120 Dead In Paris

[Mr King]

The War On Terror has definitely been over for some time.

[Mr King]

I'm sorry if my previous post was unsympathetic and politicized the tragedy. I'm just tired seeing these things happen over and over and over again and the usual script happens - people marching in unity, officials making pretty speeches and all that, on and on, and nothing substantial really happens.

 

Yes, it is sad that this happened again, to France. But there comes a point that one has to ask: when exactly are they going to do something really substantial to end this sort of nonsense.

 

Major terror attacks have pretty much become monthly, almost weekly occurrences.Nothing is going to happen. It is time to break out the French flag overlay for my avatar on Facebook, and start virtue signaling.

Edited July 15, 2016 by Mr King

[Tim the Tank Nut]

it just isn't a good idea to look online before bed...

I'm sick for France

I guess the media spin will be in full swing by morning

[JasonJ]

Came in slow and then stepped on the gas...

 

Looks like some people in dark clothes, security perhaps, were walking along the truck trying to signal to the driver to stop. Perhaps a concrete barrier could have made all the difference.

 

Of course there's still the problem of a willing attacker existing.

Edited July 15, 2016 by JasonJ

[rmgill]

 

I'm sorry if my previous post was unsympathetic and politicized the tragedy. I'm just tired seeing these things happen over and over and over again and the usual script happens - people marching in unity, officials making pretty speeches and all that, on and on, and nothing substantial really happens.

 

Yes, it is sad that this happened again, to France. But there comes a point that one has to ask: when exactly are they going to do something really substantial to end this sort of nonsense.

 

Major terror attacks have pretty much become monthly, almost weekly occurrences.Nothing is going to happen. It is time to break out the French flag overlay for my avatar on Facebook, and start virtue signaling.

 

[Mobius]

Looks like some people in dark clothes, security perhaps, were walking along the truck trying to signal to the driver to stop. Perhaps a concrete barrier could have made all the difference.

In Santa Monica several years ago and elderly driver got confused and hit the gas instead of brakes and plowed through a street fair for a block killing several people. They too should of had concrete barriers set up to separate vehicles from crowds of people. Terrorism or just public safety somebody needs to think about this stuff.

[JasonJ]

 

Looks like some people in dark clothes, security perhaps, were walking along the truck trying to signal to the driver to stop. Perhaps a concrete barrier could have made all the difference.

 

In Santa Monica several years ago and elderly driver got confused and hit the gas instead of brakes and plowed through a street fair for a block killing several people. They too should of had concrete barriers set up to separate vehicles from crowds of people. Terrorism or just public safety somebody needs to think about this stuff.

And if not concrete, a barrier with patrol cars or something.

[Marek Tucan]

Apparently this strip of water front is miles long. One account had this guy having driven up the route at 25kph and just not stopping.

yep, description I saw was he was in "attack mode" for two kilometers at least. Makes me wonder how effective the military patrols you see in Paris would be.

 

The body count is insane for a truck. This has to be the high score, its just petrifying. This maybe the checkmate arguments against the "this could been prevented if not assault-"

As I wrote earlier, this is on the level of a fighter jet cartwheeling through a crowd. When we had similar case in Czechoslovakia ages ago, it was a disturbed young woman in 1973 who declared "war on society" and plowed on a tramway stop - causing 8 dead and earning the fame of last woman executed in Czechoslovakia. This is just crazy.

 

Re. barriers, Czech army uses a modular hedgehog system, designed to stop car bombs and light armored vehicles - maybe a lighter variant of them? (they are just basically smaller, modular hedgehog style obstacles).

 

RDIT: Latest death toll is 84, with 18 people still in critical condition.

Edited July 15, 2016 by Marek Tucan

[BansheeOne]

[...]

 

French President Francois Hollande, who was in the south of France at the time, had hours earlier said a state of emergency put in place after the Paris attacks in November would not be extended when it was due to expire on July 26.

 

"We can't extend the state of emergency indefinitely, it would make no sense. That would mean we're no longer a republic with the rule of law applied in all circumstances," Hollande told journalists in a traditional Bastille Day interview.

(Writing by Alastair Macdonald; Editing by James Dalgleish)

 

Well, that's toast now (and tin foil hatters would say, how convenient).

 

Perpetrator supposedly a 31-year-old Frenchman of Tunisisan descent with a criminal record, but no history of radicalism per ID found on the truck. Conflicting reports whether there were weapons and explosives, too, and whether a shootout occurred. No other details yet, but I think everybody would be surprised if this was not another Islamist attack.

Edited July 15, 2016 by BansheeOne

[Stuart Galbraith]

Plus ca change. Tragically we shall see more of this until there is a mobilization against the elements generating the terror. It will not come under Mr. Hollande but perhaps Mdm. Le Pen is the end state.

Kind of like voting for Hitler to stop Communists isnt it?

[Stuart Galbraith]

 

[...]

 

French President Francois Hollande, who was in the south of France at the time, had hours earlier said a state of emergency put in place after the Paris attacks in November would not be extended when it was due to expire on July 26.

 

"We can't extend the state of emergency indefinitely, it would make no sense. That would mean we're no longer a republic with the rule of law applied in all circumstances," Hollande told journalists in a traditional Bastille Day interview.

(Writing by Alastair Macdonald; Editing by James Dalgleish)

 

Well, that's toast now (and tin foil hatters would say, how convenient).

 

Perpetrator supposedly a 31-year-old Frenchman of Tunisisan descent with a criminal record, but no history of radicalism per ID found on the truck. Conflicting reports whether there were weapons and explosives, too, and whether a shootout occurred. No other details yet, but I think everybody would be surprised if this was not another Islamist attack.

 

Report on BBC that a motorcyclist tried to jump on board the truck to stop it, but was knocked off and ran over. At that point, the truck picked up speed, and ran into the crowd.

[Rickard N]

 

 

Plus ca change. Tragically we shall see more of this until there is a mobilization against the elements generating the terror. It will not come under Mr. Hollande but perhaps Mdm. Le Pen is the end state.

Kind of like voting for Hitler to stop Communists isnt it?

I was thinking in a similar way.

[Corinthian]

If this was just some lone crazy guy with no terror background whatsoever...

 

... reminds me of some fiction piece I read many eons ago, of people suddenly becoming angry and tearing each other apart for no reason. Turns out it was some satellite beaming something on them causing them to go crazy....

[Stuart Galbraith]

If this was just some lone crazy guy with no terror background whatsoever...

 

... reminds me of some fiction piece I read many eons ago, of people suddenly becoming angry and tearing each other apart for no reason. Turns out it was some satellite beaming something on them causing them to go crazy....

Not so very far from the truth then Tomas.

[Arawa]

 

 

 

Plus ca change. Tragically we shall see more of this until there is a mobilization against the elements generating the terror. It will not come under Mr. Hollande but perhaps Mdm. Le Pen is the end state.

Kind of like voting for Hitler to stop Communists isnt it?

I was thinking in a similar way.

But is there any policy daylight between Hollande's Socialists and Sarkosy's Republicans when it comes to confronting Islamists domestically ?

 

I'm guessing - like most western liberal democracies - there is alignment between the establishment parties on this issue.

[Simon Tan]

I guess the French will decide how much longer they want to carry on as usual. Hitler is attractive when Chamberlain means being slaughtered regularly. Perhaps the French enjoy being slaughtered. Hard to say.

[Stuart Galbraith]

I take your point Simon, but lets not go down the road and suggest fascists offer anything but much the same thing in a same box. I mean look at Russia, they had nationalists running around hacking up anyone that had a slightly off tone skin colour, whether they were ethnic Russians or not.

 

As always of course, the French do things their own way.

[Simon Tan]

Garde Mobile. National mobilization. Marine Le Pen will use this idea in the upcoming election. Empowering the public to protect themselves and their communities. The security services are impotent.

[BansheeOne]

Conflicting reports whether there were weapons and explosives, too, and whether a shootout occurred.

 

There seems in fact have to been an exchange of fire with the attacker using a handgun. Several deact/replica rifles and an inert grenade also reported found on the truck, which was rented in the region some days ago.

[Panzermann]

horrible.

 

Makes me wonder why he did this as so far no links to jihad ideology, radical preachers etc. have been found. Maybe it was "just" a normal amok run?

 

---

 

 

 

Conflicting reports whether there were weapons and explosives, too, and whether a shootout occurred.

There seems in fact have to been an exchange of fire with the attacker using a handgun. Several deact/replica rifles and an inert grenade also reported found on the truck, which was rented in the region some days ago.

Luckily the lorry was not prepared as bomb.

[DB]

Photographs today appear to show multiple bullet holes in the windscreen of the vehicle, but obviously you're not going to stop it unless you shoot the driver and it's not the easiest target with a hand gun, I'd imagine.

 

There are permanent means by which you can harden targets against this type of attack - they're effectively tank traps and can work well in areas that require traffic calming or which are basically pedestrianised.

 

Houses of Parliament has this https://goo.gl/maps/9Gf9oqSYB2A2

 

Not likely to be effective against a huge truck bomb, but certainly going to stop a ramming attack on pedestrians.

 

Another approach is to use more regular street furniture to interrupt direct lines - flower planters are popular, and simple bollards work as well.

 

These are all mitigation - you can't prevent an attempt at an attack.

[Panzermann]

Nail tapes.

 

Easy to put in place and hide and with flat tires all around a vehicle won't get far.

[Panzermann]

Photographs today appear to show multiple bullet holes in the windscreen of the vehicle, but obviously you're not going to stop it unless you shoot the driver and it's not the easiest target with a hand gun, I'd imagine.

A windshield can he pretty bullet proof against most handgun bullets.

 

There are permanent means by which you can harden targets against this type of attack - they're effectively tank traps and can work well in areas that require traffic calming or which are basically pedestrianised.

 

Houses of Parliament has this https://goo.gl/maps/9Gf9oqSYB2A2

 

Not likely to be effective against a huge truck bomb, but certainly going to stop a ramming attack on pedestrians.

 

Another approach is to use more regular street furniture to interrupt direct lines - flower planters are popular, and simple bollards work as well.

Trees (when old enough), lamp posts, street signs etc. can all be integrated.

 

Roundabouts!

 

These are all mitigation - you can't prevent an attempt at an attack.

Of course. But half a dozen dead or maybe only a few wounded is much better than now the count approaching a hundred.

[BP]

Nail tapes.

 

Easy to put in place and hide and with flat tires all around a vehicle won't get far.

Hmmm, so you're saying put nail tapes all around the border of our immigration policy?

 

Or just turn every public space into an enormous bunker?

 

We should just change this to the "French Massacre(s)" thread.

[Yama]

There seems in fact have to been an exchange of fire with the attacker using a handgun. Several deact/replica rifles and an inert grenade also reported found on the truck, which was rented in the region some days ago.

What the heck is point of carrying non-functional weapons around? I mean, the guy was obviously nuts, I guess this is just further proof...