DB Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 I'm confused about the claim that the UK made no use of the migration limits imposed on new member states. Because I am fairly sure that we did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Galbraith Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 I think we did too, the main problem was it didnt seem to make much difference to the guys getting out of the back of lorries on the A303. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Galbraith Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 (edited) https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/6766568/donald-trump-says-boris-johnson-would-be-a-great-prime-minister/ US trade deal is off. And that's fine, I didnt expect anything out of him anyway. Edited July 13, 2018 by Stuart Galbraith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Der Zeitgeist Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 Not the only thing that's off there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Galbraith Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 (edited) Boris as PM? Yeah, I do find it hilarious at how American's get on their high horse when they think someone is commanding their Democracy to their bidding, and free fit to offer their judgement on whom ought to be Prime Minister of Britain. This is the second appointment he has felt free to offer judgement on. Hopefully the Queen will handbag him into shape. Edited July 13, 2018 by Stuart Galbraith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seahawk Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 I'm confused about the claim that the UK made no use of the migration limits imposed on new member states. Because I am fairly sure that we did. Nope, you did not: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/10445585/Labour-made-a-spectacular-mistake-on-immigration-admits-Jack-Straw.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Galbraith Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 Thats 2013. Im pretty sure Cameron got the EU to make some concessions on immigration of new member states, which wasnt till the following year.https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/11150390/David-Cameron-secures-tougher-immigration-restrictions-on-new-EU-numbers.html He wouldn't have done that if the existing legislation was in any way usable by the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toysoldier Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/6766568/donald-trump-says-boris-johnson-would-be-a-great-prime-minister/ US trade deal is off. And that's fine, I didnt expect anything out of him anyway.My heart weeps truly it does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Galbraith Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 (edited) The narrative seems to be, it has to be a hard Brexit to make a deal worth having. Now from Trumps point of view, he loathes the EU. I get his perspective. I dont agree, but I get it. He wants to reinforce the idea that the EU is unnecessary to trade with the US. There is even a case for saying EU legislation might make it impossible to negotiate a favorable deal to both sides anyway. Though as far as Chlorinated Chicken, personally im not feeling the loss. The problem comes to what it means for employment. We have a hard Brexit, we cant get components to manufacture our cars, jet engines, even raspberry pi for heavens sake. All that comes from the EU, or via trade agreements agreed as part of the EU. So those companies go abroad, and then we get a massively favorable trade deal with the US somewhere down the line, except its irrelevant because all the companies that would benefit from it are either departed or no longer trading. So we end up the premier Rubber Dog shit supplier to the US. If we are lucky. And hardliners might pooh pooh this, but this is a real problem. A company I was working for told me a major component manufacturer in Scotland that made drums for our washing machines went bust. The nearest supplier we could find for cost was Malaysia. Anyway, all that said and done, apparently Trump is now conciliatory, and is now talking about a trade deal, and they have never had a closer relationship. So try and figure it out, ive given up. Its like trying to keep up with what a 12 year old wants for Christmas. Edited July 13, 2018 by Stuart Galbraith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glenn239 Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 Trump's doctrine is that allies can argue over money and still be allies. You know. Like every married couple, ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toysoldier Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 Can't be helped that the only industry where the UK is strong AND flexible enough right now is finances, and the USian banks would have Trump assassinated by Jared if he so much hinted something in that regard, if at all legally possible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Galbraith Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 Yes TS, I think you are probably spot on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seahawk Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 (edited) Thats 2013. Im pretty sure Cameron got the EU to make some concessions on immigration of new member states, which wasnt till the following year.https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/11150390/David-Cameron-secures-tougher-immigration-restrictions-on-new-EU-numbers.html He wouldn't have done that if the existing legislation was in any way usable by the UK. What Cameron achieved was a tougher legislation for possible future extensions of the EU, it does not change the fact though, that the UK chose not to use the transitional limitations for the 2004/2007 extensions. And to be honest he achieved nothing as there was a wide consensus on the topic, with the only difference being that the UK was not in opposition. But all immigration before 2014 was a decision made by the UK and the UK only: http://www.ismu.org/en/2017/05/eu-enlargement-and-the-distant-roots-of-brexit/ Edited July 13, 2018 by seahawk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DKTanker Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/6766568/donald-trump-says-boris-johnson-would-be-a-great-prime-minister/ US trade deal is off. And that's fine, I didnt expect anything out of him anyway.Why make a trade deal with the UK as a middle man to the EU? The idea is to cut out the middle man, UK, and negotiate with the EU straight up. Much more efficient and devoid of pretense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Galbraith Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 (edited) https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/6766568/donald-trump-says-boris-johnson-would-be-a-great-prime-minister/ US trade deal is off. And that's fine, I didnt expect anything out of him anyway.Why make a trade deal with the UK as a middle man to the EU? The idea is to cut out the middle man, UK, and negotiate with the EU straight up. Much more efficient and devoid of pretense. You have a fair point, and he has just as good as said so. He is just speaking now, he says he thinks if we can get the deal may is angling for, he is all up for negotiating a deal with the UK. I think whats clear here, is he doesn't see much point with negotiating with an outstation of the EU. Personally I think its going to be a hard Brexit anyway, because I cannot for the life of me see the EU bending an inch to accommodate Mays terms. Edited July 13, 2018 by Stuart Galbraith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzermann Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 Trump's doctrine is that allies can argue over money and still be allies. You know. Like every married couple, ever. well Trump knows divorce... in other news there is now Cleesexit: Why John Cleese is leaving the UK for NevisJohn Cleese has said he is heading to the Caribbean - Nevis to be exact.The Monty Python star said it's down to a lack of trust in the newspapers; "it’s the lying and the triviality that I object to".In this interview with Newsnight's Emily Maitlis, he shows her just how little trust he has.You can watch the full interview here.11 Jul 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonJ Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mAL2Nq9qSQ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Galbraith Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 It was a car crash, but it ended the right side up, which is probably what we were aiming for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yama Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 (edited) Juncker drunk or high again in the meeting. Not surprisingly, EU media treats him with silk gloves, barely mentioning him. Edited July 13, 2018 by Yama Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RETAC21 Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 "Hi Angela, did you bring my pills?!?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RETAC21 Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 To be fair, only a few of them act like they weren't intoxicated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BansheeOne Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 Juncker allegedly has a sciatic nerve problem since his 1989 car crash which put him into a coma for two weeks, and the video at least shows the typical hip-stiff gait. They eventually put him in a wheelchair later in the day. Pain meds could explain the long-running rumors about his drinking habits, too. Of course he might also be drinking on top of meds, never an advisable habit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzermann Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 Juncker allegedly has a sciatic nerve problem since his 1989 car crash which put him into a coma for two weeks, and the video at least shows the typical hip-stiff gait. They eventually put him in a wheelchair later in the day. Nothing really new that he has these problems, but todays hypemachine does not even bother to peek at bloody wikipedia. Pain meds could explain the long-running rumors about his drinking habits, too. Of course he might also be drinking on top of meds, never an advisable habit. He certainly looks like a let's say connoiseur of fine wines. And is said to ne a heavy smoker, but I have never sniffed his suits, so dunno. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Galbraith Posted July 14, 2018 Share Posted July 14, 2018 'Mein President, I can valk!' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marek Tucan Posted July 14, 2018 Share Posted July 14, 2018 Well let's see how the latest proposal fares. Seems to be more realistic than what was coming out of Britain, though still looks a bit like afterthought to domestic politics. Stuart, nobody wants to ruin the UK. Well maybe apart from Farage and other top Brexit faces riding off to live out their pensions in EU country . Frankly: If you think that hard Brexit is ruinous, blame those who painted you in the corner. If you think EU deal is worse than that... Blame your pols for preferring petty power struggles to actually trying to work out a deal. EU had fairly consistent position from the beginning, "These are the basic conditions for this kind of deal". Now yes, you may wish to get special treatment on that, but then you have to offer something worthwhile enough - or the EU countries (who have to ratify the deal even if you manage to make EU commission to give up) would say "why are they getting so much in exchange for so little, if we don't? Screw them!". I am not really sure what you as from the EU. Should they do the British side of negotiations for you as well?Should they screw the remaining member states to spare the UK feelings? Again what extra did the UK offer to make up for the pre-announced basic pillars? Even the last proposal is basically ignoring that - it is tit for that in the Goods, but what extra does it offer to make up for that? Dunno, seems that :Good Deal: in brexit parlance is deal that is good for the UK only... In such case there is likelihood you won't get it, as for EU no deal is also better than bad deal. And yeah, it is tricky - go with EU, have no say in deals with US (but have access to them). Don't go, and maybe have a good deal from Trump (though likely get a deal that banks on your disadvantage). Either way it will not be smooth sailing domestically or international trade wise, but you presumably knew that when your PM called for the referendum (again primarily because of the internal reasons;)) And yes, I know, May had to make a lot of compromises in her party and it ended with two resignations... But that is the thing, it shows at the very least that there is not much concern with the results of hard Brexit up there. Especially since the free movement of people is actually concerning the most the countries that should be your allies against the EU commission. The security concerns, honestly, are a pretty much separate issue and are NATO issue. EU is primarily economic block and in any case, with the best of deals, UK would still be outside EU so the cooperation would have to be lead in a more complicated fashion. And since the intel cooperation is covering you as well - it is in your interest to continue with it regardless on the Brexit form, esp. as it has very little to do with Brexit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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