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Uk Surges Ahead With Challenger 2 Upgrade


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There is a zero things HESH does that modern multi-mode (superquick/delay/prox) HE does not. Other than having god awful trajectory and piss poor fragmentation pattern.

Fun fact : the GPR-PD-T 40 mm high-explosive round of the CT40 gun is classified as a HESH ammunition.

Edited by Sovngard
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120mm smoothbore? Never going to happen. HM Spacebourne Armoured Corps will have rifled rail guns to fire HESH rounds from their hovertanks while colonizing worlds in the Orion Nebula. ;)

Actually some years ago a Rh120 in a Challenger 2 mantlet was test fired in Unterlüß.

 

Photos somewhere hidden in an old Challenger thread here, that I cannot find at the moment.

 


 

Question is, what is the best that can be done with the limitations of the current system to get around rebuidling the ammunition storage for fixed cartrdiges?

 

 

Actually this is a common misconception. The actual ordnance fitted was the Challenger Hybrid Ordnance (CHORD) gun. This was specifically manufactured and was (size-wise) basically the CHARM L30 barrel modified with the Rh 120mm L/55 internals adjusted to suit a modified Rh Smoothbore breech as required by the MOD. It was just fortunate that Rheinmetal had developed their own L/55 upgrade to their own L/44 ordnance. Hence the confusion. The standard Rh smoothbore will not fit the Challenger cradle. The size and bearing configurations are too defferent.

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Meh, just change turrets. Ammo in bustle, 120mm smoothbore L55. Problem solved, next problem. S/F....Ken M

Well, any excuse to goof around with my model collection.

 

"Challybrams"

challybrams.jpg

 

"Challypard"

challypard.jpg

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The M1A1's or M1A2's turret would fit Challenger 2's hull better simply because it have a large ammo storage in the bustle for 34 or 36 rounds depending on the used ammo racks (odler or newer).

 

Leopard 2 turret will store only 15 rounds.

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"Challybrams"

"Challypard"

The Challeclerc is missing !

 

 

Why would David Cameron pay to unmothball a French turret production line instead of buying American? Buying from the US would be cheaper and would be more popular domestically. Plus the M1's turret is just plain better.

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... Maybe even penetrate a BMP and blow it to pieces.

 

Delay fused 125mm HE does exactly that, as evidenced in Ukraine. It would also do that to almost any IFV in service ATM. 125mm delay fused can penetrate about 50mm of steel w/o problem and cause crack reliably on up the 90mm thick steel plates.

 

when they replaced the Leopard C2 with the Leo2A6M, in Afghanistan they were underwhelmed by the smoothbores HE alternative compared to the effect of the 105mm HESH on the hard structures in the region. I understood they were working on a HESH like round for the smoothbore, but not sure were that is or still alive?

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...when they replaced the Leopard C2 with the Leo2A6M, in Afghanistan they were underwhelmed by the smoothbores HE alternative compared to the effect of the 105mm HESH on the hard structures in the region. I understood they were working on a HESH like round for the smoothbore, but not sure were that is or still alive?

 

Did Canadians get proper multi-mode HE for 120mm or used "HEDP" (read HEAT) for anti-personnel?

 

Smoothbore HESH will not work proper, muzzle velocity is too low for effective long range fin stabilization.

Edited by bojan
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"Challybrams"

"Challypard"

The Challeclerc is missing !

 

Here you go, the Challyclerc.

 

20160122_195523_resized.jpg

 

And if we want to get really silly, here is the Challymaus.

 

20160122_195622_resized.jpg

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IIRC some years ago Nexter was offering a Leclerc derived turret for sale as upgrade for older hulls. T-21?

 

edit: T-21 it was www.tank-net.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=18468

 

Why not a Yatagan turret to support the new ukrainian friends? 120 mm smoothbore, bustle storage. Yeah I know they have enough problems getting their orders filled at the moment.

 

 

 

As a boy I had an assortment of cheap green plastic tanks of roughly H0 size to put on the flat cars of my toy trains. I often mixed and matched turrets and hulls. A Panzer IV turret on Patton hull looks silly. :D

Edited by Panzermann
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Why would David Cameron pay to unmothball a French turret production line instead of buying American?

More seriously, why would the British replace the existing one ?

 

Plus the M1's turret is just plain better.

 

Explain what you understand by that.

 

Here you go, the Challyclerc.

 

 

20160122_195523_resized.jpg

 

 

It must be said that this turret suits it to perfection.

 

Exiting the tank seems a bit easier for the driver than on the Challybrams and the Challypard.

Edited by Sovngard
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