Sovngard Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 (edited) There is a zero things HESH does that modern multi-mode (superquick/delay/prox) HE does not. Other than having god awful trajectory and piss poor fragmentation pattern. Fun fact : the GPR-PD-T 40 mm high-explosive round of the CT40 gun is classified as a HESH ammunition. Edited January 22, 2016 by Sovngard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Tan Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 Well, you will need main battle tanks to counter the European ones after Brexit. Especially now there is a Chunnel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old ROF Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016  120mm smoothbore? Never going to happen. HM Spacebourne Armoured Corps will have rifled rail guns to fire HESH rounds from their hovertanks while colonizing worlds in the Orion Nebula. Actually some years ago a Rh120 in a Challenger 2 mantlet was test fired in Unterlüß. Photos somewhere hidden in an old Challenger thread here, that I cannot find at the moment.  Question is, what is the best that can be done with the limitations of the current system to get around rebuidling the ammunition storage for fixed cartrdiges?  Actually this is a common misconception. The actual ordnance fitted was the Challenger Hybrid Ordnance (CHORD) gun. This was specifically manufactured and was (size-wise) basically the CHARM L30 barrel modified with the Rh 120mm L/55 internals adjusted to suit a modified Rh Smoothbore breech as required by the MOD. It was just fortunate that Rheinmetal had developed their own L/55 upgrade to their own L/44 ordnance. Hence the confusion. The standard Rh smoothbore will not fit the Challenger cradle. The size and bearing configurations are too defferent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EchoFiveMike Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 Meh, just change turrets. Ammo in bustle, 120mm smoothbore L55. Problem solved, next problem. S/F....Ken M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter_Sobchak Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 Meh, just change turrets. Ammo in bustle, 120mm smoothbore L55. Problem solved, next problem. S/F....Ken MWell, any excuse to goof around with my model collection. "Challybrams" "Challypard" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damian Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 The M1A1's or M1A2's turret would fit Challenger 2's hull better simply because it have a large ammo storage in the bustle for 34 or 36 rounds depending on the used ammo racks (odler or newer). Leopard 2 turret will store only 15 rounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sovngard Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 (edited) Â "Challybrams""Challypard"The Challeclerc is missing ! Edited January 22, 2016 by Sovngard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark_Falcon Posted January 22, 2016 Author Share Posted January 22, 2016  "Challybrams""Challypard"The Challeclerc is missing !  Why would David Cameron pay to unmothball a French turret production line instead of buying American? Buying from the US would be cheaper and would be more popular domestically. Plus the M1's turret is just plain better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016  ... Maybe even penetrate a BMP and blow it to pieces. Delay fused 125mm HE does exactly that, as evidenced in Ukraine. It would also do that to almost any IFV in service ATM. 125mm delay fused can penetrate about 50mm of steel w/o problem and cause crack reliably on up the 90mm thick steel plates. when they replaced the Leopard C2 with the Leo2A6M, in Afghanistan they were underwhelmed by the smoothbores HE alternative compared to the effect of the 105mm HESH on the hard structures in the region. I understood they were working on a HESH like round for the smoothbore, but not sure were that is or still alive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bojan Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 (edited) ...when they replaced the Leopard C2 with the Leo2A6M, in Afghanistan they were underwhelmed by the smoothbores HE alternative compared to the effect of the 105mm HESH on the hard structures in the region. I understood they were working on a HESH like round for the smoothbore, but not sure were that is or still alive? Did Canadians get proper multi-mode HE for 120mm or used "HEDP" (read HEAT) for anti-personnel? Smoothbore HESH will not work proper, muzzle velocity is too low for effective long range fin stabilization. Edited January 23, 2016 by bojan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabotready15 Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 (edited)  Meh, just change turrets. Ammo in bustle, 120mm smoothbore L55. Problem solved, next problem. S/F....Ken MWell, any excuse to goof around with my model collection. "Challybrams" "Challypard" "Challybrams" The perfect match! Edited January 23, 2016 by sabotready15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter_Sobchak Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016  "Challybrams""Challypard"The Challeclerc is missing ! Here you go, the Challyclerc.  And if we want to get really silly, here is the Challymaus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corinthian Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 Abrams Mk1. Like Apache Mk1. With Enforcer RWS and APS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corinthian Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 So, what do folks here think the Challenger 2 needs most?Funding. And numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzermann Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 (edited) IIRC some years ago Nexter was offering a Leclerc derived turret for sale as upgrade for older hulls. T-21? edit: T-21 it was www.tank-net.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=18468 Why not a Yatagan turret to support the new ukrainian friends? 120 mm smoothbore, bustle storage. Yeah I know they have enough problems getting their orders filled at the moment.   As a boy I had an assortment of cheap green plastic tanks of roughly H0 size to put on the flat cars of my toy trains. I often mixed and matched turrets and hulls. A Panzer IV turret on Patton hull looks silly. Edited January 23, 2016 by Panzermann Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BansheeOne Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 "Challybrams" The perfect match! Â "Abrenger" has a better ring to it. Â The Challypard looks Space-Nazi-level wicked though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Tan Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 The Lerchallenger is by far the best option. It's going to benefit from being lighter and thus cheaper to run. It will of course be powered by a Rolls Royce Europack power train which will free up yet more space and weight savings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sovngard Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 (edited) <deleted> Edited January 23, 2016 by Sovngard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Tan Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 Why...the most effective way is to have the Armed Forces free up resources by simply machinegunning civil servants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sovngard Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 (edited) Why would David Cameron pay to unmothball a French turret production line instead of buying American?More seriously, why would the British replace the existing one ? Plus the M1's turret is just plain better. Explain what you understand by that. Here you go, the Challyclerc.    It must be said that this turret suits it to perfection. Exiting the tank seems a bit easier for the driver than on the Challybrams and the Challypard. Edited January 23, 2016 by Sovngard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Tan Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 It's probably quite a bit easier to install a new turret basket to the AMX56 turret than to cut up and rework the Chally turret to take an autoloader and new 120mm gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Tan Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 I think the line is kinda sorta extant....kinda sorta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonJ Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 Is Leclerc still in production? IIRC, the answer in another thread some time ago was no but could be restarted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sovngard Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 Is Leclerc still in production?Next year, it will be ten years that the production of the Leclerc has ended. But its production could be restarted if the Saudi are decided to buy it. http://www.tank-net.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=8846&page=7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urbanoid Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 Yes, it could be restarted in some 2 years, if one pays for it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now