Brexit

[Panzermann]

As I've stated before, the EU is acting on the requirements resulting from the form of its organization based upon member states which have a largely equal say in its affairs. The term of a "union" is really just an expression of hopeful ambition for a future Eurostate; "confederation" would have been much more apt, but probably too realistic to be adopted by idealistic/nefarious promoters of an ever-closer union, depending upon your personal view.

 

Should have stayed with the "community" term before the rebranding. But then they have also imposed those silly blue stripes on each car license plate to create the deception of a european unity or something.

 

 

 

OTOH the states of the USA are in many matters more sovereign than EU memberstates. And this was I assume built intentionally into the EU so that unpopular measures can be played via the EU and to keep decisions away from the citizens. For example the recent half-failed attempt of the media industry to lawyer and lobby their way to profits. (there is a second round in september to finally pass it).

[Panzermann]

 

 

You should tell the Italians that. They will be thrilled.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/989695/brexit-news-italy-agriculture-no-deal-brexit-eu-budget

And the Bulgarian and Slovakian entities which will pick up the slack of UK agricultural imports to the EU should care because? The UK wanted out because of the percieved infringment on state rights and now that the EU acts like a powerless entity who can not agree on anything (what a surprise) want the EU to impose its will on member states? There are countries in the EU that will benefit from a hard Brexit and they can achieve it by doing exactly nothing.

 

They are not advertising it but they sure are preparing to benefit from it.

2.5% of all Bulgarian exports are to the UK. Dairy products are 4.5% of their total exports. Thats only dairy products, never mind other food stuffs. From their point of view its an opportinity, not a risk. For the Italian wine producers its a huge risk, but they are not Italians.

 

EU is not a single country with a central government to decide everything.

 

My uncle is a big pork farmer, he mainly exports to the EU, he is salivating at the chance of increasing his share at the expense of UK exporters who exported 48.000 tons as of last Month to the EU. If that comes at the cost of Italian wine producers, well thats life.

 

 

So lets look at it like this. The Italians are aggrieved that they can no longer export to the UK. They hold the EU responsible. They decide to have a referendum, which to my mind witht he Government they have cannot be excluded as a possiblity. Assuming a knock on effect of this country cant export to that country, what is precisely to stop the possiblity of the entire EU being unzipped in this manner?

 

My father best friend lives in portugal right now. He says the locals are all saying the British had the right idea and they ought to do the same. Personally I think they are wrong, but that is not the same as saying the EU is going to be able to compensate for the funds or the market they are losing, particularly among those countries that are already seeing all their industry and jobs zip off to Germany due to the common market, which is essentially what happened to the UK and Italy. Its very easy to sneer at those Italians and say 'so what'. This is precisely the attitude that led people in the UK to vote the way they did.

 

Is anyone taking any notes? Because it sure doesnt look like it to me.

 

 

Those that make the politics obviously do not heed the warning signs that their mercantilist ways only build division and resentment. And then they act all surprised that more and more people are angry at the EU and Germany.

[DB]

This would have passed me by, except it was staring at me from the front page of the Sun when I visited the fish and chip shop yesterday....

 

The Times (yes, the real one, not some new world thing) published an interview with Hans-Olaf Henkel who appears to not much like the way the EU is "negotiating".

 

Behind registration form: Times story https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/brussels-chiefs-like-michel-barnier-andguy-verhofstadt-want-to-punish-britain-says-top-german-mep-hans-olaf-henkel-ww8c6ctfn

 

Sun version for lowbrows like me. https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/6900666/mep-michel-barnier-guy-verhofstadt/

 

I shrug my shoulders. It's two weeks old and nobody is listening to the man, so who is he, and why should anyone care?

[Briganza]

Sort of backed up by this in the Guardian.

 

 

Reports that Germany is willing to offer Theresa May a vague Brexit deal so as to prevent the UK crashing out of the EU with no deal have set alarm bells ringing in the Remain campaign in the UK and prompted denials from German sources.

[Panzermann]

This would have passed me by, except it was staring at me from the front page of the Sun when I visited the fish and chip shop yesterday....

 

The Times (yes, the real one, not some new world thing) published an interview with Hans-Olaf Henkel who appears to not much like the way the EU is "negotiating".

 

Behind registration form: Times story https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/brussels-chiefs-like-michel-barnier-andguy-verhofstadt-want-to-punish-britain-says-top-german-mep-hans-olaf-henkel-ww8c6ctfn

 

Sun version for lowbrows like me. https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/6900666/mep-michel-barnier-guy-verhofstadt/

 

I shrug my shoulders. It's two weeks old and nobody is listening to the man, so who is he, and why should anyone care?

 

from top of my head:

Henkel was among for long years manager at IBM Germany the IBMEurope, long time president of the Federation of German Industries (head lobby club of the various industry lobbies) and currently MEP for I dunno what party, I think ALFA? before that he was in the Alternative für Deutschland when it was a radically economy friendly party and left when AfD shifted more and more towards rightwing borderline nazi politics.

 

He is very critical of how the EU is currently developed into a more and more centralised state and hates the EURO currency as it is done now.

 

Also he has been like invited into any TV show or got a microphone shoved into his face if it had anythng to do with economy.

[Stuart Galbraith]

 

This would have passed me by, except it was staring at me from the front page of the Sun when I visited the fish and chip shop yesterday....

 

The Times (yes, the real one, not some new world thing) published an interview with Hans-Olaf Henkel who appears to not much like the way the EU is "negotiating".

 

Behind registration form: Times story https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/brussels-chiefs-like-michel-barnier-andguy-verhofstadt-want-to-punish-britain-says-top-german-mep-hans-olaf-henkel-ww8c6ctfn

 

Sun version for lowbrows like me. https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/6900666/mep-michel-barnier-guy-verhofstadt/

 

I shrug my shoulders. It's two weeks old and nobody is listening to the man, so who is he, and why should anyone care?

 

from top of my head:

Henkel was among for long years manager at IBM Germany the IBMEurope, long time president of the Federation of German Industries (head lobby club of the various industry lobbies) and currently MEP for I dunno what party, I think ALFA? before that he was in the Alternative für Deutschland when it was a radically economy friendly party and left when AfD shifted more and more towards rightwing borderline nazi politics.

 

He is very critical of how the EU is currently developed into a more and more centralised state and hates the EURO currency as it is done now.

 

Also he has been like invited into any TV show or got a microphone shoved into his face if it had anythng to do with economy.

 

 

Sounds to me like Germany's version of Vince Cable, competent but uninteresting. Lord, could we do with more politicians like that.

[BansheeOne]

Henkel was among for long years manager at IBM Germany the IBMEurope, long time president of the Federation of German Industries (head lobby club of the various industry lobbies) and currently MEP for I dunno what party, I think ALFA? before that he was in the Alternative für Deutschland when it was a radically economy friendly party and left when AfD shifted more and more towards rightwing borderline nazi politics.

 

Yeah, he was among the founding members of the original AfD who made it the first right-ish party with some widely respectable leadership figures, was their vice speaker and elected to the European Parliament for them, but left along with the rest of the founders when Frauke Petry and the nationalist wing took over. He had resigned from the national committee even before when he saw that coming, and afterwards referred to the party as "a real monster we created".

 

Their splinter group now calls itself Liberal-Conservative Reformers after they lost a trademark fight with a pro-life group over the ALFA acronym, and caucuses with the European Conservatives and Reformers which includes the British Tories in the EP (the lone remaining deputy from the current AfD, Jörg Meuthen, is a member of Europe of Freedom and Direct Democracy chaired by the honorable Michael Farage, while Frauke Petry's husband Marcus Pretzell represents the latter's own new splinter group, the Blues, in Europe of Nations and Freedom alongside the French National Rally, ex Front National, Italian Lega Nord and Austrian FPÖ). They'll probably drop out after the next election though.

[Stuart Galbraith]

Bugging you, bugging us, bugging you, bugging us...

 

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/brexit/british-spies-are-bugging-brexit-talks-claim-eu-officials-after-details-of-unpublished-slide-show-leak/ar-BBLZfUJ?OCID=ansmsnnews11

[Adam Peter]

While the Evil Russians are insulting the public's intelligence: London loses top spot in global financial centre rankings

[Stuart Galbraith]

Thank God for that. Its brought us nothing but tears.

[BansheeOne]

Because it turned out so well the first time.

 

September 23, 2018 / 12:25 AM / Updated 8 hours ago

May's team draw up contingency plans for November election

 

LONDON (Reuters) - British Prime Minister Theresa May’s aides have begun contingency planning for a snap election in November to save both Brexit and her job, the Sunday Times reported.

 

The newspaper said that two senior members of May’s Downing Street political team began “wargaming” an autumn vote to win public backing for a new plan, after her Brexit proposals were criticised at a summit in Salzburg last week.

 

Downing Street was not immediately available to comment on the report.

 

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-may-election/mays-team-draw-up-contingency-plans-for-november-election-idUKKCN1M20Y1

[TonyE]

Another election? Oh goodygoody!

Let Snap-May have her way.

[Stuart Galbraith]

I would not be surprised if this is a stalking horse to terrify the hardliners and the EU into compliance. I dont think she would do it, unless she completely ran out of road.

[Mistral]

Excelent news for currency speculators. Man, I do believe the current crop of politians in the West are on the payroll of FX brokers.

[Stuart Galbraith]

Or alternatively they are all complete twats. Never let conspiracy explain what pure incompetence does well.

[Leo Niehorster]

I would not be surprised if this is a stalking horse to terrify the hardliners and the EU into compliance. I dont think she would do it, unless she completely ran out of road.

Why on earth would the EU be terrified?

[Stuart Galbraith]

You think they actually want to negotiate with Jeremy Corbyn?

 

I mean yes, the Conservatives are in bits, but May has offered about the best deal thats going. If Corbyn gets in, he would probably take another 2 years to make his mind up whether to have another referendum or not. They still havent made their mind up at this late date. And the unions are piping up that if they DO have a second referendum, then they want 'stay in the EU' to be removed from the ballot paper.

 

If the EU wants a deal, the Conservatives are about the most reasonable. The manic wing of Labour are probably more brexiteer than the Tories, because they are having erotic fantasies about slapping down tarriff barriers.

[Leo Niehorster]

What makes you think the EU wants a deal?

The UK wants a deal. As always, picking and choosing conditions of membership.

 

The EU wants to maintain its system, and not keep on making exceptions and offering special deals to the UK, and finally get the awkward one out of in line.

So, even if the UK has another referendum — and then decides to stay in — I doubt that the EU would offer the UK it's previous special conditions.

[Panzermann]

And the unions are piping up that if they DO have a second referendum, then they want 'stay in the EU' to be removed from the ballot paper.

 

 

 

Huh? So there is then only Brexit on the paper or what? Voting like in the DDR.

[Stuart Galbraith]

 

And the unions are piping up that if they DO have a second referendum, then they want 'stay in the EU' to be removed from the ballot paper.

 

 

 

Huh? So there is then only Brexit on the paper or what? Voting like in the DDR.

 

 

Well the Unions (or at least the bit headed by the Transport and General Workers Union) would be happy with Brexit of any kind, because they have the view (not entirely incorrectly) that foreign production is sinking British companies. So slap down some nice tarriff barriers, and we can make Britain great again. That may have worked, 40 years ago, when we still had any industry left. Now that we have most of our product coming from abroad it just isnt going to work.

 

There is a good reason ive not discussed Brexit up to now, its despiriting and humilitating, its like a colonic irrigation by someone whom once worked for Dynarod. I dont know where its going to end, and to be honest, Im not sure I really much care anymore. Ill just say if the EU think negotiating with May is bad, there are far worse options. The next best option is Baz Johnson, the worst is going to be Corbyn and the Trade Unionists.

 

 

What makes you think the EU wants a deal?

The UK wants a deal. As always, picking and choosing conditions of membership.

 

The EU wants to maintain its system, and not keep on making exceptions and offering special deals to the UK, and finally get the awkward one out of in line.

So, even if the UK has another referendum — and then decides to stay in — I doubt that the EU would offer the UK it's previous special conditions.

The fact that they say they want one? I know the EU says one thing and does another, but you would think they would be interested in that if only to keep German manufacturers in beer.

 

You know what I find so one sided about all this. We heard ad nauseum how problematic the UK is. Its not UK farmers you see blockading the Channel Tunnel. Its not UK Fisherman beating up fishermen from other nations. Its not Brits allowing mass migration to cross Europe because they know its all going to end up on the doorstep of one unpopular member.The narrative is troublesome, tiresome Britain, when the founder nations of the EU can behave like utter twats any times they like, and are lauded for it. We cant, and every time we have asked for anything slightly non standard, you hear the clicking tounges of disapproval as if we arent team players. Though its never stopped them reaching for our wallet as if we were.

 

 

Logically, I know the Uk is going to be devastated by losing the EU trade links. I know that. Emotionally, after the following, If I was given enough referendum, id vote to leave. Its smug vindictiveness like this that is in large part why Britain chose to leave, and even now, there seems to be no identification of fairly basic lessons.They might not like May, they might not like the Conservatives, but by doing this they demonstrated a contempt for the British people which should be rewarded.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/donald-tusk-mocks-theresa-may-with-instagram-post-about-cake-and-cherries/ar-AAAoUOo

Edited September 23, 2018 by Stuart Galbraith

[BillB]

 

I would not be surprised if this is a stalking horse to terrify the hardliners and the EU into compliance. I dont think she would do it, unless she completely ran out of road.

Why on earth would the EU be terrified?

 

First, because the EU coffers simply cannot afford to lose all the moolah from its fourth largest contributor, hence all the guff about divorce settlements and continuing to pay when we've left and so forth. Second, because other Member States might decide they don't want to become subsumed into a political entity called the United States of Europe either and decide to walk as well once someone has shown that the EU isn't quite as like the Hotel California as Donald, Jean Claude et al would have you believe.

 

BillB

[Panzermann]

the biggest fear the EU leadership has is that other may be encouraged to leave as well. Of course they want to make an example of the UK.

 

But still the UK is in the weaker postion, being the smaller in the negotiations.

[Mistral]

the biggest fear the EU leadership has is that other may be encouraged to leave as well. Of course they want to make an example of the UK.

 

But still the UK is in the weaker postion, being the smaller in the negotiations.

Shush, there are still those who believe in Empire and that the natives must obey.

That they can not comprehend that the 15% of the whole can not tell the 85% what do to is mind boggling.

If what the EU is afraid is the lost funds then you would have seen them begging the UK for the last 15 months.

[BansheeOne]

I know the EU says one thing and does another, but you would think they would be interested in that if only to keep German manufacturers in beer.

 

The fact that this utterly reality-divorced tosh is still seriously believed two years later says all about the degree of delusion in the British debate.

[BillB]

What makes you think the EU wants a deal?

The UK wants a deal. As always, picking and choosing conditions of membership.

 

The EU wants to maintain its system, and not keep on making exceptions and offering special deals to the UK, and finally get the awkward one out of in line.

So, even if the UK has another referendum — and then decides to stay in — I doubt that the EU would offer the UK it's previous special conditions.

The EU doesn't want a deal, it wants to make an example to frighten other MS from getting ideas above their station and it wants to keep its hand in the UK's wallet for when the next financial crisis sinks the Euro properly.

I dunno where you get this guff about the UK picking and choosing, I suspect you've been swallowing all the stuff in the Captain Euro cartoons. AIUI the UK got some special conditions at the outset to make up for us being late to the party, and that was largely given away by St Tony of Blair in his quest to be the EU El Presidente; IIRC it was signed over in return for reforms that were reneged upon once the signing was done. Cameron was set to do the same but the EU took the piss so blatantly he lost his bottle, and any remaining rebates or whatever would have been lost when QMV becomes the norm anyway. That aside, I believe the UK has raised serious issues with the EU seventy-odd times since we were blagged into the EEC and all seventy-odd times the UK has been told to do one and suck it up. The only special treatment I see is the UK getting repeatedly shafted and paying through the nose for the privilege.

Ref the EU system that it's so vital, that would be the system that was blatantly bent to allow Greece to join, and that has been repeatedly ignored to allow Greece to remain in the EU despite widespread corruption and default. Or mebbe when all the MS signed away their external borders to the EU to handle via Frontex, which doesn't yet exist almost a decade later resulting in no meaningful policing of the EU's external borders; not seen any sanctions against the MS that have been obliged to reinstate border controls as a result either. And then there's the good old Dublin Agreement system which has been systematically ignored so that parts of mainland Europe's big cities now have their own favelas and all the crime and vice that go with them. The only system the EU recognises are the bits that suit it in pursuit of ever closer political integration which can be bent, altered or simply ignored as and when necessary.

Ref the bit about another referendum, although the EU's standard operating procedure is to make people keep voting until they get the right result that simply won't fly here. Ignoring the 2016 referendum result will be electoral suicide for the party that does it - hence the Limp Dems obsession with it- because it will simply destroy the compact between the UK political establishment and the UK electorate and trigger a constitutional crisis the like of which the UK hasn't experienced in modern times. Besides that, many folk including a goodly number who should know better don't seem to realise Parliament has voted twice and the fact we are leaving the EU in March 2019 has been enshrined in legislation. It's a done deal so all this guff about changing our minds or staying in the EU is nonsense because that boat has sailed, although I wouldn't be at all surprised to see the arch-Remainers like Cable or Soubry begging and grovelling to be allowed back in under any conditions the EU might want to impose. The only referendum possible would be along the lines of the vote Parliament will have on any final deal but the only two questions could be yea or nay to any deal with nay meaning no deal and WTO rules.

Not really surprised to see you banging the EU drum either, given that the EU is little more than a multi-national zollverein writ large with Germany in the driving seat.

BillB