PaulFormerlyinSaudi Posted March 19 Posted March 19 4 hours ago, Ssnake said: So? What's your practical solution? We probably ought to stop doing things we have proven will not work. Other than that, I don't have a solution. What are your thoughts?
bojan Posted March 19 Posted March 19 So why don't you do something about it? People with strong convictions usually do. I might not like a lot of things Israel does, but alternative is way, way, way worse, and there is no way for real peace there. At best you might create few years of the ceasefire after which it will flare up again. Like it did on 7th October. I said it before, I might not like Israeli methods, but I don't see any other methods working vs jihadi terrorists. Yes, there is US and European hypocrisy there, because they have supported various violent separatists and terrorists and even jihadists before in numerous cases, but that is whole different topic than is fundamentally unrelated to what Israel does.
PaulFormerlyinSaudi Posted March 19 Posted March 19 1 hour ago, bojan said: I might not like a lot of things Israel does, but alternative is way, way, way worse, and there is no way for real peace there. At best you might create few years of the ceasefire after which it will flare up again. Like it did on 7th October. The preferred alternative to fighting endless wars is victory. Israel ought to do something that works. At least it ought to stop doing things that we know will not work.
bojan Posted March 19 Posted March 19 2 minutes ago, PaulFormerlyinSaudi said: ...Israel ought to do something that works.... What exactly? Quote At least it ought to stop doing things that we know will not work. Stop fighting you mean? That is worth nothing because as 7/10 showed Palestinians won't stop fighting.
PaulFormerlyinSaudi Posted March 19 Posted March 19 9 minutes ago, bojan said: What exactly? Beats me. Something new I suppose. What do you propose?
sunday Posted March 19 Posted March 19 In one of his novels Tom Clancy suggested to put the Holy Land under Holy See administration.
bojan Posted March 19 Posted March 19 37 minutes ago, PaulFormerlyinSaudi said: ...What do you propose? I am not the one demanding that "someone should do something".
Ssnake Posted March 19 Posted March 19 3 hours ago, PaulFormerlyinSaudi said: What are your thoughts? I'm somewhat indifferent, to be perfectly honest; I don't want wars down there, but I refuse to get worked up about Gaza, knowing what the people in charge there did during my lifetime, and before (and that, largely, with the support of the local population). Therefore, I recognize that if I were in Israel's place with a lot of hostile neighbors, I wouldn't be too trusting either. In any case - the onus to suggest better solutions is on those who do all the hand wringing and pearl clutching. I'm not familiar enough with the details to let me believe that I know better; guess that means I see myself at the minimum of the Dunning Kruger curve, and I have yet to recognize someone high up on the right arm of the curve. I do have, however, a few fundamental principles that I consider non-negotiable - hostage taking and massacres are bad. Annexations and land grabs are bad, too (there, I said it). As long as the Palestinians can't even agree to as simple a statement as that Israel has a right to exist, there simply is no basis for a negotiated settlement. We've had constant wars for about a century in that region because we don't let either side win. Our politicians seem to consider escalation as such as the enemy. But that attitude also prevents a resolution of the conflict as the leaders of each party have no leverage over each other. We can wish that everybody in the area sees the error of their ways. But what if they don't? Can we honestly say that a century of interrupted war has yielded better results than a decisive victory of Israel might have? A two-state solution can only work if both sides want it, and only after there's a peace agreement. Establishing two states prior to peace is putting the cart before the horse.
urbanoid Posted March 19 Posted March 19 23 minutes ago, Ssnake said: I'm somewhat indifferent, to be perfectly honest; + a lot
PaulFormerlyinSaudi Posted March 19 Posted March 19 4 hours ago, bojan said: I am not the one demanding that "someone should do something". Who is making this demand?
PaulFormerlyinSaudi Posted March 19 Posted March 19 3 hours ago, Ssnake said: I'm somewhat indifferent, to be perfectly honest I read some random person's online comment the other day. He said the Israel/Palestine situation is the one issue that most divides us. It is the best thing to raise if you want people to go for each other's throats. As an American, I am sort of spring-loaded toward solving problems, not endlessly kicking them down the road. Nonetheless, there may be some wisdom in his words. A pox on both their houses, now let us go kick the Russians back to their start line.
crazyinsane105 Posted March 19 Posted March 19 Even if the state of Israel were to vanish tomorrow, and the Jewish inhabitants have fled elsewhere for safety, there won’t be ‘peace’ in that part of the world. Neighboring Arab countries would immediately want their share of the Holy Land, and we’d see continuing bloodshed. There have been periods in history where there was some peace in the Holy Land, but it was never stable or long lasting. Doesn’t give justification to what’s happening now, but as others have pointed out, there is no good solution to this.
Stuart Galbraith Posted March 20 Posted March 20 17 hours ago, urbanoid said: Only Jerusalem IIRC. Yes, it was. And by the following novel (to keep in line with actual reality) it all collapses into anarchy and fails, which was surely accurate enough. My view? Keep on with the negotiations, because all the military action has killed more hostages than its rescued. I dont like the idea of Hamas surviving, but if thats the price of getting the hostages out, so be it. When they are recovered, then Israel can go to town on them for all I care. Business first, then pleasure. Why isnt Netanyahu doing that? Because the very day the fighting restarted, he was due to go to court to give testitimony about his corruption case, or so Im told on CNN. Is that completely unrelated? I do hope so, but knowing the individual concerned, I frankly doubt it.
PaulFormerlyinSaudi Posted March 20 Posted March 20 (edited) The Israelis seem to still be heading down the road to emptying Gaza of the people who live there. -=Link=- Israel’s current plan is to make Gaza unlivable, re-establish those so-called “humanitarian zones,” concentrate Palestinians in those bubbles or islands and from there offer voluntary transfer out of Gaza, retired Brig. Gen. Amir Avivi, a security hawk who continues to advise the military and defense ministry, told ABC News. They are dropping leaflets; leave “before the implementation of Trump’s forced plan—which will impose your forced displacement whether you like it or not.” “No one will feel for you, and no one will ask about you. You are left alone to face your inevitable fate. Neither the US nor Europe cares about Gaza. The game is almost over, and only a little remains. Whoever wants to save themselves before it’s too late, we are here to stay until Judgment Day.” Edited March 20 by PaulFormerlyinSaudi double-posting
Tim the Tank Nut Posted March 20 Posted March 20 there you go. A solution has presented itself. I hope you feel better now.
PaulFormerlyinSaudi Posted March 20 Posted March 20 The Israelis seem to propose doing more of what they have been doing for decades.
Ssnake Posted March 21 Posted March 21 Make a better suggestion. Ah, yes, I forgot: We had that yesterday already, and you have none.
PaulFormerlyinSaudi Posted March 21 Posted March 21 8 hours ago, Ssnake said: Make a better suggestion. Ah, yes, I forgot: We had that yesterday already, and you have none. Didn't claim I had one. At least I can identify what has not worked in the past.
glenn239 Posted March 21 Posted March 21 4 hours ago, PaulFormerlyinSaudi said: Didn't claim I had one. At least I can identify what has not worked in the past. Trump's solution can work provided that the Gaza population is returned to Gaza and not forced into exile.
Ssnake Posted March 21 Posted March 21 4 hours ago, PaulFormerlyinSaudi said: At least I can identify what has not worked in the past. Like any other wisecracking fence sitter.
old_goat Posted March 21 Posted March 21 41 minutes ago, glenn239 said: Trump's solution can work provided that the Gaza population is returned to Gaza and not forced into exile. Everybody knows that palestinians would never return there. Trump is openly zionist, he supports the israeli far right's plans in every way.
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