Centurion Turrets And Armor...

[Wiedzmin]

 

why scheme with 7,8,9,10(fully modified) have 138 mm above the mantlet, and other tanks 152mm ? 7,8,9,10(105mm version) have some reduction to install 105mm ?

 

and there is some detailed info about Cent turrets models ?

[Stuart Galbraith]

No idea. That is very strange, drawing error?

 

I know the Swedes complained they found less armour in the turret of their Centurion on some examples than they were expecting. But I thought all theirs were Vickers built examples.

Edited March 13, 2016 by Stuart Galbraith

[Przezdzieblo]

Rounded mantlet for 105 mm looks bigger, protecting more than before. I guess this could be the reason.

[Wiedzmin]

Cent Mk.10(originaly posted by Fu_Manchu), from 70 rounds only 15 can be APDS, WFT ?

[DKTanker]

Cent Mk.10(originaly posted by Fu_Manchu), from 70 rounds only 15 can be APDS, WFT ?

 

I think you misunderstand. APDS is quite short compared to the other rounds, those are racks in which only APDS can be stowed. APDS can be stowed in all of the other racks as well.

[Stuart Galbraith]

Yes, that would explain why only APDS was allowed in the top bins. Presumably it might have fouled something in the turret as it traversed if you dropped a longer round in.

[Wiedzmin]

 

I think you misunderstand. APDS is quite short compared to the other rounds, those are racks in which only APDS can be stowed. APDS can be stowed in all of the other racks as well.

 

 

thanks!

 

confused because of this swedish data "17 APDS only "

[DKTanker]

 

 

confused because of this swedish data "17 APDS only "

 

And this one also means that of the 68 rounds carried, 17 of them can only be APDS.

[DB]

The "fully modified" 7, 8, 9, 10 drawing appears to show that the "nose" of the roof plate has been shortened. It looks to me as if this is to allow the gun to elevate more given the increased extent of the mantlet, but without a design justification for the change, I think we're going to be stuck with speculation. You will note, however, that the mantlet description changes from "max 6.0 in" to "6.0 in", which is much clearer.

[FlyingCanOpener]

Are there any publically available scans of the blueprints for Centurion? I have a couple of scans of sets of plans of warships that I've framed in my office (12" x 36" for the record), but haven't found anything similar for tanks, much less a later mark of Centurion. Anyone know where I could get a digital copy of the prints, specifically just the exterior view sheet in about 100ish dpi?

[Wiedzmin]

Bovington museum may have some blueprints

[Stuart Galbraith]

I bought some pretty good plans for a Chieftain mk5 and a BV202 IIRC from their plans shop. They probably have got stuff more than good enough for modelling purposes, but I wouldnt call them blueprints.

 

The user manuals are also pretty useful, but they are not really close to being blueprints either. Very useful for modelling a centurions interior though.

[DB]

No Centurions here, but a few others that may be of interest.

 

http://aviationshoppe.com/armor-tanks-c-46.html

[FlyingCanOpener]

No Centurions here, but a few others that may be of interest.

 

http://aviationshoppe.com/armor-tanks-c-46.html

 

Getting warmer, but not quite there.

 

I'll probably have to punt to The Tank Museum's library and see what I can get. I'd love a 105mm-armed Centurion or even a Conqueror. I can go to the local print shop with a .pdf of a blueprint and they'll print it for $0.50 a square foot--even if it's in colour.

 

I need to reframe the ones I have (Did them by hand), but this is what it would end up looking like:

 

Edited March 21, 2016 by FlyingCanOpener

[Wiedzmin]

about resilient mantlet

 

 

"The mantlet was attacked at normal with 17 pr. A.P.C.B.C. shot from a range of 50 yards. Three attacks were carried out; for the first two rounds the charges were adjusted to give striking velocities near the immunity limit of the 6'' thick mantlet casting. For the third round the charge was increased to give a striking velocity above the perfroration limit of the armour such that the shot would pierce the mantlet but just fail to perforate the trunnion block behind... The mantlet was an armour steel casting on a 6'' basis made to drawing FV.201388 and specification I.T.90F...

from "RESEARCH DIVISION TRIALS GROUP MEMORANDUM ON "IMMUNITY PROVING TRIALS OF CENTURION 8 RESILIENT MANTLET""

 

 

6'' thick + trunnion block(thickness unknown), maybe someone have something about trunnion block thickness(block 8'' wide, but no info about armor wall thickness) ?

 

and again thanks to Fu_Manchu, who get this report.

[Wiedzmin]

about turrets

 

31364T

39887T

40796T

http://www.mheaust.com.au/Aust/Research/Cent091/Centturretinfo.htm

[johnr]

Slightly off topic but how much of the original turret structure is there on the SA Olifant?

[Stuart Galbraith]

I talked to a man whom lived in south africa for some time whom described seeing Centurion turrets left lying in the grass. He seemed to suggest it was a complete replacement.

[Stuart Galbraith]

 

about turrets

 

31364T

39887T

40796T

http://www.mheaust.com.au/Aust/Research/Cent091/Centturretinfo.htm

 

 

Yes, if you look at the top one you can see the loaders hatch is near reversed from the second one. As I am lead to understand the second one would be a built Mk3, but the top one is a Mk2 that has been upgraded to mk3. There is a famous photo on the golan of a Mk5 that has popped its turret that shows the hatch in this fashion, suggesting it make the long transition from a mk2 before dying on the Golan (and knowing the Israelis, probably rebuilt and put back into service).

 

Not quite clear why they did it. Perhaps it gave better clearance for the loader from a 20 pounder gun, or maybe it was easier to build or just stronger. You have after all a flat edge up against side of the roof. rather than having a cut at a 45 offset angle.

[Przezdzieblo]

Wiedzmin, from that report:

 

The trunnion block 8" thick was made in V8/T3 steel to drawing 43328T modified to drawing FV.232143. After the firts attack in the trial the block was modified to drawing FV.266340.

The block was carried on trunnions 3.25" dia. running in needle roller bearings housed in the turret front casting.

[Wiedzmin]

yes i read whole report, but 8'' thick block, it's hollow inside, not 8'' of steel

i interested in thickness of "walls" of that block, it's more or less similar to Leopard-1 gun cradle i think

 

V8/T3 what sort of steel is that ? armor ?

[Wiedzmin]

 

31364T pattern turret armor, behind 89mm "beard" there was turret ring protection, thickness of ring unknown, 50-60mm imho

[exT70]

SA Olifant uses Cent turret (with modifications)

[Wiedzmin]

all turrets of centurions was welded from cast parts(3-piece)? Or only 31364T ?

Edited September 25, 2016 by Wiedzmin

[Wiedzmin]

https://yadi.sk/i/nKnC-6f7wp8dH

 

"assessment of lethality of U.S shell 105mm HEAT-T M456 against a space-plated Centurion tank"

 

recently bought a report, maybe someone will find it interesting