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Centurion Turrets And Armor...


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.... 100m ammunition availability was not really an issue. Tons of the stuff was captured in the various wars (especially in Sinai in 1967)...

 

Problem was that very few HEAT (few 100s of rounds, IIRC something about 400 only) was captured in 1967., and BR-412B/D AP was running out of steam. Even in 1973. number of HEAT captured was relatively small compared to AP, which leads me to suspect how much did the Arabs have in the tank ammo load...

I know that there was Israeli inquiry in Yugoslavia in 1968-69. (via some African country, IIRC Ethiopia) about HEAT ammo, but we were also having shortage of it and were also semi-smuggling it (via Finland), since Soviets only delivered 250 in 1962. and would not deliver more.

While Yugoslavia broke diplomatic relationships with Israel in 1967. business obviously continued as usual...

 

 

The availability of 122mm HEAT is also a bit mysterious...but it is one of the things that adds life to the continued use of the 122mm main gun in the 1950s and '60s. Most Soviet/Russian sources use the M48A2, M60 and Chieftain as the ceiling for the performance of the 122mm BR-471B and D...although most sources don't include detailed performance numbers of the "D." The problem with this published ceiling is that Israeli sources have confirmed the loss of M48s to Egyptian IS-3/IS-3Ms during the Six-Day War. So far, I haven't been able to confirm which AP rounds the Egyptians were using...could have been one or both rounds....or it could have been HEAT ammo as well.

 

 

122mm HEAT would have been provided for the field artillery guns, wouldn't it? would it be compatible with the IS guns?

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The Soviets supposedly issued HEAT to 2S1 batteries, not that it means anything in this context.

The 2S1 had five special slots in its turret bustle ammo racks that were reserved for HEAT shells. It was mandatory to have those shells in any combat load to maintain a self-defense capability against enemy tanks at all times.

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Some of the "Israeli overstamp" ammo (mostly 120mm mortar) appeared in Bosnia, via Iran who got in during Iran-Iraq war.

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In fairness, excellent though Centurion was, its not saying much about the pace of our Tank development that we could build a tank to defeat Tiger nearly 3 and a half years after it arrived. Its not really as if we had a battleworthy tank till we fielded the Mk2, which was what, 1947 or so? 

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4 minutes ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

In fairness, excellent though Centurion was, its not saying much about the pace of our Tank development that we could build a tank to defeat Tiger nearly 3 and a half years after it arrived. Its not really as if we had a battleworthy tank till we fielded the Mk2, which was what, 1947 or so? 

Still, considering you didn't have much breathing space to actually work on a new-generation vehicle until mid-war, you did pretty well.

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Yeah, and I think Centurion eventually turned out to be the best tank of the war. But again, its telling it only got there AFTER the war. 

 it should be remembered we never meant to have the army as big as we did. That tank development stalled compared to other developments for the Navy and Air Force is entirely understandable, our strength was in the other two forces. its only when the French Army collapsed we suddenly needed a  bigger army. And at that point we needed a much bigger tank force.  Basically we were badly caught out by events.

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