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Because The United Kingdom?


Mr King

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2 hours ago, johnthejock said:

On a more seasonal note happy new year to you all 

And as I am in Yorkshire now a little bit of fun relating to local seasonal fauna

only in Scarborough.....then again not sure about whitby 

 

 

Instead of Phill the Groundhog, we have Walter the Wanking Walrus. You can see the greatness that occurs  when you export all your puritans.

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5 hours ago, Harold Jones said:

I think the idea is that the Pilgrims were what today we would call fundamentalists (they left England because the puritans weren't strict enough) and that their rules and customs influenced the American attitude towards alcohol, drugs, sex, and public morality up to today.  It's obviously not literally true since in the end they constituted a minor footnote in the history of the US, but it's a handy hook to hang a blanket condemnation on.

not nearly as bad as the Soviets/Commie apologists (including my family) rhetoric that the US was a nation of criminals and syphilitics as well as a race of mongrels.

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21 hours ago, sunday said:

Predestination is a belief more or less common among all Protestant denominations, as far as I recall.

Not reason to condemn all Protestants, as there have been, are, and will be good enough people among those of the Protestant faith.

Ah, Montrose:

 

clearly not Ronnie Montrose:

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1 hour ago, NickM said:

clearly not Ronnie Montrose:

yeah good music but yeah another montrose 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Graham%2C_1st_Marquess_of_Montrose

a military genius, but hey we even have a town called Montrose ...

 

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21 hours ago, johnthejock said:

yeah good music but yeah another montrose 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Graham%2C_1st_Marquess_of_Montrose

a military genius, but hey we even have a town called Montrose ...

 

There are a few of those around. The Grahams and their septs Montrose, Menteith, Montieth, seemed to be relatively successful.  

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37 minutes ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

I'm rapidly losing the will to live.

 

WOW!  He kind of closed that door himself, well he and his spouse.  You think he might develop some self awareness, but apparently not.  

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3 hours ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

Ok, so here is some homework. Go and read up on Cadburys Bourneville Village. Even better, it was socially minded Capitalists that built it. 

I din't care that x or y built it. I am sticking under your nose the fact that socialism had the humongous body count last century.  You can't keep pointing to acts by religious groups hundreds of years ago and ignore that organized state run socialism still enslaves people to this very hour. 
 

For socialism writ large to work it must enslave. It runs out of money otherwise because it specifically selects against self correction internally. Christian beliefs don't require that to function. Why is it, I the atheist, understands that better than you, the christian, socialist who can't seem to tell the difference and who is fine with folks being arrested for prayer?

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5 hours ago, rmgill said:

I din't care that x or y built it. I am sticking under your nose the fact that socialism had the humongous body count last century.  You can't keep pointing to acts by religious groups hundreds of years ago and ignore that organized state run socialism still enslaves people to this very hour. 
 

For socialism writ large to work it must enslave. It runs out of money otherwise because it specifically selects against self correction internally. Christian beliefs don't require that to function. Why is it, I the atheist, understands that better than you, the christian, socialist who can't seem to tell the difference and who is fine with folks being arrested for prayer?

Cadbury Village sounds like a Potemkin Village that actually worked.

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It could be bloody Portmeirion. But on a microcosm it's all fine. If you can vote people off the island to have a functional hippie commune that works too. But if you have to accept that you're paying for peoeple who won't work but if you do work, you're getting your labor taken and given to others that don't it's not going to work. More so, with a small scale village, if you don't like how it's done, you can move out of the village to someplace where they don't have the functional equivalent of the Stasi looking over your shoulder on everything you do. Scale it up to a state or nation and the wheels come off badly. 

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The Gab Files: UK Government Demands Gab Ban A User For “Stirring Up Hatred”

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Gab is going to begin publishing the purely censorship-based inbound requests that we receive from governments. These are the cases where for the most part European bodies like the Met and Europol send us transparently political takedown requests with no law enforcement purpose. Essentially they’re trying to silence a person that they’ve already thrown in prison or are about to. If they don’t want us to talk about these frivolous requests, they can stop sending them to us.

Quote

They didn’t tell us who the person is who allegedly broke this dystopian nonsense law, they didn’t tell us whether the content which they convicted him of was found on our site, and they didn’t specify which posts, if any, actually violated UK law.

They simply told us that they imprisoned someone for expressing wrongthink online, that person had a Gab account and the UK government expected us to unperson this person from the Internet at their behest when no violation of our TOS was found.

 

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10 hours ago, rmgill said:

I din't care that x or y built it. I am sticking under your nose the fact that socialism had the humongous body count last century.  You can't keep pointing to acts by religious groups hundreds of years ago and ignore that organized state run socialism still enslaves people to this very hour. 
 

For socialism writ large to work it must enslave. It runs out of money otherwise because it specifically selects against self correction internally. Christian beliefs don't require that to function. Why is it, I the atheist, understands that better than you, the christian, socialist who can't seem to tell the difference and who is fine with folks being arrested for prayer?

Then why comment on something that you have absolutely no knowledge or interest of?

 

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4 hours ago, NickM said:

Cadbury Village sounds like a Potemkin Village that actually worked.

There you go, the gentleman get's it.

And it wasnt the only British industrialist that did that kind of thing. The earliest example I know of is Cromford Village, which was built by Richard Arkwright. If I recall correctly from Bill Brysons book, again there was no pubs. But people were housed in good conditions and were, for the time, well paid for their work. They even had flexitime.

https://www.cromfordmills.org.uk/cromford-village/

Port Sunlight, built by the Lever group.

https://www.portsunlightvillage.com/about-port-sunlight/

Then there is Swindon new town built to serve the Great Western Railway works. Having been in one of these I cannot say they are huge residences. But they were comfortable, dry, and they even had their own employment health scheme. All before there were any Socialists in the factory actively campaigning for it.

https://mechanics-trust.org.uk/railway-village/

I guess the point I was making that went right over Ryans head. If Industrialists the world over actually showed anything like the paternal care of these people, actually treated their workers with respect, there would be no need for socialism. And in fact, in the countries that generally have treated their workers with respect, coincidentally Socialism as a political movement fell off a cliff.

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38 minutes ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

There you go, the gentleman get's it.

And it wasnt the only British industrialist that did that kind of thing. The earliest example I know of is Cromford Village, which was built by Richard Arkwright. If I recall correctly from Bill Brysons book, again there was no pubs. But people were housed in good conditions and were, for the time, well paid for their work. They even had flexitime.

https://www.cromfordmills.org.uk/cromford-village/

Port Sunlight, built by the Lever group.

https://www.portsunlightvillage.com/about-port-sunlight/

Then there is Swindon new town built to serve the Great Western Railway works. Having been in one of these I cannot say they are huge residences. But they were comfortable, dry, and they even had their own employment health scheme. All before there were any Socialists in the factory actively campaigning for it.

https://mechanics-trust.org.uk/railway-village/

I guess the point I was making that went right over Ryans head. If Industrialists the world over actually showed anything like the paternal care of these people, actually treated their workers with respect, there would be no need for socialism. And in fact, in the countries that generally have treated their workers with respect, coincidentally Socialism as a political movement fell off a cliff.

Bolden part, which industrialized countries are these?

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43 minutes ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

There you go, the gentleman get's it.

And it wasnt the only British industrialist that did that kind of thing. The earliest example I know of is Cromford Village, which was built by Richard Arkwright. If I recall correctly from Bill Brysons book, again there was no pubs. But people were housed in good conditions and were, for the time, well paid for their work. They even had flexitime.

https://www.cromfordmills.org.uk/cromford-village/

Port Sunlight, built by the Lever group.

https://www.portsunlightvillage.com/about-port-sunlight/

Then there is Swindon new town built to serve the Great Western Railway works. Having been in one of these I cannot say they are huge residences. But they were comfortable, dry, and they even had their own employment health scheme. All before there were any Socialists in the factory actively campaigning for it.

https://mechanics-trust.org.uk/railway-village/

I guess the point I was making that went right over Ryans head. If Industrialists the world over actually showed anything like the paternal care of these people, actually treated their workers with respect, there would be no need for socialism. And in fact, in the countries that generally have treated their workers with respect, coincidentally Socialism as a political movement fell off a cliff.

Dont forget New Lanark which is also linked to Arkwright, David Dale's work after him here is well known, but the philathropic works elsewhere in Scotland is hardly known about, but as highly impressive as any of the later quakers, it is a UNESCO site which is well worth the visit

https://www.newlanark.org/

 

 

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33 minutes ago, Rick said:

Bolden part, which industrialized countries are these?

The difficulty with answering your question comes down to your idea of socialism.  If you think socialism means a reasonably civilized system of health care, payment of a reasonable living wage without requiring tips to survive, democracies where it is one person one vote and actual majority of votes matter.... then any country that I could name as having these, you would consider them to be socialist countries. 

Edited by DougRichards
misspelling
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Some of the "model villages" predate the industrial revolution, with a number being built for rural communities, for farm workers. In general, though, there was significant pressure to move to cities and industrial jobs because, well, there were jobs. The average city worker was likely to be better off than the average farm worker.

Also, the biggest improvements in working conditions and the abolition of (most) indentured labour practices predates the unions by some time.

Also, Ryan demonstrates yet again that he's not interested in learning anything, he has his own narrative to push and damn the torpedoes.

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1 hour ago, DougRichards said:

The difficulty with answering your question comes down to your idea of socialism.  If you think socialism means a reasonably civilized system of health care, payment of a reasonable living wage without requiring tips to survive, democracies where it is one person one vote and actual majority of votes matter.... then any country that I could name as having these, you would consider them to be socialist countries. 

Good statements. Have not thought of it as you are. 

I would ask who decides what is fair and just? What is the basis of their judgment as to what is fair and just?

As to your "... actual majority of votes matter..." A curious example is the voting map of the U.S. federal elections done in red for -- U.S. versions -- of conservatives and blue for liberals. Geographically, iirc in every state,  most of the U.S. is colored red. Yet in Congress the U.S. is split about 50:50. Does the majority of voters clustered in the cities have complete control of those who do not live in said cities? The plight of California comes to my mind. To answer my own question, our Founding Fathers had the brilliant solution of how the House of Representatives is voted for and how the Senate is voted for. 

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5 hours ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

I guess the point I was making that went right over Ryans head. If Industrialists the world over actually showed anything like the paternal care of these people, actually treated their workers with respect, there would be no need for socialism. And in fact, in the countries that generally have treated their workers with respect, coincidentally Socialism as a political movement fell off a cliff.

If governments had the level of respect for individual rights, they'd not try socialism and we'd not have this frequent habit of mass murder and enslavement. AND they'd protect individual rights from those industrialists when they went too far by protecting individual rights and acting as the proper arbiter of rights of the individual vs the rights of business owners. 

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