The Middle East War

[Simon Tan]

Poland has a thriving coal industry! Britain has no need for filthy coal...it has....errr....gas.

[urbanoid]

Tell me how it is different from putting Reza Shah Pahlavi in to replace Mossadegh? If you look backwards perpeatually, you will stay there. KSA and Wahhabism is toxic construct. It has largely fuelled and formed the condition. Is it any surprise with attitudes expressed that Iraq was lost in 3 years? Iranian regional hegemony was a good thing with Reza Shah but a bad thing with Khameini. Iranian nukes were a good thing under Reza Shah but bad under Khameini. These dogmatic positions are how the Revolution has remained in power despite everything.

It is also why failure is almost inevitable and poor decisions will be made.

 

It's different because Reza was an ally, Mossadegh was at least flirting with the enemies (and look at the times when it happened), and Khomeini was an outright enemy.

 

I known wahhabism is toxic, we may drop them durkas to do durka things after some breakthrough is achieved - i.e. we don't need oil or at least not as much as now. Where wahhabism should be curbed is the West, there should be ban/limits for funding radicals. immigration from shitty places etc. Actually this should be one of the conditions imposed on the Saudis & Co. Do as we say, or else...

 

As for 'thriving coal industry', well ... I wish it was so.

[urbanoid]

British Coal is rather good to burn, or at least was. Its not like the cheap shit we insist in buying from South America or part of Eastern Europe. I mean no disrespect to my Polish friends when I say Russian coal is far superior to most of the stuff sourced in Eastern Europe. Which would be good news, if our relations with them were not almost as bad as they are with the middle east at the moment.

 

The coal itself may not be that bad, the problem with it is that it's quite deep, what in turn makes it expensive. Still, it's critical for our energy independence. Russians have theirs from strip mines, it's a lot cheaper.

[swerve]

It was notable that the massive oil field that was found in the home counties was not trumped much higher when they realised it meant screwing up much of the home counties to get at it.

 

 

For good reasons. Nobody doubted that there's some oil down there, & possibly quite a lot, but the small firm that was claiming on the basis of a single small test hole that it had found massive reserves extending over a big area was not believed. They'd extrapolated from a very small area. I think there was a suspicion it was trying to hype it up to attract investors. Big firms weren't much interested. Some said in effect "Yes there's some shale oil, but we're not at all sure we could make any money extracting it". The geology is difficult, & there'd be a lot of costs associated with the nature of the area. Plonking lots of wells (& that's what it'd have to be, because of the geology) in relatively densely populated countryside with high land values, lots of building already, etc. is neither cheap nor easy.

Edited January 7, 2016 by swerve

[Panzermann]

It does rather illustrate how very badly the European nations have reflected on what energy reserves they have, need, and can safely dispose of, and decided instead to supply all their energy needs from crackpots, dictators, religious lunatics and unstable markets from across the globe.

 

its almost as if nobody considered anything.

It is cheap and convenient. That was all that mattered. Who cares for long term supply? The managers and politicians responsible are all out of office if there is a problem in the future.

[Simon Tan]

I has to do with all the people who 'live' in the Cotswolds on the weekend wanting to keep everything looking like a Victorian postcard.

 

In other news KSA put the squeeze on Sunni 'states'. Somalia cut ties with Iran and PA backs KSA 'in everything'. Mohammed is trying to compensate. There must be very bad news from Najran and Jizan. I'm waiting for the squeeze on Malaysia...

[swerve]

In this country nobody owns land. We operate a modification of the mediaeval system, in which one has (possibly in perpetuity) rights over a piece of land, not absolute ownership of it. And mineral rights are usually separate. I, for example, own in perpetuity my house & the land on which it sits, & the right not to be disturbed in my possession of it. I don't own any minerals deep down, & someone used to have a right to collect an annual charge of £1 from the owner of this plot. That's lapsed, because it had not been enforced for many years by the time I bought my house, but it shows the sort of thing that can exist here. Manors (in the sense of a bundle of rights attached to a piece of land which others have different rights over) can still exist here.

 

I've digressed a bit, but think about the complications of separate ownership of the land & the minerals under it. Extraction of them needs negotiation with the landowners, & they have to trust whoever's doing the extraction to behave, & pay any promised compensation for access.

 

BTW, private extraction is very common. The nationalised coal & steel industries were aberrations, historically.

Edited January 7, 2016 by swerve

[JasonJ]

Would you like some coal with that tea sir?

 

Was a totally random thought

[glenn239]

 

Urbanoid That would leave Iran as a sole hegemon in the region. I'd still rather have the Sauds in power, in the end they are incompetent and dependent on the West, mainly the US. They buy stuff for billions and spend next billions because are unable to maintain it. There's a degree to which they can be controlled, unlike Iran, which is a much bigger threat to current geopolitical order, which is still favourable for the West.

 

 

The rule is better the devil you know than the devil you don’t. That covers both the Saudis and the Iranians.

 

Saudi largess is a symptom of us letting them have it easy. We let them have it less easy, they will get less lazy and inefficient. So, let's support the Saudis less, but not kick them all the way to the curb. Put up with more Iranian shit than before, but not to the level of inviting them in the house.

 

Iranian hegemony in the Middle East is a laughable concept. They’ll have trouble enough just getting their domestic front through the next couple decades.

 

If the Iranians and Saudis trade blows, let ‘em. But once they’ve had a bit of fun, the Russians can send in S-400 to Iran and the Americans can send in Patriots to the Kingdom and both can start killing anything that moves over national air space that’s not supposed to be there.

Edited January 7, 2016 by glenn239

[JWB]

The most likely result of KSA fall is the rise of the Wahhabi Republic.

[swerve]

Re extraction, all coal extraction in the UK was private once upon a time. The central problem that held it back for many years was the depth required, and the requirement to pump out pits. That created the requirement for large infrastructure which drove the costs up, and eventually killed it. But shallow drift mines remained profitable for many years. I mentioned the forrest of dean, but at the Black Country museum in Dudley they have a very well preserved shallow drift mine. No cage or any pump required. If it had all been that shallow, we would never have needed an NCB. And quite likely miners unions would not have arisen to the same degree because dangers would have been much less.

Who says we ever needed an NCB? UK coal production peaked before WW1, mostly deep-mined, from over 3000 mines - all privately owned, mostly by firms that owned one or a few mines. The NCB was founded in 1946 & mines nationalised on 01.01.1947. It took over 958 mines, & the number fell every year thereafter.

[Corinthian]

Please. Can we skip the whole border rearrangement thing and just be done with the Middle East by extending the Indian Ocean northwards to link with the Caspian and Black seas? Gonna give Russia that warm water port they've always been wanting, now with direct access to the Indian Ocean as there won't be any annoying landmasses in between.

[JasonJ]

 

Please. Can we skip the whole border rearrangement thing and just be done with the Middle East by extending the Indian Ocean northwards to link with the Caspian and Black seas? Gonna give Russia that warm water port they've always been wanting, now with direct access to the Indian Ocean as there won't be any annoying landmasses in between.

 

Im all for taking a leaf out of King Offas book and build a huge dyke round it.

 

Would you like some coal with that tea sir?

 

Was a totally random thought

 

Only if its South Wales coal. None of that furriner muck if you please.

 

 

Yes of course, here you are sir, please enjoy your tea.

 

[lucklucky]

Anything is nationalized by ideological reasons.

[Corinthian]

 

Im all for taking a leaf out of King Offas book and build a huge dyke round it.

 

 

 

Huge dyke you say? I had to scrub my computer after doing that google search damn you....

[Simon Tan]

Saudi needs your money to fund their wars. This is why they are proposing to privatize Aramco. Unfortunately that is going to be very difficult since Saudi will have sovreign overridings. Mohammed the Idiot is confident there are suckers galore out there. If anyone wanted the Saudi reserves, it would be without the Saudis.

[lucklucky]

In this case the Labour won the elections and went to a bizarre -even for socialists- policy of permanent rationing post war. While the nationalisation is just what Socialists do.

[lucklucky]

Turkey Plans To Deploy In Qatar

 

 

ANKARA [MENL] -- Turkey plans to deploy thousands of troops in Qatar.
Officials said Qatar has agreed to a substantial Turkish military
presence in the Gulf Cooperation Council emirate. They said Ankara would
send at least 3,000 troops to Doha by 2017 as part of expanded military
cooperation.
"This is the first step of a very serious alliance," an official said.
In 2014, Ankara and Doha signed an agreement to establish Turkey's first
military base abroad. Officials said Turkish troops in Qatar would focus on
advanced training, but could also be called upon to bolster security in
an emergency.

 

http://www.menewsline.com/article-1173,36069-Turkey-Plans-To-Deploy-In-Qatar.aspx

[BansheeOne]

Strangely I only saw this reported now, too, though I found original coverage was from mid-December.

 

World | Wed Dec 16, 2015 8:43am EST

 

Turkey to set up Qatar military base to face 'common enemies'

DOHA | By Tom Finn

 

Turkey will establish a military base in Qatar as part of a defence agreement aimed at helping them confront "common enemies," Turkey's ambassador to Qatar said on Wednesday.

 

Establishment of the base, part of an agreement signed in 2014 and ratified by Turkey's parliament in June, intensifies the partnership with Qatar at a time of rising instability and a perceived waning of U.S. interest in the region.

 

The two countries, both economic heavyweights, have provided support for the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, backed rebels fighting to overthrow Syrian President Bashar al-Assad and raised the alarm about creeping Iranian influence in the region.

 

Both have condemned Russia's intervention on the side of Assad's forces fighting in Syria.

 

The envoy, Ahmet Demirok, told Reuters that 3,000 ground troops would be stationed at the base - Turkey's first overseas military installation in the Middle East - as well as air and naval units, military trainers and special operations forces.

 

The "multi-purpose" base will primarily serve as a venue for joint training exercises. The agreement also grants Qatar the option of setting up its own base in Turkey, he said in an interview.

 

"Turkey and Qatar face common problems and we are both very concerned about developments in the region and uncertain policies of other countries ... We confront common enemies. At this critical time for the Middle East cooperation between us is vital," Demirok said.

 

One of the wealthiest countries in the world, Qatar is home to the largest U.S. air base in the Middle East, Al Udeid, where around 10,000 military personnel are stationed, though U.S. interest in the region is perceived to be lessening.

 

Demirok said 100 Turkish troops were currently in Qatar training the Gulf state's military. He did not say when the new Turkish base would be completed.

 

"Today we are not building a new alliance but rather rediscovering historic and brotherly ties," he said, referring to the Muslim Ottoman Empire which, before its collapse in 1920, stretched from eastern Europe to the Arab Gulf.

 

"With the perceived disengagement by the United States from the Gulf, what we are witnessing now is a diversification of potential allies," said Jean-Marc Rickli, a professor at King’s College London teaching at Qatar National Defence College.

 

"If you are a small state like Qatar you have an interest in hosting several allies on your territory because it provides you with an indirect security guarantee from your ally. Moreover, it increases the costs for the aggressor of any potential attack."

 

Qatari officials were not immediately available for comment.

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-qatar-turkey-military-idUSKBN0TZ17V20151216

[lucklucky]

Damn! don't this guys ISIS, Al Qaeda, Iranians .. know that Republicans are my main enemies!? crap always happening to divert from my main mission.

 

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_IRAN_US_NAVY_BOATS?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2016-01-12-16-04-56

Edited January 13, 2016 by lucklucky

[Simon Tan]

Ooops....Pasdaran Admiral waiting for apology before the CB90s are sent on their way. I hope the crew like kebab and rice.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3bJ5bUL6ew

Edited January 13, 2016 by Simon Tan

[Simon Tan]

No Kebab for you! The CB90s have been sent on their way apparently.

[Simon Tan]

Farsi island is 0.25 sq km.....

[swerve]

No Kebab for you! The CB90s have been sent on their way apparently.

With their crews.

 

 

 

[T]he naval commander of Iran's Revolutionary Guards, General Ali Fadavi, said he was satisfied a mechanical failure was behind the incursion.

"We have concluded that passage of Americans in our territorial waters was not a hostile passage or for espionage or similar acts," he told Iranian television.

[Colin]

you could only get steel if you were going to export 70% of your product, hence a canvas covered Rover and the introduction of the aluminum landrover.