Stuart Galbraith Posted February 4 Posted February 4 Sure he can retaliate, he has the right to defend his country any way he likes. THAT much is expected of him. But the idea that he can embark on protracted negotiations he will never see the end of, and then hand the result over to his replacement (not to mention potentially a new cabinet) who might have their own ideas, such as not negotiating with Trump at all, is really very silly. So evidently silly I wonder at the White House, nor anyone else, noticing how utterly dumb this is. But then, this is not mensa level management, and clearly my expectations shouldnt be set so high.
glenn239 Posted February 4 Posted February 4 33 minutes ago, rmgill said: Justin Castro hasn't been able to negotiate properly ever, because he can only bully citizens and seize their assets after calling them racists and other kinds of big meanies. He can talk a good game, but that's all he's got. Oh and playing dress up...but that doesn't go far with Trump. Sounds like you're talking yourself into the idea that Canada can be pushed around because Trudeau is a dainty. But Trudeau will be gone in a couple months. Canada will still be here.
glenn239 Posted February 4 Posted February 4 2 hours ago, rmgill said: Canada's oil pipelines are incomplete across Canada. Their shipments east to west MUST go through the US. Line 9 is critical for oil supply between Western and Eastern Canada, like electicity and gasoline from Canada is critical for US markets. In a pinch it could be replaced by rail transport to BC, then across the country by tanker, but it would be painful for a few months.
rmgill Posted February 4 Posted February 4 17 minutes ago, glenn239 said: Sounds like you're talking yourself into the idea that Canada can be pushed around because Trudeau is a dainty. But Trudeau will be gone in a couple months. Canada will still be here. Not at all. I am just noting that there is a new Sheriff in town and the decidedly liberal policy goals and priorities of Trudeau and other leftists isn’t going to fly anymore. Note we are cleaning out our own house too. So its not just about Canadian leftist policies and priorities. They are just one of many aspects.
rmgill Posted February 4 Posted February 4 46 minutes ago, Stuart Galbraith said: Sure he can retaliate, he has the right to defend his country any way he likes. THAT much is expected of him. You asserted he wasn’t in power any more. Provably false and your own assertion underscores that. 46 minutes ago, Stuart Galbraith said: But the idea that he can embark on protracted negotiations he will never see the end of, and then hand the result over to his replacement (not to mention potentially a new cabinet) who might have their own ideas, And if he acts in bad faith, the tariffs will be back on. 46 minutes ago, Stuart Galbraith said: So evidently silly I wonder at the White House, nor anyone else, noticing how utterly dumb this is. What is utterly dumb is the folks who assert the current PM who has the right to defend his country, but isn’t in a position to negotiate, can still negotiate for months dragging out the agreement. If your argument was any more obtuse it would be a straight as a line laser beam.
R011 Posted February 4 Posted February 4 13 hours ago, Stuart Galbraith said: The main hing Canada exports to the US is oil. That is precisely what upsets the trade balance. Minus the oil, Canada and the US export pretty much the same to each other. America could rectify that problem overnight by refusing canadian oil, and extracting their own, of which they have plenty. So what is Trumps aim? Is he trying to get the oil shut off, the oil flow he once complained about Biden stopping the pipeline across Native American territory, not to mention at a time when Trump is trying to get oil to an all time low? Or is he trying to ruin the Canadian economy to force it to accept Pax Americana? Because if the latter, he is going to struggle to get it done in 4 years. Not without killing his own economy first, just as Putin has found. The truth is that these are bad arguments in favour of a bad policy. But as usual the cheap seats will cheer them, simply because they cant recognise that cheap goods are good for consumers that are suffering a price crunch. And you Americans have a price crunch, its why you drove Biden from office with a flea in his ear. So why are American consumers going to embrace prices going up, for nebulous reasons that Trump probably read on an Alt Right Conspiracy forum? And most likely, they arent. Already the stock market is tumbling. Its going to get even worse when he takes on the EU. Good luck with that. That Canadian oil is refined in the US, creating American jobs, and then re-exported at a profit. A nominal trade deficit with Canada ends up as a USA trade surplus with oil buying countries.
rmgill Posted February 4 Posted February 4 (edited) Overall a trade deficit alone is not an issue. When there's lot of other issues along side, then it becomes more irksome. Get things down to just that and we'll be find with America's Hat. Edited February 4 by rmgill
glenn239 Posted February 4 Posted February 4 1 hour ago, rmgill said: Overall a trade deficit alone is not an issue. When there's lot of other issues along side, then it becomes more irksome. We have a trade treaty that was signed under the Trump administration. If there are trade issues to be addressed then these are up for review in 2026 according to it. No problem starting discussions now. Public mood here is that if this is about cartels and drug trafficking we're more than happy to help you as best we can. But if the border is a stalking horse for a more nefarious agenda such as stripping jobs from Canada, well then, that would be a different matter. Quote Get things down to just that and we'll be find with America's Hat. You posted an image of Line 9 and noted that Canadian oil travels through the US to reach eastern Canada. To what purpose did you make that observation? I assume you mean that the United States could in theory cut the oil supply of an ally?
Sinistar Posted February 5 Posted February 5 no accounting source reports a nominal trade deficit or trade surplus with canada over the last few years the deficit with canada is somewhere in $60+ billion dollar range with canada alone the perception is that $60 + billion is hardly any matter given the apparent wealth of the united states and its ability to spend its way out of any domestic or foreign policy situation it looks like there is enough to go around for everyone what's the problem the average wage earner does not experience the wealth in this way rather they perceive their purchasing power always going down as it should be with inflationary spending and the feds printing money out of thin air that is whole another issue with the national debt reaching inconceivable levels no one actually knows where that is going or what it is going to do is there a point where the whole thing actually collapses under the weight of the illusion maybe or maybe not but it does not seem intuitive that it can just keep exploding without consequences now to the extent what trump is actually after with using this kind of stick and carrot approach to get other leaders to negotiate- not sure it really is just about cartels or illegal immigrants in the case of canada but also the general issues with a potential north american rival with trudeau in power across not only economic but political and cultural differences since trudeau is more likely than not to represent the polar view of everything trump wants to action it is like having another gavin newsom across the way in the western hemisphere with an opposing message
R011 Posted February 5 Posted February 5 7 hours ago, Murph said: Perhaps we should mirror Canada's tariffs on US products? You do already.
rmgill Posted February 5 Posted February 5 8 hours ago, glenn239 said: You posted an image of Line 9 and noted that Canadian oil travels through the US to reach eastern Canada. To what purpose did you make that observation? I assume you mean that the United States could in theory cut the oil supply of an ally? It points to the fundamental interrelation of our oil system. And Trudeau fixed that dependence by cancelling that internal Canadian pipeline.
Stuart Galbraith Posted February 5 Posted February 5 10 hours ago, R011 said: That Canadian oil is refined in the US, creating American jobs, and then re-exported at a profit. A nominal trade deficit with Canada ends up as a USA trade surplus with oil buying countries. Yes, I can entirely understand that. But of course the figures he is looking at are not framed that way. I watch a Canadian guy on youtube restoring a Peterbilt 359 (Twin Sticks Garage, he is very good), and the amount of stuff he buys from over the border is absolutely phenominal, tools, spare parts. The idea there is a huge trade deficit to Americas disadvantage is inconceivable to me. Your markets are clearly intertwined, not dissimilar it seems to me the way Britains was with the EU. And we all remember how well Brexit worked dont we?
glenn239 Posted February 5 Posted February 5 5 hours ago, rmgill said: It points to the fundamental interrelation of our oil system. And Trudeau fixed that dependence by cancelling that internal Canadian pipeline. You were making a point about the interrelation of the oil distribution system to the purpose of making a threat, correct? That the USA could cut the oil supply along that line in order to attempt to harm Canada, correct?
rmgill Posted February 5 Posted February 5 (edited) 1 hour ago, glenn239 said: You were making a point about the interrelation of the oil distribution system to the purpose of making a threat, correct? That the USA could cut the oil supply along that line in order to attempt to harm Canada, correct? It points to the fundamental interrelation of our oil system. Is that clear enough? Edited February 5 by rmgill
Stuart Galbraith Posted February 5 Posted February 5 Exactly. And you are complaining about the trade with Canada, which you interpet as a trade imbalance, which is actually trade by companies likely owned at least in part, if not wholly by Americans, transiting to American companies where you sell it to export.
glenn239 Posted February 5 Posted February 5 (edited) 2 hours ago, rmgill said: It points to the fundamental interrelation of our oil system. Is that clear enough? Right, you were just getting suddenly interested in random logistic details of oil distribution, pointing out how Canada's oil goes through Michigan, not making a threat about what you'll do to "America's Hat" if it doesn't do what it's told. Edited February 5 by glenn239
glenn239 Posted February 5 Posted February 5 21 minutes ago, Ssnake said: It's about the Fentanyl, not the trade. Canadian media has suddenly in the past day declared that Mexican cartels are operating widely in Canada and are a serious threat, and are having guests on air talking about the dangers of Fentanyl and how alarming it all is. Quite the narrative shift from the last 10 years where the thrust was legalized drug use and little to no mention of the cartels using Canada.
rmgill Posted February 5 Posted February 5 10 minutes ago, glenn239 said: Right, you were just getting suddenly interested in random logistic details of oil distribution, pointing out how Canada's oil goes through Michigan, not making a threat about what you'll do to "America's Hat" if it doesn't do what it's told. Stop channeling Justin telling me how and what I think.
rmgill Posted February 5 Posted February 5 2 hours ago, Stuart Galbraith said: Exactly. And you are complaining about the trade with Canada, which you interpet as a trade imbalance, which is actually trade by companies likely owned at least in part, if not wholly by Americans, transiting to American companies where you sell it to export. Reiterating for the hard of reading…. Overall a trade deficit alone is not an issue. When there's lot of other issues along side, then it becomes more irksome.
rmgill Posted February 5 Posted February 5 10 minutes ago, glenn239 said: Canadian media has suddenly in the past day declared that Mexican cartels are operating widely in Canada and are a serious threat, and are having guests on air talking about the dangers of Fentanyl and how alarming it all is. Quite the narrative shift from the last 10 years where the thrust was legalized drug use and little to no mention of the cartels using Canada. If true, that would be a bloody good reason for taking issue with canadian government inaction. Why address criminal cartels? After all, the RCMP has guns to confiscate from people who don’t present a threat and are easy to bully around.
R011 Posted February 5 Posted February 5 1 hour ago, Ssnake said: It's about the Fentanyl, not the trade. You mean the whole 43 pounds seized last year compared to over twenty thousand pounds seized coming from Mexico!?
Stuart Galbraith Posted February 5 Posted February 5 (edited) 1 hour ago, rmgill said: Reiterating for the hard of reading…. Overall a trade deficit alone is not an issue. When there's lot of other issues along side, then it becomes more irksome. Funny then that in every speech he mentions the trade balance instead. https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2025/02/02/trump-canada-mexico-tariffs-china/78169171007/ 'I'm speaking with Prime Minister Trudeau tomorrow morning and I'm also speaking with Mexico tomorrow morning," Trump said Sunday, as he landed at Joint Base Andrews in Maryland, after flying back from his Florida home. "They owe us a lot of money, and I'm sure they're going to pay.' On Sunday, Trump also said he wanted the countries to "balance out their trade, number one." According to the Office of the U.S. Trade Representative, the U.S. goods trade deficit with Canada was $80.1 billion in 2022, a 68% increase over 2021. Meanwhile, the trade deficit with Mexico stood at $131.1 billion in 2022, a 24% increase over 2021. A lower tariff of 10% was set for Canadian energy, including natural gas and oil. Trump also has imposed 10% tariffs on goods from China, starting on Tuesday. During a news briefing with reporters on Saturday, Trudeau said he had not spoken to Trump since his inauguration. Trump said Americans could feel some "short-term pain" from the emerging trade war. "But long term, the United States has been ripped off by virtually every country in the world," he said, adding that the U.S. had trade deficits with "almost" every country. "We're going to change it," Trump affirmed. "It's been unfair." Edited February 5 by Stuart Galbraith
rmgill Posted February 5 Posted February 5 (edited) 42 minutes ago, R011 said: You mean the whole 43 pounds seized last year compared to over twenty thousand pounds seized coming from Mexico!? How much was not seized? If its not being interdicted at all… Do you really trust Trudeau’s administration of the border? Stuart, what are the tentative US Canada deal terms? Edited February 5 by rmgill
R011 Posted February 5 Posted February 5 48 minutes ago, rmgill said: How much was not seized? If its not being interdicted at all… Do you really trust Trudeau’s administration of the border? Stuart, what are the tentative US Canada deal terms? So you're saying US border patrol is massively incompetent. Well I suppose it's possible. The claim is that Canada is a major or the major supplier of fentanyl. We aren't.
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