R011 Posted December 6, 2023 Posted December 6, 2023 6 hours ago, TrustMe said: She wanted AIDS victims to be sent to concentration camps, I remember her news articles in the Sun newspaper. She was actively anti-gay. She brought in the horrible Poll Tax system that caused the worst riots in a generation throughout the country in 1990. She destroyed the manufacturing industry purely for anti-union politics reasons. She doubled unemployment in her first term in office. Only her victory in the Falklands war allowed her a second term. Her economic poilicy's resulted in "boom and bust" throughout the 1980's That's just the couple of things I can think on top of my head. She may of appeared good to people from abroad but not to me. I'm sure people in the US have things to talk about to your leaders. Things to argue about for sure, but hardly fascist. Where's the one party state? Where's the Party controlled media, unions, and judiciary? Where was the purge of Parliament?
Stuart Galbraith Posted December 6, 2023 Posted December 6, 2023 Well... remembering those times, the rhetoric was heavy on both sides. Everyone on the left was a communist sympathizer (and they were really serious about that, some of them anyway). And everyone on the right was a son of Enoch Powell at best, at worst inheritor of Oswald Mosley. Id hoped we had moved on from those days, but the right seems desperate to invoke them to have something to make them truly different from the left. I think Thatcher was bad enough for the country without invoking the term fascist. She wasnt. Although certainly there were elements of her policies, not least turning out the police on the miners, beating up hippies, using them to break up civil disputes in Fleet street, that certainly looked like a road to that at the time. She also had some right wing friends, such as Airy Neave, whom thought that locking up IRA suspects without trial was a good idea. One of those people the IRA would probably have damaged us more by letting him live. She also didnt single handedly destroy British industry. it was perfectly good at doing that itself without her intervention. OTOH, I do remember Sir John Harvey Jones, the director of ICI, went to her looking for economic support to restructure the company, and she basically told him to rock off. ICI it will be remembered is now defunct. Compare and contrast to Rolls Royce that went to Ted Heath a decade and a half earlier, and did get support. There was a lot of unhealthy ideological crap clogging government in that period, and it clings to our boots still. No, she wasnt a fascist. But Id happily settle for fucking idiot, and the worst of it, she was still far better than Boris and David Cameron.
urbanoid Posted December 6, 2023 Posted December 6, 2023 15 hours ago, TrustMe said: She wanted AIDS victims to be sent to concentration camps, I remember her news articles in the Sun newspaper. She was actively anti-gay. She brought in the horrible Poll Tax system that caused the worst riots in a generation throughout the country in 1990. She destroyed the manufacturing industry purely for anti-union politics reasons. She doubled unemployment in her first term in office. Only her victory in the Falklands war allowed her a second term. Her economic poilicy's resulted in "boom and bust" throughout the 1980's That's just the couple of things I can think on top of my head. She may of appeared good to people from abroad but not to me. I'm sure people in the US have things to talk about to your leaders. "Thatcher was one of the few Conservative MPs to support Leo Abse's bill to decriminalise male homosexuality"
Stuart Galbraith Posted December 6, 2023 Posted December 6, 2023 (edited) Against which to have to weigh how she actually behaved towards Gays in office, which was perceived as heavy handed. the AIDS advertising was ridiculous, and the community felt they were under threat, not just from the disease by from the heavy hand of Government holding them wholly responsible. You can look back at the music videos of the time, and yes, over the top though they were, they were an accurate representation of how gay people felt back then, marginalised, and with the heavy hand of Government on their back. My favourite story was when the police were sent round to raid a gay club where comedian Lily Savage (Paul O Grady) was performing. They were all wearing shoulder length gloves to protect against getting AIDS (dont ask...) and Lily Savage says. 'Eh up girls, we have got some help with the washing up!' Authoritarian compared to Eastern Europe? Certainly not. Compared to the British average? It was a return to the 1950's, after the lax and open 1970's. Which was par for the course for the Government looking back. Edited December 6, 2023 by Stuart Galbraith
TrustMe Posted December 6, 2023 Posted December 6, 2023 People can believe what they want. I lived through it, not just web searched for Thatcher.
EchoFiveMike Posted December 6, 2023 Posted December 6, 2023 They clearly weren't fascist, if they were, AIDS would not have been a thing. Had they actively quarantined and isolated the fags with AIDS even 1/2 as hard as they went after COVID, they could have stopped the spread and it would have burned itself out in the festering Petrie dish urban enclaves. In fact it was quite the opposite, fuckers worked to spread the AIDS into the normal human community, "to force people to care." they actively said such. These narcistic fuckers still actively try to spread diseases, demanding homos and other high risk groups be able to donate blood etc etc. S/F....Ken M
Wobbly Head Posted December 6, 2023 Posted December 6, 2023 9 hours ago, Stuart Galbraith said: No, she wasnt a fascist. But Id happily settle for fucking idiot, and the worst of it, she was still far better than Boris and David Cameron. Well that's not exactly setting the bar very high. It's more like creating a tripping Hazzard.
R011 Posted December 6, 2023 Posted December 6, 2023 3 hours ago, TrustMe said: People can believe what they want. I lived through it, not just web searched for Thatcher. You're not the only one here who did.
TrustMe Posted December 6, 2023 Posted December 6, 2023 Kinda true, but I didn't know any Canadian politics in the 1980's. Ergo i'm surprised that you know English ones.
R011 Posted December 6, 2023 Posted December 6, 2023 4 hours ago, TrustMe said: Kinda true, but I didn't know any Canadian politics in the 1980's. Ergo i'm surprised that you know English ones. I know what fascism is and Thatcher wasn't it. I'm also far from the only one commenting on this and note that I haven't commented on whether I agreed with her policies or not.
Stuart Galbraith Posted December 7, 2023 Posted December 7, 2023 14 hours ago, Wobbly Head said: Well that's not exactly setting the bar very high. It's more like creating a tripping Hazzard. Yeah, that was pretty much the 1980's as I remember it. Its funny, not long ago on BBC Parliament they repeated the election coverage of the 1979 election. I could actually remember some of it, which considering I was only 6 at the time was some achievement. My father went off that morning uttering dark warnings of what was to befall the nation, which credit to the guy, he pretty much nailed. Anyway, they actually interviewed the Union guy who organised many of the 'Winter of Discontent' strikes, and asked him, do you feel responsible for this? 'Oh no, I dont think so' he replied. Dozy cunt. Hope all his members got laid off.
TrustMe Posted December 7, 2023 Posted December 7, 2023 14 hours ago, R011 said: I know what fascism is and Thatcher wasn't it. I'm also far from the only one commenting on this and note that I haven't commented on whether I agreed with her policies or not. If making policies like rounding up people who have never commited a cime and putting them in a concerntration camp for forever is not fascism I don't know what is.
rmgill Posted December 7, 2023 Posted December 7, 2023 (edited) 19 minutes ago, TrustMe said: If making policies like rounding up people who have never commited a cime and putting them in a concerntration camp for forever is not fascism I don't know what is. You don't have to go as far as concentration camps, you don't encourage them to give blood and you don't PAY them to give blood and spread it to folks who aren't even sexually active. You certainly don't argue that it's their RIGHT to give blood and that it's homophobic if they're not allowed to do so. Now, if I go over to the COVID thread, I'll see you labeling Australia as fascist right? Edited December 7, 2023 by rmgill
Stuart Galbraith Posted December 7, 2023 Posted December 7, 2023 11 minutes ago, rmgill said: You don't have to go as far as concentration camps, you don't encourage them to give blood and you don't PAY them to give blood and spread it to folks who aren't even sexually active. You certainly don't argue that it's their RIGHT to give blood and that it's homophobic if they're not allowed to do so. Now, if I go over to the COVID thread, I'll see you labeling Australia as fascist right? Ryan, we have never paid to give blood in the UK. The Commies were confused about that in 1983 as well.
rmgill Posted December 7, 2023 Posted December 7, 2023 1 hour ago, Stuart Galbraith said: Ryan, we have never paid to give blood in the UK. The Commies were confused about that in 1983 as well. IT was something done here. And I've had numerous arguments with folks who consider it a violation of someones civil rights to NOT accept blood from them in donation to the American Red Cross or other blood banks. None of them cared that the tests for the longest time could not necessarily discern the presence of an infection if there was no substantial antibodies yet.
TrustMe Posted December 7, 2023 Posted December 7, 2023 2 hours ago, rmgill said: You don't have to go as far as concentration camps, you don't encourage them to give blood and you don't PAY them to give blood and spread it to folks who aren't even sexually active. You certainly don't argue that it's their RIGHT to give blood and that it's homophobic if they're not allowed to do so. Now, if I go over to the COVID thread, I'll see you labeling Australia as fascist right? Tory newspapers and many MP's were talking about rounding them up just like that.
rmgill Posted December 7, 2023 Posted December 7, 2023 24 minutes ago, TrustMe said: Tory newspapers and many MP's were talking about rounding them up just like that. New York has a regulation vague enough to allow the imprisonment of anyone for control of a virulent outbreak. Doesn't matter if they're sick or not.
Stuart Galbraith Posted December 7, 2023 Posted December 7, 2023 Can you imagine what would have happened if they had done that during Covid?
TrustMe Posted December 7, 2023 Posted December 7, 2023 2 hours ago, rmgill said: New York has a regulation vague enough to allow the imprisonment of anyone for control of a virulent outbreak. Doesn't matter if they're sick or not. I'm glad I don't live in New York then.
R011 Posted December 7, 2023 Posted December 7, 2023 9 hours ago, TrustMe said: If making policies like rounding up people who have never commited a cime and putting them in a concerntration camp for forever is not fascism I don't know what is. Quarantines have a long history even in democracies. They used to have camps for people with leprosy, for instance, before modern treatments made that unnecessary. Individuals could be require to quarantine themselves, and we have most recently seen whole countries subjected to quarantine orders.
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