Because, Canada

[glenn239]

5 hours ago, rmgill said:

How many refineries does Canada have? You’re more in danger of Trudeau and your provincial governors cutting off your fuel than the US is. 

There's no question on who loses a trade war, by the numbers.  But Trump's domestic support is dependent on delivering on economic promises while that's not the case up here.  Up here it's about staying independent.  You want to play nice, we'll play nice.  You don't want to play nice then that'll be too bad for us, but either way, Trump won't get what he wants, if what he wants goes beyond defense planning, reasonable economic discussions, and drug cooperation.  

 

[glenn239]

6 hours ago, Sinistar said:

what happens if the united states invades the artic circle and fights a potential war against canada over access to the resources

I doubt war in the artic is logistically that feasible, and certainly not in the slightest profitable.  No one is talking anything even remotely like actual conflict.  At most, Trump might lose NORAD until he's out of office.  That's about it.

Quote

what happens if the united states cuts off canadian ISPs from access to internet service farms.

That would be a kick in the teeth but we'd just be forced restore with the help of other countries.  The Chinese, for example.

Quote

what happens if the united states seizes or freezes canadian access to the world banking system - trudeau demonstrated this trick on canadian truckers locally; globally the united states is capable of much further reaching 

Yet another kick in the teeth for Canada if that were to happen, I bet.  Unlike with Russia, no other country would go along with it though.   We'd have to exit trade on the US dollar and negotiate directly with BRICS and the EU to do what we can.   These questions are far beyond my pay grade.

 

[Sinistar]

your original question seems to be provocative - there is in there the implication that canada could turn off the tap and see what happens

 

the odds of things developing into that are quite low

 

hypothetically speaking

suppose that were a plan that canada intended to action in order to maul the united states economy

and let us suppose it actually did that or at least before the united states could tap into domestic reserves and begin leveraging other states 

 

of course all of that would reverberate and wreck every state dependent on the western financial system 

except to a lesser state countries which have less exposure to it to begin with- states like north korea or russia for example

 

but it would be quite a show

[Stuart Galbraith]

On 2/6/2025 at 7:07 PM, TrustMe said:

I think that was given by the CIA to support the BBC world service.

No, dont complicate it for him, he will go all scanners on you.

 

[glenn239]

18 hours ago, Sinistar said:

your original question seems to be provocative - there is in there the implication that canada could turn off the tap and see what happens

Canada will wait for Trump to act then react to what he does.  Nothing will be done proactively up here. Rmgill has expressed some interest in the fact that Line 9 runs through Michigan.  I'm sure Trump is also aware of that fact, and there has been discussions in Michigan at the state level in recent years about shutting Line 9 down.  Losing Line 9 would be a serious economic blow to Canada and an act of tremendous economic aggression by the United States.  Further it makes no sense in relation to stopping the activities of drug cartels. 

The perception up here is that Trump is lying about his intentions.  It's not about the cartels, he's shopping to try and be one of the best presidents in American history.  His agenda is therefore opportunistic.

 

Quote

and let us suppose it actually did that or at least before the united states could tap into domestic reserves and begin leveraging other states 

Canada has to get along with the USA forever.   The point is not to turn Canada into another Ukraine, it would be to undermine Trump's domestic support and turn both Houses Democrat in 2 years.

 

Edited February 8 by glenn239

[Tim the Tank Nut]

It's odd to me how upset Canada is by Trump's words and actions.  Canada isn't being singled out.  Trump is saying the same things about the USA government as he is saying about Canada's.

It's time for a house cleaning in a LOT of Western governments which have really gone against their own citizenry.  Better Trump to stop the decline now than waiting for the people to do it the hard way.  Trump well remembers what Trudeau did to his own citizens (the truckers). Canada's government is being treated better than they deserve based on their recent history.

[rmgill]

26 minutes ago, glenn239 said:

Canada will wait for Trump to act then react to what he does.  Nothing will be done proactively up here. Rmgill has expressed some interest in the fact that Line 9 runs through Michigan. 

AND the Alaska Highway runs through Canada. 

I trust Trump more than I suspect you trust Trudeau. 

I don't trust Trudeau at all. 

Gauge everything from there. 

26 minutes ago, glenn239 said:

I'm sure Trump is also aware of that fact, and there has been discussions in Michigan at the state level in recent years about shutting Line 9 down.  Losing Line 9 would be a serious economic blow to Canada and an act of tremendous economic aggression by the United States.  Further it makes no sense in relation to stopping the activities of drug cartels. 

No, but it all DOES make sense in relation to stopping Trudeau's bull crap foreign policy and shitty law enforcement policies that affect US domestic issues. 
 

26 minutes ago, glenn239 said:

The perception up here is that Trump is lying about his intentions.

The perception is that Trudeau is a lying sack of shit and has been for a decade. Yet you lot keep him around. He's been PM since 2015. 

 

26 minutes ago, glenn239 said:

  It's not about the cartels, he's shopping to try and be one of the best presidents in American history.  His agenda is therefore opportunistic.

Sure. It's about the Gay, transgender, lesbians, two spirits. 

[R011]

27 minutes ago, Tim the Tank Nut said:

It's odd to me how upset Canada is by Trump's words and actions.  Canada isn't being singled out.  Trump is saying the same things about the USA government as he is saying about Canada's.

It's time for a house cleaning in a LOT of Western governments which have really gone against their own citizenry.  Better Trump to stop the decline now than waiting for the people to do it the hard way.  Trump well remembers what Trudeau did to his own citizens (the truckers). Canada's government is being treated better than they deserve based on their recent history.

Trump wants to fuck our economy for a flimsy pretext and you wonder why Canadians are concerned?

And Trump isn't president of Canada.  He's got no more right to clean house here than Trudeau does to interfere in US government.

[Sinistar]

canada does not have  a president

canada has a prime minister

in that sense trump fills the void and is the president of canada

trump is also the president of the united kingdom

and president of nato

perhaps even the eu

 

and realistically that is one of the main reasons the west outside of the united states is in a quandry

you do not elect the united states president but he is still your president

 

what other leader in any western country fulfills the functions of the office of the president

especially in the world affairs

it is trump who has more leverage in the direction of nato or entanglements in the middle east or in east asia

 

you do not see any commonwealth country putting up one their prime ministers to achieve anything in the world

really having much impact on any of that

 

that is the reason the politics are so generally aligned against trump and were firmly in the tank

for biden and then kamala harris in western europe and the english speaking world

because deep down they know they follow what washington does

 

 

Edited February 8 by Sinistar

[Tim the Tank Nut]

Trump does want to tank Canada's economy.  He's using that threat to try to get Canada to get its act together.  Canada is behaving like a child screaming a tantrum because the parent is making the child do the homework.

Using closing the border as an example:

Trump says get it done or else.  At the same time he is sending that same message to the US Border Patrol as well.  It's not like he's telling Canada to police both sides of the border.  Many nations got used to the way things were.  Even here in the US it's like that but the "way things were" wasn't working.  As a practical matter President Trump has risked his life to try to turn it around.  Somehow putting up with Trudeau doesn't seem as serious as being shot at.  It's no wonder that Trump is moving fast and hard, his opponents have tried to kill him.

The video of Trump signing the Executive Order protecting girls' sports, did you see it?  There are people that want Trump killed for that.... It's deranged.

[Sinistar]

where i am

i have to live incognito

i cannot talk openly about what i really think

or even just debate even if i am wrong to test ideas and show me where i might have it wrong

it does not even get that far

that sort of exchange does not exist

 

instead what is going on are local politicians openly lying that trump is federalizing and commandeering local prosecutor's offices and police departments and deporting everyone illegally and immorally

and the media only carries that tune and is incapable of showing any other angle on this behavior

 

at the same time the mexican flags are coming out and mixed in all of that are all the la raza messages- which at its core originated as a blatant sort of 'brown power' anti-white movement where they were openly saying that they were going to wipe out white culture and reclaim the united states for mexico

 

and so really to a large extent alot of that is openly on display except the image and the message is better crafted to make it appear that all them are helpless victims rather than race baiting

the media and the local politicians and the local cultural scene is completely tailoring the message

if you were enlightened and compassionate you get with all that

but to be that you have to be completely snowed as to what this is actually trying to achieve

 

and so where i am is where a lot of this was invented tested and exported to the rest of the united states and being exported to the world

 

and what i am saying is that if canada wants this sort of thing or europe thinks this is all enlightening and humanist

my observation and my advice to that is they do not know what they are getting at all

until they really get it

 

 

[R011]

1 hour ago, Tim the Tank Nut said:

Trump does want to tank Canada's economy.  He's using that threat to try to get Canada to get its act together.  Canada is behaving like a child screaming a tantrum because the parent is making the child do the homework.

Using closing the border as an example:

Trump says get it done or else.  At the same time he is sending that same message to the US Border Patrol as well.  It's not like he's telling Canada to police both sides of the border.  Many nations got used to the way things were.  Even here in the US it's like that but the "way things were" wasn't working.  As a practical matter President Trump has risked his life to try to turn it around.  Somehow putting up with Trudeau doesn't seem as serious as being shot at.  It's no wonder that Trump is moving fast and hard, his opponents have tried to kill him.

The video of Trump signing the Executive Order protecting girls' sports, did you see it?  There are people that want Trump killed for that.... It's deranged.

Our act is together, at least compared to yours let alone Mexico.  Stop the flood of drugs, guns, and illegal immigrants from the US and you can talk about the trickle coming the other way.

[LT Ducky]

23 minutes ago, R011 said:Stop the flood of drugs, guns, and illegal immigrants from the US and you can talk about the trickle coming the other way.

That sounds like it is as much of a Canadian problem as a US problem 

[R011]

4 hours ago, LT Ducky said:

That sounds like it is as much of a Canadian problem as a US problem 

And we're working on it from our end

[Stuart Galbraith]

You know what I find so very sad? I can imagine Geoff Winnington Ball, many of whom you counted as a friend, looking over this thread. Can you imagine what he would feel like, with so many of you liberally soaking up Trumps drivel and so enthusiastically repeating it without critically thinking through it?

Theses guys are your friends. California catches on fire, they help put it out. You have a war, they fight it with you. Now you are all rejoicing at hammering the Canadian economy, for reasons I simply cannot grasp, and doubt any of you could either. He is even talking about annexing it, according to confidants he simply cannot understand why Canada wouldnt want to join.

Im very glad Geoff is dead to be quite honest.

[glenn239]

22 hours ago, Tim the Tank Nut said:

Trump does want to tank Canada's economy.  He's using that threat to try to get Canada to get its act together.

We're not sure what Trump wants.   If it's just border security, then there is no problem.  Maybe he's talking about the border because that's the issue, maybe he's talking about it because its the pretext for sanctions.  

Really, it's partly on us for not being better prepared.  We've had an unserious government up here for 10 years, which has allowed pipelines not to be built and has eroded national unity.

[rmgill]

And eroded freedom, law, accountability, tradition, security and the economy. 

[rmgill]

10 hours ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

You know what I find so very sad? I can imagine Geoff Winnington Ball, many of whom you counted as a friend, looking over this thread. Can you imagine what he would feel like, with so many of you liberally soaking up Trumps drivel and so enthusiastically repeating it without critically thinking through it?

Geoff would have looked at the fools in Canada going after guns, eroding the military and law and been pissed I think. Someone like him with MLU as a creation of love would have preferred a capable military not a shadow of a shadow.

 

10 hours ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

Theses guys are your friends. California catches on fire, they help put it out. You have a war, they fight it with you. Now you are all rejoicing at hammering the Canadian economy, for reasons I simply cannot grasp,

There’s your problem. The problems are beyond your ken. They are present in your nation too. But you accept them, laud them or even defend them. 
 

The US is your friend. Yet you were supportive of the US president that removed Churchills bust, among other things. What message is that? 
 

Our allies are corrupted by the same forces that are all through our corrupted government. Trump is putting all those corrupt folks on notice. Trudeau is just the nearest. 

Edited February 9 by rmgill

[Colin]

On 2/7/2025 at 10:08 AM, rmgill said:

You’re asserting something not true. Its a falsehood that the anti productivity/luddite folks who oppose pipelines also assert. 

Thats your source? 
 

What is the throughput of line 9 per day? 

Ahh. So Schrodinger's interdependency. Canada is both dependent upon the US and not. 
 

How many refineries does Canada have? You’re more in danger of Trudeau and your provincial governors cutting off your fuel than the US is. 

Can't speak for the rest of Canada, but BC has 2, a 156,000 BPD and 26,000 BPD. They can't process all the feedstock that KinderMorgan can send. So 40% of that feedstock is diverted to Cherrypoint in Washington State for refining and sent back to Canada. The big problem is the companies are not interested in increasing the refining capability as shortages keeps the price of refined fuels up. A refinery fire in Oakland caused the price of gas in Vancouver Canada to go up by 10cents a litre overnight.

[Colin]

On 2/8/2025 at 10:30 AM, Tim the Tank Nut said:

It's odd to me how upset Canada is by Trump's words and actions.  Canada isn't being singled out.  Trump is saying the same things about the USA government as he is saying about Canada's.

It's time for a house cleaning in a LOT of Western governments which have really gone against their own citizenry.  Better Trump to stop the decline now than waiting for the people to do it the hard way.  Trump well remembers what Trudeau did to his own citizens (the truckers). Canada's government is being treated better than they deserve based on their recent history.

Canada has a long and turbulent history with the US. So it's no surprise there is a lot of "Eff you US". I agree the Canadian Government has been a laggard in the realm of defense and border control. The comments about making us a 51st State were counterproductive and actually builds support for Trudeau and his band of idiots. It's being a blessing for him. 

[rmgill]

10 minutes ago, Colin said:

Canada has a long and turbulent history with the US. So it's no surprise there is a lot of "Eff you US". I agree the Canadian Government has been a laggard in the realm of defense and border control. The comments about making us a 51st State were counterproductive and actually builds support for Trudeau and his band of idiots. It's being a blessing for him. 

I think it's meant to appeal to the center of the country Canadians who align with the center of the US Americans and whom both dislike what goes on in Ottawa and in DC as a rule. 

It's not meant as serious other than to tweak the tails of the usual suspects who lauded lockdowns, seizing trucker protest member accounts and called folks racist, homophobic nazis. 

It's not like there isn't a bit of concern by the meat eating Canadian's who wouldn't have a problem with most of Ottawa, Toronto, parts of Vancouver and Montreal all floating off on an ice flow. 

Edited February 9 by rmgill

[Colin]

If the Liberals get in or are able to has a sizable opposition, then it will be counterproductive to Trump goals. Trump needs the CPC to get in with a sizable majority for him to achieve the goals of defense spending and border security. However Trump also wants smash open Canada's economy and make it even more dependent on the US. We have 1/10th of your population, without market protections our small businesses are screwed and would be wiped out.

Edited February 9 by Colin

[Stuart Galbraith]

14 hours ago, rmgill said:

I think it's meant to appeal to the center of the country Canadians who align with the center of the US Americans and whom both dislike what goes on in Ottawa and in DC as a rule. 

It's not meant as serious other than to tweak the tails of the usual suspects who lauded lockdowns, seizing trucker protest member accounts and called folks racist, homophobic nazis. 

It's not like there isn't a bit of concern by the meat eating Canadian's who wouldn't have a problem with most of Ottawa, Toronto, parts of Vancouver and Montreal all floating off on an ice flow. 

There you go again, apologising that he is joking, for a guy you also claim can be trusted to do whats necessary.

Lets actually quote what the National Security Advisor, and Trump, have said about the prospect.

https://www.newsweek.com/security-adviser-mike-waltz-confronted-trumps-plan-annex-canada-2028464

'Waltz said while he doesn't think the president has "any plans to invade Canada," he believes many Canadians "do not like the last 10 years of liberal, progressive governance in Trudeau."

"I think the Canadian people, many of them, would love to join the United States...What you're seeing is a reassertion of American leadership in the Western Hemisphere, from the Arctic all the way down to the Panama Canal," he added. "And that's what we're talking about, from Greenland, to Arctic security to the Panama Canal coming back under the United States. America has avoided our own hemisphere—where we have the energy, the food and the critical minerals—for way too long, and you're seeing a reassertion of President Trump's leadership."

And,

In a Sunday interview with Fox News' chief political anchor Bret Baier, Trump responded to Trudeau's remarks stating that making Canada the 51st state is a real thing.

"Yeah, it is. I think Canada would be much better off being the 51st state, because we lose $200 billion a year with Canada, and I'm not going to let that happen too much. Why are we paying $200 billion a year, essentially in subsidy to Canada? Now, if they're a 51st state, I don't mind doing it."

And even,

That its childish, banal, stupid, ill conceived and wont work, doesnt mean its not the plan. This is the same guy whom thinks Gaza is going to be the Atlantic city of the mediterranean.

 

[Mike1158]

Just how many nations does this plank plan to turn into 'states'?

 

Attention gathering and putting folk off balance, end of.

[Stuart Galbraith]

He spent a lifetime getting precisely what he wants, and what he said he wanted was what he wanted. And they sit him behind the Resolute desk, and think suddenly he is joking. Why? is that just incredulity, or fear that he might actually be serious?

He said it himself, he got saved by God. Why would he allow lesser opinions to stand, now he is on a roll?

 

 

Edited February 10 by Stuart Galbraith