9.10 (Godzilla Tanks Are Coming!)

[Skywalkre]

So my A/C is struggling and I couldn't sleep. I know, I'll turn this lemon into lemonade! So I started up the PC and jumped onto the 9.10 PTR to try out the new Japanese heavy line.

 

The first thing I was hoping for was to try out the Japanese Tiger. For folks that didn't see it WG actually had a surprisingly decent video detailing the Japanese Tiger (also note the shameless WoWs plug at the start). In short, the Japanese Tiger will be moved to tier 6 with the short 88. IOW, it's going to be fucking amazing. Sadly, the Japanese Tiger isn't available. Boo!

 

So... I jumped to the heavy line.

 

Full disclosure. I've barely followed or played WoT over the last few months. I've hardly heard or read anything about this line so this is effectively my first impression and the biggest impression is... well... they're frickin' BIG!

 

Here's my E 100.

 

 

Here's the Japanese tier 6!

 

 

The tier 7!

 

 

And finally, the tier 10. Note the tier 10 is probably the most compact of all the heavies (I only looked at the line from tier 5 up because... well... tier 4 and below doesn't exist to me).

 

 

Even though the armor listed on the side seems half decent for some there's two issues. First, we all know those listed values are meaningless. That's just the highest level of protection on that side of the tank and could be little more than a single strip while the rest of the armor is paper. Second, even if all the armor had that value the NA server is one where folks are not afraid to throw gold ammo around. These things are going to be (barely) moving target practice for the enemy team.

 

Another thing which was rather disappointing was that there's little variety. The tier 5 and 6 are basically the same tank. Same with the tier 9 and 10. Only 7 and 8 are a bit different. With all the cool tree ideas still available for smaller nations from Europe this tree, with paper tanks and copies was the best they could give us right now? Seems like a waste of time and resources.

 

My next thought was, "well, given they're so big and such easy targets they'll at least have a ton of hps to compensate... right?"

 

Nope! Take the tier 7. Once again here it is...

 

 

Now compare it to the Tiger, another paper armor tank at tier 7...

 

 

The Japanese tank could eat the Tiger and still have room for seconds. The point, though, is check out the hps. The Japanese tank, despite being massive has just 50 more hps... That's nothing. Across the other tiers a similarly small, and effectively meaningless, difference is present. Yes, the Japanese tanks have more but it won't help you any.

 

I'm actually half tempted to come back and jump in some mediums just to pick on anyone foolish enough to drive one of these. On NA at least, I don't see how they'll even be remotely enjoyable to play. I'll be shocked if most of these end up outside of the bottom 1/3 of heavies in their tier in w/r on sites like vbaddict (after you account for initial release boosts which are usually the case of good players trying stuff out and spending loads of free XP to move up lines quickly).

[Skywalkre]

Played two games now on the tier 7 and I'm surprisingly impressed. Decent mobility (gets up to mid-20s fairly quickly) and depression (no numbers but certainly not Soviet-style bad). The gun is also decent, easily taking on IS-6s without having to use gold rounds (haven't used any at all so far).

 

Here's the second game in it.

 

 

Damage was decent and actually blocked 1/3 of the shots that came at me. Still too early to tell about armor, though, from my perspective of firing on other tier 7s.

 

What surprised me is that you can't equip Vents on the tier 7. Vents are the one piece of equipment that helps boost mobility so I was really hoping you could. I'm curious why that's not an option...?

Edited August 16, 2015 by Skywalkre

[Skywalkre]

 

Third game, bottom tier against 9s. I'm dead about 20s after being spotted while hull down. There's that target practice bit I was talking about...

 

On to the tier 10!

 

Edit: Very first impression of the 10 (I'm still waiting on my crew to get out of the tier 7 battle)... still no vents and no vert stabs! That's fairly HUGE! Is this to represent the backwards nature of these designs?

Edited August 16, 2015 by Skywalkre

[Skywalkre]

First game in the tier 10 (screen is below). Sluggish, but not as bad as I was expecting (it has 50% more weight for the same horsepower as the tier 7). Unfortunately I lost my driver early and he's behind a fairly flat part of the frontal aspect just below the turret. I wouldn't be surprised if losing him ends up being fairly common. As expected it's a brick when he's dead.

 

 

Edit: Have had three games now. Lost ammo racks two out of three times (loader has the perk but we know that really doesn't lower the number of times you take ammo rack hits but rather simply lowers your chance from being 1-shotted from ammo rack detonations). Had multiple enemy arty both games and yes, you're an easy target for them.

 

Initial impression is... meh. This is in large part due to that fairly large, flat portion of armor on the front right below the turret. I had no trouble penetrating it, even when angled, using the gold round from this tank which is just 282 AP. If you drive this you'll get pen'ed often there and have a lot of dead drivers in the process. That's going to make this thing real painful to play except under specific circumstances.

Edited August 16, 2015 by Skywalkre

[Skywalkre]

Had time for one more game. My best one so far in the tier 10.

 

 

Couple things come to mind.

 

First, I forgot to mention that mobility-wise this thing is worse than a Jg Pz E 100 (we started out next to each other in spawn in like my second game and he passed me). So that's not good...

 

Second, I read the other day (I think on rita's blog) that players were complaining about the 110E5 rework to HD and that the cupola is even more vulnerable than before and were blown off by a dev. Umm... I have to side with the players. I engaged and completely owned an E5 player in the above game by hitting him every time, without missing or bouncing once (even when he was trying to be pro and shift back and forth), in the cupola with PTR lag. My experience in the past, on NA, has been that while it's a decent spot to hit you'd bounce occasionally. Yeah, yeah, I know, one example but it was shockingly easy.

 

Third, I'm going to wager the soft stats on this thing's gun are phenomenal. I had completely forgotten I wasn't running vert stabs. You don't notice it at all.

 

This thing might not be completely awful but I'd be shocked if anyone rushes to it for anything besides novelty or an unhealthy desire to have every tier 10 in the game.

Edited August 16, 2015 by Skywalkre

[jwduquette1]

wow -- such HUGE! It's like a whole tech tree of TOGs.

 

After reading the above, I'm thinking I'd rather see a Czech or Swedish branch of tanks implemented. Doubt I'll even bother with the Japanese heavy line.

Edited August 17, 2015 by jwduquette1

[Skywalkre]

I think the tier 7 and 10 (and 9 assuming it's similar enough to the 10) will be ok in pugs. Took both out again and did fine but keep in mind this is against mostly RU-morons-running-around-like-chickens-with-their-heads-cut-off. I fell in love with the STB back on the PTR when it came out but it took playing in real games on NA to realize I hated it.

 

Grabbed the tier 8 for shits and giggles. Absolutely NO depression frontally with those two mini-turrets in front of it. Was an absolute PoS! Was so bad I wasn't even mad, just laughed it off and left the game.

[Skywalkre]

There's another strike against the tier 10 (and likely tier 9 since they're the same bloody thing): it's incredibly easy to keep them perma-tracked. The tracks are enormous and near impossible to miss and repair time seemed exceedingly long for a tank with a 92% repair crew. I spent one game in it yesterday in the same spot for several minutes simply because 2 enemy heavies kept tracking me and my repair time was just never fast enough to move before the next disabling hit came.

[Skywalkre]

So this is kind of a big deal. You can mount vents on vert stabs on the upper tier heavies. The reason I didn't think you could is because the UI is bugged. When you click on the box to equip a piece of equipment the list goes up and behind the top bar with the Battle button and it won't let you scroll up. With my resolution it almost perfectly matched with the end of one item and the bottom of the bar so I figured there just weren't any more options.

[Skywalkre]

Along the lines of the Japanese heavy line being a waste of time and resources I've put in about 20 games so far on the PTR and there simply aren't any of those tanks in the game. At most there's been maybe 1 other Japanese heavy not counting myself if I'm in one. I wouldn't be surprised, given my first impression (tried some of the others and they're bad), if this patch goes live and you don't even notice there's a new tree because no one will be playing it.

[TonyE]

Quirky as they may be i do like the Type 89 I-GO and the Type 91 heavies introduced with the latest patch, in some battles half the team had I-GOs.

[jwduquette1]

Speaking of godzilla's...I'm curious as to peoples opinions as to the utility of the O-I in tier VI clan wars and tier VI strongholds. I know Tier VI CW is likely below many folkz interest level, but the clan I'm in is pretty new to CW so this tier grouping seemed like a good way to test the waters.

 

Anywhoo...I've noticed that the go-to heavy for many clans in T6 CW has been the T-150 with a sprinkling of dudes playing the M6 or KV-85. If I have to play a heavy, I personally prefer the KV-85 for its ability to flex -- but I seem to be a minority (I actually prefer mediums or lights in CW and SH and usually play M37, Cromwell-B or Rudy -- but there are occasions when we feel the need for heavies. But I digress). On paper the O-I actually looks better than the T-150 -- O-I has more hit points than the T-150. The O-I's 100mm gun has better handling characteristics, better pen and slightly faster reload than the T-150's 107mm. O-I also has a better selection of guns. The O-I derp is comparable to the KV-2 derp giving the O-I the ability to fill the roll as a KV-2 if that is something your clan fiddles with. A lot of clans that like to play turtle tactics will invariably toss 2 or 3 KV-2s into a match. The O-I gun depression is excellent -- O-I has -10-degrees depression; the T-150 only 7-degrees. The O-I turns faster than the T-150. The O-I also has considerably greater view range than the T-150 -- valuable mid to late match when there's only a few tanks left on either side. Both tanks are pretty comparable in terms of speed -- slow -- but not TOG slow.

 

With the paper stats in hand I decided to free exp up to the O-I and give it a go in randoms. First match in it was T6 on Mines. Easily did almost 2000 in damage with the 100mm main gun. Bounced 750 in damage without even trying to be clever about angling or side-scraping. Got a bunch of badges and medal thingies for the match. I was impressed with this turd looking behemoth (it is literally huge compared with other heavies -- even more monstrous than the TOG). It actually looks like a mistake in the scale department of WG -- that's how huge it looks.

 

Played in in several tier 8 matches and I held my own in the O-I. Although I did end up getting one shotted by arty in one match. Sooo....It is so huge I'm thinking I'm not too interested in playing it in randoms mostly due to arty. I'm able to shrug off tier 6 arty pretty well with it -- the FV304 seems to struggle with doing damage to the O-I. Was hit several times by an FV304 in a match and all the shots resulted in zero damage (i'm not running a spall liner). But Tier 8 arty wrecks this thing.

 

So any opinions yet on O-I vs.T-150?

Edited September 3, 2015 by jwduquette1

[Skywalkre]

What are the rules for tier 6 CW? Same as tier 10 (15 tanks, any comp) but just limited to tier 6?

 

I haven't played much lately but I don't know why things would have changed at that tier. Back in the last campaign I took part in there was a tier 6 portion and the top clans did the same thing they did (and still do from what I understand) in tier 6 SHs: they ran all lights/meds (from side comments I've seen I gather some of the new premiums that have been released since I took a break may be decent at this tier). Regardless of map, urban or open, that comp always dominated. My clan at the time, who was just a notch below the best on the server, tried heavies during that campaign and never found any real use for them (though kept trying to make them work, unfortunately).

[jwduquette1]

Rules are all the same except team sizes (divisions) in tier 6 cw are only 7 players. The best clans seem to run a lot of type 64s and maybe one heavy hitting TD... like an SU-100y. They'll poke...spot ...flex until they find a weakness. If they're facing off against a turtle team they'll pick away at it. And they'll creep the TD up to max render distance for big hitting.

 

But on provinces with smaller maps like Ensk or the like I see a lot of clans running 4 or 5 heavies. Lots of T-150s.

Edited September 4, 2015 by jwduquette1

[Colin]

Just being playing and the lower tiers jap heavies are owning the games, mainly due to their gun.

[Edmund]

I played two battles in the Type 91 (Free xp past Type 89) and I was on the bottom in both games. I was platooned with my son and he was in a Marder II. We were the only T3 on our team and there was only a couple of T4's. Everything else was T5's. Mostly O-I exp, KV-1's and T1's. Sure the 47mm can hurt them some. But the damage isn't enough. Haven't tried the 75mm. I may free my way to the O-I exp.

[TonyE]

The number of Type 91s and 95s is rather high in the lower games so frequently i end up in games with 5-7 others of the same two types, rather fun to play battles with many of the same type of vehicle rather than the museum collection variety that is common in WOT.

[Skywalkre]

Rules are all the same except team sizes (divisions) in tier 6 cw are only 7 players. The best clans seem to run a lot of type 64s and maybe one heavy hitting TD... like an SU-100y. They'll poke...spot ...flex until they find a weakness. If they're facing off against a turtle team they'll pick away at it. And they'll creep the TD up to max render distance for big hitting.

 

But on provinces with smaller maps like Ensk or the like I see a lot of clans running 4 or 5 heavies. Lots of T-150s.

So it's just like SHs, then. Are any of these teams running heavies on those maps any good? I did quite a bit of SHs, calling them at the end as well, and the all light/med (plus the lone TD... we did that a few times as well and it worked great) route should still be good on every map you'll ever see. The hp disparity just isn't as great as at tier 10, the view range advantage is ridiculous, and gold rounds from those lights will have no issue with heavies of the same tier.

 

I know a lot of guys in my clan blew off tier 6 SHs but it ended up being great practice. You have a smaller team and you can work on basics like actually following fucking orders, focusing targets that are called out, and calling out enemy info (like tank x just fired, turret is pointed in y direction, etc.).

 

If you all are serious about getting better I'd focus on going that route and emulating what the best players are doing at that tier.

[jwduquette1]

Some of our callers have a tendency toward gloaming onto whatever force mix beat them in their last match. So if they got beat on a province by a clan running a bunch of heavies, they instantly feel like the optimum division make-up for the nxt match is a bunch of heavies.

 

I think in general our clan does its best, and is most consistent, when running a mix of 1-2 lights with the balance being mediums...crommies and T-34/85s. However we also have a player base in our clan that isn't as savvy in terms of optimum tanks at any given tier. They dont always own the right tanks and some dont really try to educate themselves on what tanks work in CW & SH vs what tanks might be fun to play in randoms. We always need bodies to fill divisions on nights where we are getting attacked from multiple directions or the like. Sooo,,,whatcha gonna do? The end result is often divisions with very eclectic tank mixes. Always irritating to try and control a force mix with hugely varying vehicle speeds.

 

I'm more of the opinion that our force mix can sometimes be tailored to a specific map and a specific map plan. Assuming a caller develops some real map tactics for a specific match and doesnt just do the "everyone go the 1-2 line" or the like. In one sense this is much easier to do in CW than SH as you always know what map your going to be playing on in a CW match well before the match. Conversely in SH its random maps and somewhat more of a fly by the seat of your pants -- a lot of repeat calls of whatever worked last time we played a specific map. There are still a lot of basics that need to be hammered out among my clans membership. It will just take some time.

 

But back to the O-I -- it's a new tank so I figured I'd give it a whirl just to get a feel for its capabilities and such and its potential for CW & SH. I did run it in a number of SH matches last night and did pretty well with it. 3 wins, no losses. But my sense is that its value -- just like T-150s -- will be situational in CW or SH. I think its viable on specific maps with fairly specific tactical goals and map strategies laid out before entering a match.

[bojan]

Are any of these teams running heavies on those maps any good?...

 

We ran TOGs at Himmelsdorf and Ensk during tier 6 of previous campaign.

[Skywalkre]

Some of our callers have a tendency toward gloaming onto whatever force mix beat them in their last match. So if they got beat on a province by a clan running a bunch of heavies, they instantly feel like the optimum division make-up for the nxt match is a bunch of heavies.

 

I think in general our clan does its best, and is most consistent, when running a mix of 1-2 lights with the balance being mediums...crommies and T-34/85s. However we also have a player base in our clan that isn't as savvy in terms of optimum tanks at any given tier. They dont always own the right tanks and some dont really try to educate themselves on what tanks work in CW & SH vs what tanks might be fun to play in randoms. We always need bodies to fill divisions on nights where we are getting attacked from multiple directions or the like. Sooo,,,whatcha gonna do? The end result is often divisions with very eclectic tank mixes. Always irritating to try and control a force mix with hugely varying vehicle speeds.

 

I'm more of the opinion that our force mix can sometimes be tailored to a specific map and a specific map plan. Assuming a caller develops some real map tactics for a specific match and doesnt just do the "everyone go the 1-2 line" or the like. In one sense this is much easier to do in CW than SH as you always know what map your going to be playing on in a CW match well before the match. Conversely in SH its random maps and somewhat more of a fly by the seat of your pants -- a lot of repeat calls of whatever worked last time we played a specific map. There are still a lot of basics that need to be hammered out among my clans membership. It will just take some time.

I'm reminded of a phrase that's popular at my work... "It is what it is."

 

Sorry to hear. In the end your clan is content with being... not very good. Unfortunately this seems to be a staple of online gaming since I started doing it nearly 20 years ago. There must be something in human nature where they'd rather do something their own way and be bad than learn from others, build on that, and be good. It's a big reason I finally gave the middle finger to my old clan and stopped doing CWs. It just wears on you after a while...

[kamel]

I've found the O-I Exp to be a blast, although I do prefer the stock Derp gun. Yes I've died fast on occasion... but in general, kicked arse over and over.

 

When I'm top tier, I find I can bully my way through defenders one shotting them left and right.

 

When bottom tier. I sit back behind a ridge and lob HE at anything in range. The rate of fire and high shell arc means I can screw up anything that sits still.

 

As for ramming... I've punted Tiger P's, gotten FV304's stuck in my tracks, reversed over ELC's trying to be cute, and had a VK30.01 T-bone me at full speed for 100% of his health. Just being able to bulldoze enemy heavies out of a chokepoint while derping them in the face is amazing. I've pushed a wrecked churchill sideways ahead of me as a shield...

 

I've researched the O-I... but I'm keeping the exp just for shits and giggles and to buff my W/L ratio.