120 Dead In Paris

[Simon Tan]

The nesting is out of control. Please fix.

[Stuart Galbraith]

http://news.sky.com/story/1668076/trump-britain-and-europe-not-safe-places

 

Donald Trump has claimed Britain and Europe are "not safe places" following recent terrorist attacks.

The front runner for the Republican presidential nomination made the comments five days after the Brussels bombings, which killed at least 31 people.

The property tycoon said Europe had lots of "very, very severe" problems and added he did not even think America was a safe place for Americans.

 

[Marek Tucan]

#MakeAmericaScaredAgain?

 

Anyway, Czech tabloid brought an "overview of security measure in France". Such sensation! 1600 more policemen in Paris! Everyone is scared! You have to show ID to get into metro! Omigosh sky is falling run and hide!

 

Blegh.

[JasonJ]

Bad news from Pakistan:

"LAHORE: A suicide bomber blew himself up outside a park in a densely populated area of the metropolis, killing at least 69 people and injuring over 300 others, police and rescue official said on Sunday.

The blast place took place just outside the exit gate and a few feet away from children´s swings at the Allama Iqbal Park in Iqbal Town, the police said.

The dead and injured, most of them women and children, were shifted to various hospitals where an emergency was declared after the blast."http://www.thenews.com.pk/latest/108378-69-killed-over-300-injured-in-Lahore-suicide-blast

Any speculation on the motivation or on what groups behalf the bombing was carried out for?

 

Pakistan is a near complete blank page for me.

[DADI]

 

Bad news from Pakistan:

"LAHORE: A suicide bomber blew himself up outside a park in a densely populated area of the metropolis, killing at least 69 people and injuring over 300 others, police and rescue official said on Sunday.

The blast place took place just outside the exit gate and a few feet away from children´s swings at the Allama Iqbal Park in Iqbal Town, the police said.

The dead and injured, most of them women and children, were shifted to various hospitals where an emergency was declared after the blast."http://www.thenews.com.pk/latest/108378-69-killed-over-300-injured-in-Lahore-suicide-blast

Any speculation on the motivation or on what groups behalf the bombing was carried out for?

 

Pakistan is a near complete blank page for me.

 

[JasonJ]

They've been on the raise again in Afghanistan.

 

It sounds like easy common ground for the US and Pakistan work together against the Taliban. But that could upset India.

[bojan]

Pakistan MI created them, supplied them, gave them safe heaven... So how can you work with Pakistan to curb them exactly?

Edited March 28, 2016 by bojan

[JasonJ]

Pakistan MI created them, supplied them, gave them safe heaven... So how can you work with Pakistan to curb them exactly?

 

Guess I'll just quote this and then be quiet.

 

 

 

 

Any speculation on the motivation or on what groups behalf the bombing was carried out for?

 

Pakistan is a near complete blank page for me.

 

[Marek Tucan]

Pakistan MI created them, supplied them, gave them safe heaven... So how can you work with Pakistan to curb them exactly?

That would not be as much problem. The main issue is that all of this applies in present tense as well. They are still a tool in the power struggle between Army and Intel etc.

[Panzermann]

#MakeAmericaScaredAgain?

 

Anyway, Czech tabloid brought an "overview of security measure in France". Such sensation! 1600 more policemen in Paris! Everyone is scared! You have to show ID to get into metro! Omigosh sky is falling run and hide!

 

Blegh.

As if the CSSR never did this or something.

 

It is an inconvenience, but bear able and the network of the recent attacks seems to become bigger with each found derka jihadi.

[Panzermann]

 

 

Pakistan MI created them, supplied them, gave them safe heaven... So how can you work with Pakistan to curb them exactly?

That would not be as much problem. The main issue is that all of this applies in present tense as well. They are still a tool in the power struggle between Army and Intel etc.

That is the real problem that it is in large part internal pakistani struggle over power and the taliban are used as tools.

 

I wonder if the army side supplies the daesh in afg as counter?

[Panzermann]

IS TRAINS 400 FIGHTERS TO ATTACK

EUROPE IN WAVE OF BLOODSHED

BY LORI HINNANT AND PAISLEY DODDS

ASSOCIATED PRESS

Mar 23, 9:06 PM EDT

PARIS (AP) -- The Islamic State group has trained at least 400 fighters to target Europe in deadly waves of attacks, deploying interlocking terror cells like the ones that struck Brussels and Paris with orders to choose the time, place and method for maximum chaos, officials have told The Associated Press.

 

The network of agile and semiautonomous cells shows the reach of the extremist group in Europe even as it loses ground in Syria and Iraq.

 

(...)

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/E/EU_BRUSSELS_ATTACKS_CELLS?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2016-03-23-15-15-46

 

---

 

ISIS'S CAMPAIGN IN EUROPE: MARCH 2016

Mar 25, 2016 - Harleen Gambhir

 

ISIS is using its foreign fighters and safe haven in Iraq and Syria to execute a terror campaign within Europe. ISISs March 22 Brussels attacks support a larger strategy to punish, destabilize, and polarize the West. ISIS will likely continue to attempt attacks in France and Belgium in 2016, using its large Francophone foreign fighter population and local supporters. ISISs support networks in southern Europe may enable ISISs operatives to launch operations in other parts of the continent, including Austria, Germany, Spain, and Italy. ISIS may also increasingly target Westerners in Turkey in order to punish members of the anti-ISIS coalition and undermine the Turkish economy, as part of its stated objective to seize Constantinople. Current efforts to address these threats through law enforcement, surgical strikes on ISISs leadership, and linear attrition of ISISs terrain and resources are necessary but not sufficient to destroy the ISIS threat to Europe. The anti-ISIS coalition must deprive ISIS of its primary source of strength, its territorial control as a caliphate in Iraq, Syria, and now Libya.

 

ISISs suicide bombings in Brussels demonstrate that the jihadist threat to Europe is outpacing domestic and international law enforcement efforts. ISIS is successfully using its safe haven in Iraq and Syria to train as many as 600 foreign fighters for external attacks. ISISs fighters benefit from extensive support networks across the European continent. The logistical requirements for facilitating European foreign fighter travel into Iraq and Syria can also export those fighters from ISISs safe havens back to Europe. Reports following the November 2015 Paris attacks and the recent Brussels attacks indicate European governments have incomplete, fragmented intelligence on the identity and communications of ISISs members in Europe. ISIS likely retains attack cells and logistical networks within Europe that will enable it to launch additional spectacular attacks, with support from the organizations leadership within Iraq and Syria.

 

(...)

600 is a big claim, but even as "few" as one hundred cell members across Europe is a big danger.

 

edit: forgot the link: http://post.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/isiss-campaign-europe-march-2016

Edited March 28, 2016 by Panzermann

[Simon Tan]

Err....DAESH is Turkish MIT's Taliban. NATO intelligence organization.

[Roman Alymov]

The question Roman, is not whether insular immigrant or ethnic populations sub divided within your nation may or may not get involved in criminal activity, but the question is whether it will be tolerated due to Political Correctness. Somehow I doubt soviet authorities in 1970s were all that politically correct when dealing with an ethnic group that got too froggy. t the other component, with infidels being the 'other'. Ghetto shitheads certainly prey upon anyone that decide is worth the risk but they're hardly organized beyond very short term goals. Not so the islamist groups who are making a very large splash with their body counts.

Well, terrorists where caught and got death sentence , but generally there was no big political case made out of it (of course i can't remember it as i was not born at that time, but existence of this events are now forgotten by Russians).

Fresh example from today's news: in Naberejnye Chelny Armenian man (nationality not mentioned, but it is clear from his name) under trail for 159 cases of sexual actions against 6 girls (5 of them underaged, at least one case was violent). He pretended to be criminal boss and was targeting girls from "problem" families or orphanages, frightening them (and families when needed) and forcing them to sex and to clean his rented flat for small money. In reality he was cobbler working in tiny workshop at bus stop... http://www.bfm.ru/news/319053

[BansheeOne]

Seems the French are avoiding the security-liberty pitfall so typical in kneejerk reactions after major terrorist incidents.

 

World | Wed Mar 30, 2016 7:39am EDT

France's Hollande drops post-attack plans to change constitution

 

PARIS

France's president said on Wednesday he would not push ahead with plans to change the constitution, including a clause allowing convicted terrorists to be stripped of their French nationality, after parliament failed to agree on the measure.

 

The plan's withdrawal is a major blow for Francois Hollande, who had introduced it in an address to parliament at Versailles three days after Islamist militants killed 130 people in Paris.

 

"Parts of the opposition have been hostile to a revision of the constitution. I deplore this attitude," Hollande said after a weekly cabinet meeting. "I have decided to end this debate."

 

The initiative had divided lawmakers and caused months of heated discussions on what critics said was an inefficient and purely symbolic measure.

 

Hollande's plan to insert into the constitution the rules for a state of emergency was also abandoned.

 

The clause for confiscating passports hit a dead end last week after the opposition-controlled upper house of parliament approved a different version from the one adopted by the Socialist-controlled lower house earlier.

 

To change the constitution, the government's proposal needed to be approved by each house of parliament in exactly the same terms.

 

"It's going to revive the perception of a president who is not determined, who lacks authority, whose hand is shaking," said Frederic Dabi, at the pollster Ifop. "It also reinforces the feeling of a term during which reforms have dragged on, got bogged down."

 

Putting forward his plan three days after the shootings and bombings of Nov. 13, Hollande had appeared both resolute and consensual, as the measure was favored by the right. Lawmakers gave him a standing ovation at the rare joint meeting of both houses in Versailles.

 

But after the shock of the attacks began to fade, many on the left of the ruling Socialist party criticized the measure. In one version, it created a two-tier nation, differentiating between those who could be deprived of their citizenship and those who could not, depending on whether they held dual nationality.

 

"The president is being dealt a blow by his own political friends," a former prime minister and conservative senator, Jean-Pierre Raffarin, said on iTele. "The president's authority over his own troops is being challenged."

 

The most notable consequence of the internal rift within the party was the resignation of Hollande's justice minister, Christiane Taubira, earlier this year.

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-france-politics-idUSKCN0WW115

[rmgill]

What did France do with collaborators with the German Occupation?

Edited March 30, 2016 by rmgill

[DB]

If they were men, they were executed.

 

If they were women, they could be executed, or if they'd simply "fraternised" they could be tarred and feathered, or near-equivalent humiliations - hair cut off, stripped, beaten, driven from their homes, etc.

[Mikel2]

Many were ignored or forgotten to avoid national embarrassment.

[DADI]

What did France do with collaborators with the German Occupation?

I say that is a trick question.

As always - État Français found the right.. bend, to match the circumstances of that time.

Edited March 30, 2016 by DADI

[BansheeOne]

Many were ignored or forgotten to avoid national embarrassment.

 

And quite a few private scores were conveniently settled under the tag of "collaborator!"

[Stuart Galbraith]

Petain was just locked up. He died in jail in 1947 IIRC. He had more than a little blood on his hands too.

[crazyinsane105]

 

Bad news from Pakistan:

"LAHORE: A suicide bomber blew himself up outside a park in a densely populated area of the metropolis, killing at least 69 people and injuring over 300 others, police and rescue official said on Sunday.

The blast place took place just outside the exit gate and a few feet away from children´s swings at the Allama Iqbal Park in Iqbal Town, the police said.

The dead and injured, most of them women and children, were shifted to various hospitals where an emergency was declared after the blast."http://www.thenews.com.pk/latest/108378-69-killed-over-300-injured-in-Lahore-suicide-blast

Any speculation on the motivation or on what groups behalf the bombing was carried out for?

 

Pakistan is a near complete blank page for me.

 

 

So here's the problem....there's quite a big difference between the Pakistani Taliban and Afghan Taliban.

 

The Afghan Taliban rose to prominence years after the Soviets withdrew. They had Pakistani backing no doubt but their intentions were to simply control Afghanistan. It wasn't to spread across the world claiming Islamic conquest of every city on the map. Most of the Taliban leadership loathed Osama bin Laden and his foreign buddies, but he was a favorite of Mullah Omar so they had to tolerate him.

 

https://books.google.com/books?id=fF2BGedscMsC&pg=PA232&lpg=PA232&dq=taliban+put+bin+laden+under+house+arrest&source=bl&ots=hRcV87rgcP&sig=U8a0cO6-zMul_dcIYl2tDbQMucc&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjIqNfFzujLAhVEJiYKHb-HCY4Q6AEINTAF#v=onepage&q=taliban%20put%20bin%20laden%20under%20house%20arrest&f=false

 

 

There are even reports that the Taliban were trying to hand him over to the US prior to 9/11:

 

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/asia/2011/09/20119115334167663.html

 

In general, there was a mutual feeling of mistrust and hate on both sides. It was only with Mullah Omar's approval that bin Laden was allowed to stay in Afghanistan. Not saying that the Taliban were good folks by any means...they were extremely terrible to the locals in Afghanistan, but to think they are the same as Al Qaeda in terms of world domination is incorrect.

 

The Pakistani Taliban on the other hand are a completely different off-shoot...they consist mostly of tribesman in Pakistan who, prior to 9/11, were heavily engaged in looting, robbery, kidnapping, etc. They are teamed up with remnants of Al Qaeda and simply want control over Pakistan using any means necessary. The Pakistani public was for years opposed to taking military action against these guys up until Swat valley was overrun in 2009. For the past seven years it's been a constant state of war between the Pakistani Taliban and Pakistan...the Afghan Taliban have shown very little interest in getting involved.

 

Also, the recent attack in Lahore that targeted Christians...well, almost all the victims happened to be Muslims.

[JasonJ]

 

 

Bad news from Pakistan:

"LAHORE: A suicide bomber blew himself up outside a park in a densely populated area of the metropolis, killing at least 69 people and injuring over 300 others, police and rescue official said on Sunday.

The blast place took place just outside the exit gate and a few feet away from children´s swings at the Allama Iqbal Park in Iqbal Town, the police said.

The dead and injured, most of them women and children, were shifted to various hospitals where an emergency was declared after the blast."http://www.thenews.com.pk/latest/108378-69-killed-over-300-injured-in-Lahore-suicide-blast

Any speculation on the motivation or on what groups behalf the bombing was carried out for?

 

Pakistan is a near complete blank page for me.

 

 

So here's the problem....there's quite a big difference between the Pakistani Taliban and Afghan Taliban.

 

The Afghan Taliban rose to prominence years after the Soviets withdrew. They had Pakistani backing no doubt but their intentions were to simply control Afghanistan. It wasn't to spread across the world claiming Islamic conquest of every city on the map. Most of the Taliban leadership loathed Osama bin Laden and his foreign buddies, but he was a favorite of Mullah Omar so they had to tolerate him.

 

https://books.google.com/books?id=fF2BGedscMsC&pg=PA232&lpg=PA232&dq=taliban+put+bin+laden+under+house+arrest&source=bl&ots=hRcV87rgcP&sig=U8a0cO6-zMul_dcIYl2tDbQMucc&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjIqNfFzujLAhVEJiYKHb-HCY4Q6AEINTAF#v=onepage&q=taliban%20put%20bin%20laden%20under%20house%20arrest&f=false

 

 

There are even reports that the Taliban were trying to hand him over to the US prior to 9/11:

 

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/asia/2011/09/20119115334167663.html

 

In general, there was a mutual feeling of mistrust and hate on both sides. It was only with Mullah Omar's approval that bin Laden was allowed to stay in Afghanistan. Not saying that the Taliban were good folks by any means...they were extremely terrible to the locals in Afghanistan, but to think they are the same as Al Qaeda in terms of world domination is incorrect.

 

The Pakistani Taliban on the other hand are a completely different off-shoot...they consist mostly of tribesman in Pakistan who, prior to 9/11, were heavily engaged in looting, robbery, kidnapping, etc. They are teamed up with remnants of Al Qaeda and simply want control over Pakistan using any means necessary. The Pakistani public was for years opposed to taking military action against these guys up until Swat valley was overrun in 2009. For the past seven years it's been a constant state of war between the Pakistani Taliban and Pakistan...the Afghan Taliban have shown very little interest in getting involved.

 

Also, the recent attack in Lahore that targeted Christians...well, almost all the victims happened to be Muslims.

 

 

Sometimes its easy to be misunderstood in putting a group in good light when trying to explain the actions and positions of the various players, so I take that point. Very interesting, thanks.

 

ISTR that recently the Afghan Taliban has received much more financial support than the Afghan Islamic State. If the Afghan Taliban can be counted on to not harbor international terrorist organizations, then that could be a way for the US to exit Afghanistan and to just let the Afghan Taliban have Afghanistan again, however unfortunate that may be to regular townsfolk there. But why did the Mullah Omar (of Afghan Taliban if I'm following correctly) host Osama Bin Laden to begin with? My first guess would be for his financial support. And so then I would guess that in return, Osama gets a safe far away hide out to prepare for terrorists attacks against the US as places like KSA, Yemen, or Somalia would likely be easier to detect, catch, and destroy by US forces. So I'm wondering where recent financial support to Afghan Taliban is from.

Edited March 30, 2016 by JasonJ

[Mike Steele]

[crazyinsane105]

 

 

 

Bad news from Pakistan:

"LAHORE: A suicide bomber blew himself up outside a park in a densely populated area of the metropolis, killing at least 69 people and injuring over 300 others, police and rescue official said on Sunday.

The blast place took place just outside the exit gate and a few feet away from children´s swings at the Allama Iqbal Park in Iqbal Town, the police said.

The dead and injured, most of them women and children, were shifted to various hospitals where an emergency was declared after the blast."http://www.thenews.com.pk/latest/108378-69-killed-over-300-injured-in-Lahore-suicide-blast

Any speculation on the motivation or on what groups behalf the bombing was carried out for?

 

Pakistan is a near complete blank page for me.

 

 

So here's the problem....there's quite a big difference between the Pakistani Taliban and Afghan Taliban.

 

The Afghan Taliban rose to prominence years after the Soviets withdrew. They had Pakistani backing no doubt but their intentions were to simply control Afghanistan. It wasn't to spread across the world claiming Islamic conquest of every city on the map. Most of the Taliban leadership loathed Osama bin Laden and his foreign buddies, but he was a favorite of Mullah Omar so they had to tolerate him.

 

https://books.google.com/books?id=fF2BGedscMsC&pg=PA232&lpg=PA232&dq=taliban+put+bin+laden+under+house+arrest&source=bl&ots=hRcV87rgcP&sig=U8a0cO6-zMul_dcIYl2tDbQMucc&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjIqNfFzujLAhVEJiYKHb-HCY4Q6AEINTAF#v=onepage&q=taliban%20put%20bin%20laden%20under%20house%20arrest&f=false

 

 

There are even reports that the Taliban were trying to hand him over to the US prior to 9/11:

 

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/asia/2011/09/20119115334167663.html

 

In general, there was a mutual feeling of mistrust and hate on both sides. It was only with Mullah Omar's approval that bin Laden was allowed to stay in Afghanistan. Not saying that the Taliban were good folks by any means...they were extremely terrible to the locals in Afghanistan, but to think they are the same as Al Qaeda in terms of world domination is incorrect.

 

The Pakistani Taliban on the other hand are a completely different off-shoot...they consist mostly of tribesman in Pakistan who, prior to 9/11, were heavily engaged in looting, robbery, kidnapping, etc. They are teamed up with remnants of Al Qaeda and simply want control over Pakistan using any means necessary. The Pakistani public was for years opposed to taking military action against these guys up until Swat valley was overrun in 2009. For the past seven years it's been a constant state of war between the Pakistani Taliban and Pakistan...the Afghan Taliban have shown very little interest in getting involved.

 

Also, the recent attack in Lahore that targeted Christians...well, almost all the victims happened to be Muslims.

 

 

Sometimes its easy to be misunderstood in putting a group in good light when trying to explain the actions and positions of the various players, so I take that point. Very interesting, thanks.

 

ISTR that recently the Afghan Taliban has received much more financial support than the Afghan Islamic State. If the Afghan Taliban can be counted on to not harbor international terrorist organizations, then that could be a way for the US to exit Afghanistan and to just let the Afghan Taliban have Afghanistan again, however unfortunate that may be to regular townsfolk there. But why did the Mullah Omar (of Afghan Taliban if I'm following correctly) host Osama Bin Laden to begin with? My first guess would be for his financial support. And so then I would guess that in return, Osama gets a safe far away hide out to prepare for terrorists attacks against the US as places like KSA, Yemen, or Somalia would likely be easier to detect, catch, and destroy by US forces. So I'm wondering where recent financial support to Afghan Taliban is from.

 

 

Why did he host OBL? Well...have you seen 'Lone Survivor' and how that one Afghan hosted the US Navy SEAL? It's pretty much the culture over there to shelter a guest and provide him food, water, etc. for a certain amount of time. Mullah Omar was doing so under the pretense that OBL helped the Afghans against the Soviets. There wasn't a whole lot of financial backing that OBL had to offer the Taliban...matter of fact, the Taliban were much more flush in cash than Al Qaeda. The Taliban did stop opium production in Afghanistan to an extent, but they still dealt in the trade for their own personal gains. That amounted to tens of millions per year if I'm not mistaken (I read the book 'Merchant of Death' and it explicitly mentions the deals of Viktor Bout with the Taliban..involved lots of weapons, airplanes, and opium money).

 

Can the Taliban be relied upon to make sure that Al Qaeda (or now ISIS) doesn't come back again? That's the thousand dollar question, and that's why rumors of alleged peace talks between the US and the Taliban keep popping up once every few months. Also, Mullah Omar has been reported dead due to illness (supposedly), so with him out of the picture, there might be a chance of peace. But in my opinion, the Taliban and Northern Alliance need to govern the country together and effectively to ensure a somewhat functioning state.

 

Going back to the Pakistani Taliban....a number of Pakistani Taliban commanders are residing in Afghanistan, and they routinely launch attacks by coming over into Pakistan. So the Pakistani Taliban does have some influence in Afghanistan a well now, something the Afghan Taliban will want to see eliminated if they come back to power. It's just a huge clusterf*ck honestly, but one that the media barely pays attention too since Syria dominates most headlines these days..

 

And to answer your question about financial support for the Taliban...that comes mostly from the Gulf...

 

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2010/12/20101251936167112.html

Edited March 30, 2016 by crazyinsane105