

 

This may turn out to come at an economic cost (I think that very likely) in the short term, but I am not seeing how staying in is going to help anyone. It could, however, be that a Brexit would lead to at least a break in the hitherto dominant keep-on-truckin' what-me-worry? attitudes. That could be clarifying.

 

--
Soren

[bojan]

Quite so, the EU provides a very convenient camouflage for home grown incompetence and meddling so a Brexit would remove that camouflage and expose the reality for scrutiny and censure at the ballot box.

 

BillB

 

+lot

[Stuart Galbraith]

British Government never had a problem finding scapegoats for its problems long before we joined the EU. I dont believe leaving it would suddenly provide a ground spring in honesty and accountability.

[Stuart Galbraith]

This is quite an interesting insight towards Brexit and our relationship with Europe, at about the 25 minute mark.

[BillB]

British Government never had a problem finding scapegoats for its problems long before we joined the EU. I dont believe leaving it would suddenly provide a ground spring in honesty and accountability.

Well I don't think anyone has suggested it didn't or it would Stuart; I agree regarding honesty but the Establishment might nonetheless find it a bit more difficult to slough off the accountability if the ability to shout "a big boy from Brussels did it and ran away" was removed.

 

BillB

[Stuart Galbraith]

 

British Government never had a problem finding scapegoats for its problems long before we joined the EU. I dont believe leaving it would suddenly provide a ground spring in honesty and accountability.

Well I don't think anyone has suggested it didn't or it would Stuart; I agree regarding honesty but the Establishment might nonetheless find it a bit more difficult to slough off the accountability if the ability to shout "a big boy from Brussels did it and ran away" was removed.

 

BillB

 

 

I've often considered it would be highly appropriate if, like advertising, we introduce a trading standards authority for Political promises and Governmental statements. Though logic dictates if it ever was, it would meet so many challenges it would probably drive the country into insolvency in 6 months.

[Ssnake]

I agree regarding honesty but the Establishment might nonetheless find it a bit more difficult to slough off the accountability if the ability to shout "a big boy from Brussels did it and ran away" was removed.

 

Maybe the problem lies with journalists who are apathetic to expose these excuses for what they are. If that's the case, nothing would change.

Right now it seems like "Look, bewbs!" seems to work very well in the press to divert attention from anything relevant.

Edited April 5, 2016 by Ssnake

[Soren Ras]

"Look, bewbs!"

Pics, or I call BS

 

--

Soren

[Stuart Galbraith]

You only have to look at the Daily Heil website. Pretty much half of it on the header page include attractive and occasionally medically mutilated young ladies in minimal clothing.

 

I mean women are attractive. Its nice to know, but im not sure its exactly news.

[BillB]

You only have to look at the Daily Heil website. Pretty much half of it on the header page include attractive and occasionally medically mutilated young ladies in minimal clothing.

 

I mean women are attractive. Its nice to know, but im not sure its exactly news.

But if it was news then it wouldn't be in the Daily Heil though, would it.

 

BillB

[Stuart Galbraith]

Yeah I really cant disagree there.

 

 

Been finding the I Paper is pretty good value these days. But extended critique of Brexit, or Brexin for that matter, is not something ive noticed. I dont think the media are really that worked up about it either way. But they didnt seem to be that bothered about the Scottish referendum either.

 

You kind of wonder if they would bother to report the VDV landing in Surrey, or Green men turning up at Watford Gap. Probably not.

[BillB]

 

I agree regarding honesty but the Establishment might nonetheless find it a bit more difficult to slough off the accountability if the ability to shout "a big boy from Brussels did it and ran away" was removed.

 

Maybe the problem lies with journalists who are apathetic to expose these excuses for what they are. If that's the case, nothing would change.

Right now it seems like "Look, bewbs!" seems to work very well in the press to divert attention from anything relevant.

 

Mebbe, altho I 'd suggest that the Third Estate isn't apathetic but rather too cosily integrated with the Establishment; I'd point to what I'm seeing recently of the German press and media's slavish adherence to the government and police line connected to the ongoing MENA immigrant shenanigans in Germany as particularly egregious example.

 

I'd also suggest that the apathy lies with the electorate rather than the press/media, which wants everything sorted out to their satisfaction with minimal to no effort on their part, and then drip pathetically when things don't actually pan out according to their preferences. To be fair not all journos let such things slide, there are a few notable exceptions altho the additional problem is that the press/media are beholden to maximising reader/viewership above all else, which tends to militate against presenting Joe & Joanne public with anything too challenging or unpalatable. Just like politicians I suppose.

 

BillB

[JasonJ]

This is quite an interesting insight towards Brexit and our relationship with Europe, at about the 25 minute mark.

 

There is no Ukrainian state but the Ukrainian state is very repressive.

There is no Ukrainian nation, but all Ukrainians are nationalists.

There is no Ukrainian language, but Russian's are being forced to speak it.

Russia is a great power. Russia is a small power being pushed around be everyone else.

Russia is saving Europe from fascism. But fascism is not such a bad thing.

 

I think I've seen a number of the top three in the other thread. The 4th one, well, I guess it depends on the context, but yeah. The last one, the speaker talks about those kinds of groups throughout Europe being backed by Russia as policy is a new one. How true is that? He backs the point noting that the observers to the referendum of Crimea were mostly of these fascists sorts.

[Stuart Galbraith]

Well what interests me most about that is that he highlights one of the aims for Russia sketched by Alexander Dugin, ie separate the 'transatlantic' leaning UK from Europe (and hence America as well), and split the EU. That is not suggesting that UKIP is a stooge for the FSB, but its is somewhat alarming how many of the Brexit aims are closely aligned with what the Russian state wants. Which if you believe in European security strikes me as something we really ought to be considering before we adopt policies those who dont wish us well would prescribe for us. Again, the media has barely touched on it, and at the present time it is important imho.

 

I think Brexit is synonymous with European security myself. Many would say we have NATO for our security and hang the EU, by in my opinion (as others here have said) a fragmented EU will inherently mean a fragmented NATO too. If we wont stand by our trading partners, why would we stand by our potential battlefield ones either? For one thing, one has to question how America is going to stick with NATO if we get a President Trump. At that point European security organisations such as Eurocorp are going to suddenly look much more relevant.

[Soren Ras]

NATO is already dead, though some seem to think as long as the bureaucrats at the HQ in Brussels are pacing the corridors, the beast is somehow still a going concern.

 

--

Soren

[Stuart Galbraith]

No, its not dead. But you can hear many few sharpening the knives for its disposal, pretty much the same as the EU really.

 

Its very curious how much Europe wants to disarm, leave itself defenseless and voiceless and open the flood gates for all who would expoit it. I can see why the Russians believe Europe is decadent and ready to fall off its perch. Im about ready to believe it myself.

[JasonJ]

Polish logic might be what defends Western Europe.

[Stuart Galbraith]

I think the Eastern Europeans are about the only ones with any common sense these days.

[JasonJ]

Threats close to home tend to do that I guess. Brings them closer to reality.

[bojan]

Polish logic might be what defends Western Europe.

Do you really think Russian-Mongol hordes are going to occupy Germany/France/UK?

Poles are defending themselves, which is a good thing, their fault is like the last time, counting on French and UK being willing to help them. Well, they might fight same enemy, like the last time, but whole lot of good will that do for Poland.