Meanwhile In Afghanistan

[DB]

US claiming that the strike was called in by Afghans, which is a nice piece of blame shifting.

 

MSF claims that the "good guys" were informed that the hospital was active and in their control as recently as the day before and that calls were made after the strike began, to no avail.

 

It occurs to me that if you volunteer to treat casualties in a conflict zone, then you risk getting dead.

[swerve]

Yes, but you don't expect to be deliberately targeted by an air force that you have taken care to make your location known to. It's illegal to deliberately attack medical facilities, except in narrowly specified circumstances. The presence of weapons or armed men on the premises, for example, does not in itself render a hospital liable to attack. From my reading, it's legal to attack only if it's being used to attack you or your allies from, & after issuing a warning, those attacks continue.

[Panzermann]

The Taliban declare success and withdraw from Kundus after plundering:

 

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/10/14/asia/afghanistan-taliban-kunduz-withdrawal/index.html

 

Fighters "seized military equipment, APCs, launchers, tons of heavy and light arms ammunition as

well as archived documents from the ministry of national directorate services and other organs" and

proved they could achieve their objectives in "every part of the country" despite the continued

presence of foreign forces, the statement said.

Edited October 14, 2015 by Panzermann

[Panzermann]

US tank enters ruined Afghan hospital

putting 'war crime' evidence at risk

(guardian)

 

whiskey tango foxtrot? What happened there and why?

Edited October 18, 2015 by Panzermann

[FALightFighter]

I don't think there are any US tanks in Afghanistan.

 

I love the presumption that the attack was a war crime. Mistakes happen, and we KNOW that the enemy use prohibited targets to avoid our fire power - which, by its nature, eliminates the protection of the prohibited target by using it for a military purpose.

[JasonJ]

Tanks, they were tanks, APCs don't make the monies and political points.

[urbanoid]

I don't think there are any US tanks in Afghanistan.

 

I love the presumption that the attack was a war crime. Mistakes happen, and we KNOW that the enemy use prohibited targets to avoid our fire power - which, by its nature, eliminates the protection of the prohibited target by using it for a military purpose.

 

The M1A2s were deployed since 2010.

[FALightFighter]

USMC sent a company to Helmand. Those are the only US tanks I've ever heard of there. Helmand is a long way from Konduz.

[Panzermann]

For journalists any armoured car is "tank". Any boat with grey paint is a "battle ship". Every pistol is a "Glock" and every rifle is "Kalashnikov".

 

 

I guess it was an MRAP or maybe one of those IED disposal trucks. Why did it crash into the hospital?

[swerve]

I don't think there are any US tanks in Afghanistan.

 

I love the presumption that the attack was a war crime. Mistakes happen, and we KNOW that the enemy use prohibited targets to avoid our fire power - which, by its nature, eliminates the protection of the prohibited target by using it for a military purpose.

From my reading, it's slightly more complicated than that. Protected status isn't completely & immediately eliminated by use for a military purpose. It depends on the type & amount of the military use. It has to continue, not be fleeting, & has to be aggressive, not just something like taking shelter.

Edited October 18, 2015 by swerve

[Panzermann]

https://www.afghanistan-analysts.org/the-2015-insurgency-in-the-north-3-the-fall-and-recapture-of-kunduz/

[Panzermann]

Oct 19, 2:28 PM EDT

 

PENTAGON ADMITS MISTAKEN FORCED ENTRY AT AFGHANISTAN CLINIC

 

BY ROBERT BURNS

AP NATIONAL SECURITY WRITER

 

WASHINGTON (AP) -- The U.S. military acknowledged Monday that an armored vehicle carrying U.S. personnel deliberately crashed through the closed gate of the compound in northern Afghanistan where 22 people had been killed two weeks ago in a U.S. air attack on a hospital run by Doctors Without Border.

...

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_UNITED_STATES_AFGHANISTAN?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

[JasonJ]

Why does it have to be the president apologizing? Shouldn't it be one of the senior commanders over seeing the operation?

[Simon Tan]

He specializes in apologies and enjoys doing it. Why deny him these small joys? Of course this is only to furriners. Racist bible gun clingers do not deserve apologies.

[EchoFiveMike]

Legal?? Against head choppers? In a "country" full of pederasts?

 

You people crack me up. Rules are followed when both parties follow them. If you're the only side abiding by 'the rules', you're a fucking chump and an idiot and people should make fun of you. S/F....Ken M

Edited October 21, 2015 by EchoFiveMike

[Simon Tan]

Now, now....you are hurting the feelings of a large portion of your countrymen.

[EchoFiveMike]

Good. They need far more hurt than their feelings.

 

And they're not "my countrymen;" these loathsome fucks are a tapeworm in the bowels of actual America and the Western world in general.

 

 

S/F....Ken M

[Panzermann]

Reads like they want to shift responsibility to the Afghans:

 

US troops didn't have eyes on Afghan hospital before attack

BY KEN DILANIAN AND LYNNE O'DONNELL

NOV. 11, 2015 4:55 PM EST

 

WASHINGTON (AP) Immediately after the U.S. killed at least 30 people in a devastating airstrike on a charity hospital, Afghanistan's national security adviser told a European diplomat his country would take responsibility because "we are without doubt, 100 percent convinced the place was occupied by Taliban," according to notes of the meeting reviewed by The Associated Press.

 

More than a month later, no evidence has emerged to support that assertion. Eyewitnesses tell the AP they saw no gunmen at the hospital.

Instead, there are mounting indications the U.S. military relied heavily on Afghan allies who resented the internationally run Doctors Without Borders hospital, which treated Afghan security forces and Taliban alike but says it refused to admit armed men.

The new evidence includes details the AP has learned about the location of American troops during the attack. The U.S. special forces unit whose commander called in the strike was under fire in the Kunduz provincial governor's compound a half-mile away from the hospital, according to a former intelligence official who has reviewed documents describing the incident. The commander could not

see the medical facility so couldn't know firsthand whether the Taliban were using it as a base and sought the attack on the recommendation of Afghan forces, the official said.

Members of the unit have told Rep. Duncan Hunter, a California Republican who serves on the House Armed Services Committee, that they were unaware their target was a functioning hospital until the attack was over, said Joe Kasper, Hunter's spokesman.

Looking ahead, the strike raises questions about whether the U.S. military can rely on intelligence from Afghan allies in a war in which small contingents of Americans will increasingly fight with larger units of local forces.

Also at issue is how the target was vetted. American commanders, with sophisticated information

technology at their disposal, allowed the strike to go forward despite reports in their databases that the hospital was functioning. Even if armed Taliban fighters had been hiding inside, the U.S. acknowledges it would not have been justified in destroying a working hospital filled with wounded

patients.

Jailani, a 31-year-old mechanic who uses only one name, says he was at the hospital to see his brother-in-law, Ibrahim, who was admitted two days before the airstrike.

"On the day of the attack I was in the hospital from 9 a.m. until 5 a.m. During that time, the Taliban came in without guns, as patients or accompanying their patients, or sometimes they came

to take their dead out," he said. "They did not have permission to enter the hospital with their guns."

President Barack Obama has apologized for the attack. The Pentagon has said it was a mistake that resulted from both human and technical errors, and it is investigating, along with NATO and the Afghan government.

"No other nation in the history of warfare has gone to the lengths we do to avoid civilian casualties," Pentagon spokesman Navy Capt. Jeff Davis said in a statement. "And when we make a mistake, we will not only own up to it, we will also scrutinize all of the facts to learn from them so that it never happens again."

The attack by an AC-130 gunship came after days of heavy fighting in the northern Afghanistan city.

About 35 members of the 3rd Special Forces Group had been helping about 100 Afghan special forces soldiers retake Kunduz from the Taliban, the former U.S. intelligence official said. From their position in the governor's compound, they came under heavy assault by Taliban fighters, and sought to use air power to destroy the Taliban's remaining command and control nodes around the city.

 

The Afghans insisted the hospital was one of those command centers, and urged that it be destroyed, the former official said.

 

The AP has reported that some American intelligence suggested the Taliban were using the hospital.

Special forces and Army intelligence analysts were sifting through reports of heavy weapons at the compound, and they were tracking a Pakistani intelligence operative they believed was there.

It's unclear how much of that intelligence came from Afghan special forces. They had raided the hospital in July, seeking an al-Qaida member they believed was being treated, despite protests from Doctors Without Borders. After the American air attack, the Afghan soldiers rushed in, looking for Taliban fighters, Doctors Without Borders said.

The U.S. 3rd Special Forces Group knew the hospital was treating patients, according to a daily log by one of its senior officers written Oct. 2.

But 3rd Group also believed the compound was under the control of the Taliban, the daily log says, without explaining why. That belief was so pervasive in the Pentagon that Carter Malkasian, a senior adviser to the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, emailed Doctors without Borders two days before the attack to ask about it. He was told it wasn't true.

 

It's not clear exactly what the 3rd Group commander who directed the strike knew about the hospital, and why he made the decision to attack. Nor is it known who in the chain of command reviewed and approved the decision, or what those people knew.

Afghan officials say their forces were also a half mile away, and therefore could not have been under direct fire from the hospital.

Drawing electricity from generators, the hospital was among the only brightly lit buildings in Kunduz at night, Doctors Without Borders has said.

 

In the hours after the strike, Afghan national security adviser Hanif Atmar, told a European diplomat he had the explicit authority of President Ashraf Ghani to declare the government of Afghanistan would take full responsibility for the airstrike. The AP is not naming the diplomat because he was not authorized to discuss the matter.

"There was no doubt whatsoever that the Taliban were inside the hospital, that they took it over, thus violating its sanctity," notes of the meeting quote Atmar as saying.

Sarwar Hussain, spokesman for the Kunduz chief of police, told the AP, "The Taliban were around the compound and were killed when the compound was hit."

Hamdullah Danishi, the acting governor of Kunduz, said Afghan security forces needed air support that day, "not only for the MSF compound but for every place the Taliban were fighting."

The Taliban, he said, "used residential areas and civilians as shields, including civilian homes, health centers, schools, mosques and public places. This is why we say the Taliban hid during the attack inside the (hospital) compound and in other places."

from: http://bigstory.ap.org/article/5aadb002d10d4bae9ed3b919e3a87757/us-troops-didnt-have-eyes-afghan-hospital-attack Edited November 12, 2015 by Panzermann

[Panzermann]

 

Embedded in Northern Afghanistan: The Resurgence of the Taliban

Edited November 12, 2015 by Panzermann

[WRW]

seems I am heading back to Kabul over the Christmas - will freeze, no travel out this time, which is a big pity

[JasonJ]

seems I am heading back to Kabul over the Christmas - will freeze, no travel out this time, which is a big pity

3rd time I think.

[WRW]

 

seems I am heading back to Kabul over the Christmas - will freeze, no travel out this time, which is a big pity

3rd time I think.

 

this will be number 4 - 5th contract - probably only a month - at least that is the plan

[JasonJ]

 

 

seems I am heading back to Kabul over the Christmas - will freeze, no travel out this time, which is a big pity

 

3rd time I think.

this will be number 4 - 5th contract - probably only a month - at least that is the plan

Ah ok, almost like a second home maybe by that point, if more than a month.

[Simon Tan]

As predicted, Akrotiri offered for French basing. Is good...not far and not Turkey.

[WRW]

 

 

 

seems I am heading back to Kabul over the Christmas - will freeze, no travel out this time, which is a big pity

3rd time I think.

this will be number 4 - 5th contract - probably only a month - at least that is the plan

Ah ok, almost like a second home maybe by that point, if more than a month.

 

Guest house/Office - thats it - watching traffic carefully - watching people - a month in Kabul is enough - ISAF camp interesting but no longer have connections

Kunduz was not the best - although Piazza was good and work interesting

Mazar was nice for the ISAF camp food - work boring

Herat I preferred - place nice, people nice, work nice